What is the best monochrome laser printer for page proofs?

[jonquiljo]

I can't seem to find anything recent on this.

I am working on the page layout of my wife's book, and wonder what is a good monochrome laser printer (in 2019!) to use?  I gather that the best printer for proofs (since the files will be sent to a printer/binder for eventual printing) should have Adobe Postscript 3.

I have looked everywhere online for a good monochrome laser printer with Adobe PS 3 - but most have some kind of PS emulation.  The few that I can find that have actual Adobe PS 3 are all given poor ratings at many e-commerce sites.  In fact, most printers seem to get poor ratings these days.

I want to get as good a representation of the actual printed page output as possible.  It does matter if a "." is in the right place - to an author.  Any ideas?  Anything currently produced printer work well for anyone else?  Thanks.

[Derek Cross]

Export your InDesign document to PDF/X-4 and use that print to any decent laser printer - that should be fine for your purposes.

When you come to send your files to your printer they should give you a spec, if not select the above, select single pages (not spreads) include Crop marks and tick Use Document Bleed Settings and the output profile you’ve selected for your file.

[jonquiljo]

Thanks.  My problem is that "the author" is a perfectionist about her work.  A character even 1/4mm out of place from proof to actual printing is not acceptable to her - and she will notice it.  She is using multiple fonts as well. This is her 12th book and we have seen virtually everything that can and will go wrong.  Given that this is self-published for pleasure (and certainly not for profit!), I can understand why she wants things just so.

PDF output is not 100% precise from one output device to another.  Many print companies still take .indd files too.  Why has Adobe taken the easy way out with ID?  "Close enough" is not really why many people use ID in the first place, even for basic text.  Surely there has to be a better way.  Some laser printers use Adobe PS 3, while many others use an "emulation" of PS - again looking for trouble.  No reliable Adobe PS printers available today?  We have a couple of old Laserjet 2100M's around here (1200x1200) with PS 1.  I'd go with one of those if they worked with Mac OS X.14 - but they apparently won't.

[Derek Cross]

The printer you give the InDesign files will be converting them to PDF.

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com · Accepted solution]

jonquiljo  wrote

PDF output is not 100% precise from one output device to another.  Many print companies still take .indd files too.  Why has Adobe taken the easy way out with ID?  "Close enough" is not really why many people use ID in the first place, even for basic text.  Surely there has to be a better way.  Some laser printers use Adobe PS 3, while many others use an "emulation" of PS - again looking for trouble.  No reliable Adobe PS printers available today?

Exporting to PDF/X-4 is the industry's most precise standard and is used by top publishers and print shops around the world.

The settings you choose as you export the PDF have an effect on consistent quality across all devices. The main ones are:

• PDF-Print (not interactive)
• Resolution of graphics (we recommend 400ppi)
• Color (we recommend Convert to Destination - Preserve Numbers, but then you have to know what the destination is: Sheetfed, web, coated, uncoated, etc.)
• Embedding of all fonts, subsetting when less than 100% are used.

Of course, the printer in your laser printer will be different from the final paper used at the print shop.

When printing that PDF to a professional printing press at a quality print shop, the PDF is ripped with a pro-quality Raster Image Processor, which is far more superior than anything you can produce from an office-quality (or even graphic-design quality) laser printer.

If you want to have better output that more closely matches professional printing, you'll have to invest in a pro-quality laser or inkjet printer. But even then, you'll see some variation in color and fine imaging of type; mostly due to the fact that a toner molecule is much larger and clunkier than the molecules in professional printer inks. Higher-resolution laser printers use a finer toner (with smaller molecules) which produce clearer type. And the printer's built-in RIP will make different "decisions" about where to lay down those dots than a pro-quality RIP at the print shop.

With that, we've had good success with OkiData's professional quality laser printing "production" presses (a large laser printer but with the finer quality controls). We've used the C931e for 4 years and its quality has been exceptional for us (print on demand books). This webpage lists newer models: https://www.oki.com/us/printing/products/light-production/index.html​.

For your needs, I'd look for these features:

• 1200 dpi
• Adobe PostScript 3

Be sure the word "Adobe" appears in the manufacturer's description: it's trademarked so no one can use it with non-Adobe PostScript or other processing software.  I'm not sure "PostScript" is trademarked anymore and I frequently see it used for non-Adobe products.

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

*&^%$# spell checker!

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Bevi+Chagnon+%7C+PubCom  wrote

Of course, the printer in your laser printer will be different from the final paper used at the print shop.

That should be: the PAPER in your laser printer will be different ...

[jonquiljo]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Bevi+Chagnon+%7C+PubCom  wrote

The settings you choose as you export the PDF have an effect on consistent quality across all devices. The main ones are:

• PDF-Print (not interactive)  (thanks, I will do this)
• Resolution of graphics (we recommend 400ppi) (OK .. not hard to do)
• Color (we recommend Convert to Destination - Preserve Numbers, but then you have to know what the destination is: Sheetfed, web, coated, uncoated, etc.)  (will ask the printer, but likely not needed)
• Embedding of all fonts, subsetting when less than 100% are used. (will do)

Of course, the printer in your laser printer will be different from the final paper used at the print shop.  

When printing that PDF to a professional printing press at a quality print shop, the PDF is ripped with a pro-quality Raster Image Processor, which is far more superior than anything you can produce from an office-quality (or even graphic-design quality) laser printer.

....

For your needs, I'd look for these features:

• 1200 dpi
• Adobe PostScript 3

(Again, thanks.  I found an OKI consumer printer that is monochrome and will fit the bill.  I found B&H Photo Video (printer link) which seems to fit the bill.  Just need to check if it's compatible with OS X 10.14.  Any thoughts?)

Be sure the word "Adobe" appears in the manufacturer's description: it's trademarked so no one can use it with non-Adobe PostScript or other processing software.  I'm not sure "PostScript" is trademarked anymore and I frequently see it used for non-Adobe products.

Thanks very much.  The book is B&W, so it only needs a monochrome printer.  I understand that the paper it will be proofed on is totally different than what it will be printed on.  If it's B&W, the layout is all that really matters.  I know local printout will vary from press copy - but it can't hurt to get as close as possibly can.  Since it will be offset  printed, I understand the laser output will never be the same.  The cover is color, but the ultimate proofing of that is to literally stand there as they run the cover stock.  Offset presses will eat up a lot of paper until they get the color right.  It's generally art, which is hard to reproduce - but it can be done correctly if you micromanage things.

What I used to do is give the Indesign files (before that it was Pagemaker!) to the printer and they can get from them what they want.  Usually there is ID file of the cover, and another of the text.  This time we are likely going to have over 250 pages (poetry book), and printers don't like to eat costs if they ruin them.  Since it will likely be well over $20K out of my pocket, I try to do my best.

So thanks ...

[Dov Isaacs]

@jonquiljo,

Unfortunately, you are not giving us much to go on in terms of your full needs and expectations other than the words “perfection” and “precision”.

Some thoughts that may or may not assist here:

There is a big difference in cost and often quality between an informal desktop printer that can only support US Letter & Legal paper versus a professional one that supports US Ledger (and perhaps 12"x18") paper. If you need to show bleed and trim marks for US Letter size pages, then you need the larger size printer, for example, and be prepared to pay much more!

You also need to understand that there are fewer and fewer monochrome-only laser printers out there. There is very little demand for them except for very low end tasks (such as printing receipts at hotels, etc.) As such, the manufacturers primarily feature full color printers and MFPs (Multiple Function Printers including scanners and optional FAX). And ironically, the color models are not that much more than monochrome, although the color toners can be very pricey.

I don't know what printers you are referring to in terms of “the few that I can find that have actual Adobe PS 3 (sic) are all given poor ratings at many e-commerce sites.” If you need a monochrome printer with Adobe PostScript 3, you might want to take a look at printers such as the Xerox VersaLink B400 or B600 series printers. These seem to have reasonable reviews.

Regardless of what printer you use, it is an absolutely awful idea to print directly from InDesign or for that matter to provide InDesign documents (along with fonts, images, etc.) to print service providers. As advised earlier in this thread, the most reliable printed output from InDesign is to export PDF/X-4 (don't flatten transparency or convert colors). For proofing, print the PDF/X-4 file from Acrobat to your printer. For production, send the PDF/X-4 file to your print service provider. PDF/X-4 is the international standard for highest quality printing and recommended by all professional printer manufacturers (supporting direct PDF printing – professional printers directly print PDF and don't convert to PostScript anymore) and professional print associations both in the United States and around the world.

In terms of “perfection” and “precision,” the PDF/X-4 export and print from Acrobat will properly place and generally render the content as you could or would expect the final printing to yield. Characters won't appear in different locations or look different. That having been said, there are differences between all RIPs and DFEs as well as the physical printers themselves. The contents will be in the correct places and the fonts will render the same, but tonal curves, screening of images and vector fills, etc. do differ between different presses and printing technologies – offset versus toner versus commercial inkjet, etc.

          - Dov

[jonquiljo]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Dov+Isaacs  wrote

@jonquiljo ,

You also need to understand that there are fewer and fewer monochrome-only laser printers out there. There is very little demand for them except for very low end tasks (such as printing receipts at hotels, etc.) As such, the manufacturers primarily feature full color printers and MFPs (Multiple Function Printers including scanners and optional FAX). And ironically, the color models are not that much more than monochrome, although the color toners can be very pricey. (the irony here is that I don't need a printer and am running out of space for one.  I personally tend not to print much!)

I don't know what printers you are referring to in terms of “the few that I can find that have actual Adobe PS 3 (sic) are all given poor ratings at many e-commerce sites.” If you need a monochrome printer with Adobe PostScript 3, you might want to take a look at printers such as the Xerox VersaLink B400 or B600 series printers. These seem to have reasonable reviews.

(I will check these out, Thanks!)

In terms of “perfection” and “precision,” the PDF/X-4 export and print from Acrobat will properly place and generally render the content as you could or would expect the final printing to yield. Characters won't appear in different locations or look different. That having been said, there are differences between all RIPs and DFEs as well as the physical printers themselves. The contents will be in the correct places and the fonts will render the same, but tonal curves, screening of images and vector fills, etc. do differ between different presses and printing technologies – offset versus toner versus commercial inkjet, etc. (Thanks .... Yes, I understand that most variables cannot be controlled.  I'm just looking for the closest approximation to reality as I can.  Even then it can be amazing as to how many "artifacts" you can find in a printer-proof that need to be fixed.  I'd hate to add any of my own.  Someone mentioned spell check.  That is done many times by many people.  Even then, we've seen them come through.  Even samples of the printed signatures are proofed - and on more than one occasions, we've had to have them re-printed.  Given that the biggest mistakes in book printing are generated by the binderies - I should lighten up a bit.)

          - Dov

[Migintosh]

This Wikipedia entry will tell you a little about PostScript, but what might be informative would be if any technically-minded users (or Adobe insiders) could comment on whether PostScript is still needed in today's PDF world. We've moved on from PostScript fonts and eps graphics…what about PostScript for printers?

PostScript - Wikipedia

EDIT: I see that Dov has weighed in since I started typing.

[Derek Cross]

If your author insists on an accurate copy, why not print one complete copy of the whole book including binding – Blurb will do that and it's relatively inexpensive (cheaper than a laser printer!): Getting Started | Blurb