Indesign CC2018 Table Graphic Cell separations issue

[Burban]

InDesign 13.0.1

Mac OS 10.13.1

When placing an Illustrator EPS vector file into a Table Graphic Cell, InDesign changes the artwork and sets some of the WHITE areas to overprint.

No lines or fills are set to overprint in Illustrator. InDesign and the PDF displays correctly, but once you view separations, all the hidden elements are viewable.

This does not happen when placing the same image on the page, or in a box in a table - only when placing an image in a Table Graphic Cell.

This has been confirmed by my Offset Printing supplier who picked it up on their RIP and noticed that the only some of the white areas had been set to OVERPRINT, hence showing the lines underneath. So, the Table Graphic Cell is changing the way imported EPS fills are being separated.

Not good.

Any ideas how to fix?

No overprint on the line.

No overprint on the white fill.

[Laubender]

Hi,

no idea how to prevent this…

But: Would that also happen if you placed an Adobe Illustrator *.ai file?

Could you upload the EPS to a Dropbox account and make it available for downloading?

I like to test this…

FWIW: Does the issue happen with InDesign CC 2015.4 and CC 2017.1 as well?

Regards,
Uwe

[Burban]

Hi, appreciate the reply.

Just re-saved the EPS to .ai and replaced and it worked fine. So isolated to EPS it appears. I did try different version of EPS and all were the same result.

I'm happy to package my test doc and links and upload to DB - link: Dropbox - Test Folder

This has only occurred now. I had no issues on older MacBook Pro, Mac OS 10.12.x and Adobe CC2017. I have, over Xmas, upgraded my MacBook Pro, Mac OS and Adobe to CC2018 and am just starting to do work and have noticed this issue.

I originally though it was a conversion issue, opening CC2017 and saving to CC2018. The I thought it might be the dreaded GPU issue (which yep, still waiting for a fix in that one too).

Please have a look at the test files and let me know if you can replicate. Am wondering if it's just me or is this a wider issue an no-one has picked it up as really, how many people review separations these days? Not many I reckon. I caught this as my client proofing system was displaying the error, even though the PDF and artwork viewed ok. Took me ages to figure this out it was Table Graphic Cells, simply through isolation of possibilities.

[Burban]

This is a sample page from the brochure I sent to my printer today, who ran it through their RIP and agreed that the white has been set to overprint. You can see the sample artwork selected and the dialog box.

This PDF was created as a Press PDF out of Indesign CC2018, just like I normally do.

This same brochure printed perfectly late last year from CC2017 and had none of these issues.

Hope this helps.

[Laubender]

Hi,

I can see the problem with your document.

But I cannot recreate the problem with a new table I did in a new document.

Placed the EPS in a graphic cell, turned on Overprint Preview with Separation View. The white area did not overprint.

Very strange…

If I copy/paste your table to a new document I can see the problem.

Also if I convert a text cell of your table to a graphic cell and place the EPS I can see the issue.

But never in one of my tables…

Maybe something has gone corrupt with that specific table?

FWIW: I would color the strokes of the illustration with 100 % K black.

As it is right now it's something different.

Regards,
Uwe

[Burban]

Hi Uwe, again, appreciate the fast reply.

The test doc I sent you was a brand new doc. The table was new and new images placed into it. Nothing was copied from the old doc. So the issue is occurring for me on old and new docs.

Are you on Mac? Do you have the same setup as me? I think it's important to see if it's mac / os / indesign common issue.

The fact that you can see the issue is good though, so I'm not going mad.

And yes, the lines prob should be 100% K.... freelancers.... had to find good help. This is all caught at the RIP and converted to 100% K there so it's not an issue for reproduciton. As I mentioned, I've printed literally 10's of thousands of these brochures over the years with these same graphics, tables and setup, never had an issue until now.

What is my next step do you think? Can I escalate to Adobe? Other option is to revert back to CC2017..... or try to find a way to figure out what's causing it.

[Laubender]

Hi,

I tested with InDesign 13.0.1.207 on Mac OS X 10.11.6 ( German ).

Even created a new table in your document and did not see the issue with that new table…

Let's see if others could recreate the issue on their systems.

Regards,
Uwe

[Burban]

Thanks for everything.

Can also now confirm same issue on new install of InDesign C2018 on a different MacBook Pro 10.12.6.

I'll have to consider moving my business back to CC2017. Maybe Adobe might see this one day and look at it, but if I'm the only one noticing it, chances are low.

Appreciate all your help.

[Laubender]

Hi Burban,

hm…

How are your color settings when creating that new document?

And did you install that new bug fix that was issued lately?

InDesign crashes while saving a file on a network drive

( Only to rule out some differences between your and my installation. )

The issue could also be that you are using a different localized version than I do.

Mine is German, yours could be English or English International perhaps…

Regards,
Uwe

[Burban]

Hi Uwe,

Colour settings are bog standard. I don't play with them at all as all the colour is controlled at the RIP for output and we've done our calibrations, so no need to change any default settings. I'd be surprised if the issue was in there, might be though. Why would it change white to overprint only in Table Graphic Cells though? It's almost like a Trap setting or preset? I'll do some tests with colour settings changed, to check that, as I really am lost at this stage.

The 10.13.1 install was done Dec last year.

The 10.12.6 install was done today.

There is no further update options in Creative Cloud for InDesign for either Os, so I assume I have the most current version. Am working off MacBook HD, not network.

Australian here, so using the UK or International version probably. I cannot see in the About box any specific version apart from 13.0.1.

I've spent considerable time now trying all different combinations, file formats, new, copy, paste, preferences, etc and I get the same result, on 2 different macs and 2 different os. Bizzare.

The fact you can replicate it, suggests the bug is in InDesign I think, else it would not do it all for you. Your OS is also 2 steps back from mine and you can still replicate it, so I doubt it's an OS update thing. It's also not occurring with a PDF saved from AI and placed in the Graphic Cell, so Postscript translation to IND should be working ok??? I also tried PS 2 and PS 3 out of AI - same result.

So what is triggering it? What is it about the Table Graphic Cells that is actually changing the way the file is interpreted, sees it as a problem, and then decides that changing it is the best course of action? Why does it not simply read the file as is? Why does it need to make changes to overprint setting on imported files?

Feels like a preference or some kind of actual 'feature' which is being tricked.

At a loss currently, but I'll keep hunting to see if I can solve it.

Cheers

Cam

[Laubender]

Burban  wrote

… There is no further update options in Creative Cloud for InDesign for either Os, so I assume I have the most current version.

Hi Cam,

unfortunately you are wrong on that.

I linked to a bug fix that was not distributed with Creative Cloud Desktop app.

Important: Installing it will not change the version number of InDesign.

FWIW: You'll get the exact full version number of InDesign if you hold the cmd key and go to "About InDesign".

My best bet for now is that a bug sneaked in with the Australian version of InDesign.

But we need more users that can see the bug on their system.

Btw: That I can see the bug is only possible, because I am using your table in my document.

I cannot recreate the bug outside of your table or a duplicate of your table.

Regards,
Uwe

[Burban]

Thanks Uwe,

I installed that updated. No change.

I did have some luck though. Kept playing around with combinations. Started with a WEB doc preset and new table, new Graphic Cell, import same image and view separations and it looks perfect. I then converted that same WEB doc to CMYK and the separations were also perfect. So starting with a RGB doc fixes it (so far).

Copying that table to a new CMYK doc also works perfect.

Starting a new PRINT doc and table is where the trouble starts, so maybe it is in the colour settings? Either that or graphics rendering?

Anyway, I think that is a work around - new RGB doc -> set tables -> import images to graphic cells -> convert to CMYK -> copy/paste into your existing job.

I'll do some more testing on live projects and if I find anything else, I'll update this thread.

Cheers for all your help mate - awesome stuff.

Cam

[Laubender]

Hi Burban,

looked into this bug again these days and found, that all elements in the placed EPS are overprinting!

All! Means: All fills, not only [Paper] fills, all strokes, all text.

InDesign will do that always when the EPS is placed inside a graphic cell.

You will not see the bug, if the EPS is placed as anchored object in a text cell or outside a table.

Also found, that a grayscale image from PhotoShop saved as EPS will behave the same way:

Not so if you saved the image as TIFF:

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )