table shifts L > R when it crosses page boundary

[Nedlaw]

Hi. I'm seeing an unwanted inset or shift to the right on a table that crosses page boundaries. I've played with the paragraph defintion on which the table sits (removing its first-line indent), but while that fixes page 2, it changes the inset of page 1. I haven't run into this before with tables; their insets have always behaved well across page boundaries. Looking for insight and help straightening this out.

Background:
I'm developing a layout per client's request in the form of a table on a landscape page. The table has numbered instructions in the left column, a "gutter" column in the middle, and a right-hand column for a screenshot. The general layout of the table is like this:

Of course, the big graphics allow only one or two rows on a page. The graphics push the table rows on to subsequent pages.

The guides arrangement is a little complex. Here is an annotated diagram:

What happens is that when all table rows fit on page 1 (before inserting a bunch of graphics) the cells of the table line up as expected. When ID moves rows to page 2, the table is indented .25 inch and I can't seem to reposition it.

The paragraph definition the table sits on uses a .25" first line indent. When this is removed, page 2 lines up appropriately -- but returning to page 1, the table is now out-dented to the left by .25". It seems that either I can have an as-designed alignment on page 1 or an as-designed alignment on page 2, but not both at the same time.

Here is the change that occurs when the second row of the table is sent across the page boundary:

I have not run into this previously. When tables have extended across page boundaries for me in the past, they have adopted the same alignment -- and they have been carried by the same paragraph definition I'm using here.

Both page 1 and page 2 use the same master with the same guides and the same paragraph and text-column definitions. Afraid I'm mystified.

Thanks for any help.

[Anna Lander]

What is the alignment of the paragraph where the table lays in? It seems that it's aligned around spine, so on even page it comes left and on odd page it comes right. It might be the case.

[Nedlaw]

The alignment of the paragraph is left with a .25 first-line indent. There is no spine. The document is a series of single pages. There is a "gutter" in the middle to divide the left column of table from the right, but not a true column gutter. (as in a 2-col layout). I confess I'm mystified. I've used variations on this template before and not had a table do this when crossing page boundaries.

[Anna Lander]

could you please put somewhere a sample file (3-4 pages with this settings and table)? If content is sensitive, change it to Placeholder. It's quite difficult to say somethingwithout seeing some more panels and settings and too long to ask you for details which can remind one by one 🙂

[Nedlaw]

Will do. This may take a short while. I appreciate any help, Anna_Lander.

[Nedlaw]

Actually, this is not readily doable. Too much formatting, too much material on the master pages. It would be like re-laying it out. I appreciate the help... but...

[Anna Lander]

Just save a copy and delete all pages besides 3-4 first. Without images the text is safe enough from any unwanted sharing.

[Nedlaw]

Okay. Will try to attach them -- the new format in the forum makes it clumsy to reply and attach anything, but I will try. Appreciate any help. -j

[Nedlaw]

Interesting.... once I took out the graphics, the table lines up correctly on subsequent pages.

[Nedlaw]

Even more interesting: The file I sent you behaves 100% as expected. My working file, however -- that still includes the material I deleted -- behaves in the odd way of offsetting the table on p2. The problem is not apparently the size of the graphic. Something else odd is going on.

[Nedlaw]

And more interesting: I deleted the table, made sure my text block was as I wanted it, then re-inserted a new table... and it's offsetting Exactly as described.

[Barb Binder]

Hi Ned:

I guess I'm not understanding the question. When I extend the table to the second page, the numbers continue to line up on the decimal point. What am I missing?

~Barb

 

[Nedlaw]

You ask "What am I missing?" Boy, I'm asking the same question. Anna_Lander asked me to produce a simplified file (a couple of pages). I did that and posted it -- I deleted several pages that came before the table, and several that came after it. I deleted text and graphics. SOMETHING that I deleted was causing the problem, because -- just as you saw -- the sample file works perfectly. But my source file, that still contains all the text and graphics and pages that I deleted? That does NOT work perfectly. Just as in my original post, when the table is extended to the second page, it indents .25 inches. Something I got rid of is causing the problem... and I can't (yet) figure out what.

[Anna Lander]

Does it appear only on page 2? As far as I can see, all the text (and the next paragraph also) moves right. May i be that there is some invisible object with text wrap here?

[Barb Binder]

Ok. Well, if you aren’t comfortable sharing the original file with us, how about deleting one item at a time to narrow down which one is causing the issue?

~Barb 

[Nedlaw]

That's a good differential diagnosis technique. I sort of cut the Gordian Knot -- I separated the first part of the document from the section with the table, and the table APPEARS to be working correctly. What in the first few pages of the document resulted in the table offsetting on the next page? I don't know yet. I do have to get to the bottom of this, because there are going to be many more tables like this in this project, and they can't each be in their own file.

[Barb Binder]

Hi Ned. I am happy to take a look at the original file if you are comfortable sharing it. 

~Barb

[Nedlaw]

Thanks... but I've done major surgery on the original file, trying to make things work. I've separated the introductory material from the table section, and now the table works. But it's left me with an unsolved problem (and created a different one that I won't bore you with). Yes, I'd be happy to send you the original file, but I didn't save it -- just separated the two parts. My bad. There isn't much in the first part, but there IS an anchored frame, although I have had anchored frames before tables previously. Doing more experimentation and diagnosis. Next step: not a new file, but separating the text stream, so that the pages continue, but the text block restarts. I will post any results. Thanks to all for your help. This has been a real bug.

[Nedlaw · Accepted solution]

This was a subtle, but ham-handed error. When ID creates a new page, it fills the margins with text box automatically. However, my high-concept text box is indented .25 inches from the left margin (don't ask). Thus, when ID creates the next text box everything moves over.

The correct solution (and there is time for me to implement it) is to readjust the left margin so that it is .25 indented to where I want it, and then readjust the two or three paragraph definitions that currently matter so that they look the same as I want them to look, but conform to that automatic text box creation by ID.

I discovered this by showing text threads and finding out that ID had two super-imposed text boxes: the one it created automatically and the one I placed on the page. The text was going into the automatic box, apparently. The green layer lines were very faint, so difficult to distinguish on the big 4K monitor.

Thanks to everyone. Not a bug, but I was not dealing correctly with the product.