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P: When changing presets the profile resets back to Adobe standard, even if profile isn't checke

Explorer ,
Apr 03, 2018 Apr 03, 2018

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It has some terrible bugs in it. When changing presets the profile resets back to Adobe standard, even if profile isn't checked within that preset. It is making editing a real pain.
LR is also crashing. Please fix these bugs quick as I have tons of work to get done!
Is it possible to roll back a version? 7.3 can't be used in this state.

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64 Comments
Participant ,
Apr 24, 2018 Apr 24, 2018

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Looks like it should be fixed now: https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/help/whats-new.html Can anyone confirm that? Thanks.

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Explorer ,
Apr 24, 2018 Apr 24, 2018

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Yes. I did install and the core bugs seems to be fixed.

  • Preset sorting seems to be corrected.
  • The bug that was resetting presets from BW seems to be fixed.
  • No ability has been added remove the rest of the built-in presets
  • An option to disable the full image preview when you mouse over a preset has still not been added. This seems to make things run very slow.

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Explorer ,
Apr 24, 2018 Apr 24, 2018

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YAY!

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Explorer ,
Apr 24, 2018 Apr 24, 2018

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Man, I just had to hold my thought for a few more hours... THANKS!!

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Explorer ,
Apr 24, 2018 Apr 24, 2018

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Thank you, I will after this edit. Does this also sort the issues with Midicontrollers? do they now work again too? Thank you

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Explorer ,
Apr 25, 2018 Apr 25, 2018

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There's still a (related) bug that reverts a BW profile to Adobe Standard BW:  

If using a B&W profile that allows B&W Mix (Adobe Monochrome, legacy bw, etc...) and you turn off the B&W Mix (with the switch), the profile switches to Adobe Standard BW and you have to manually change it back.

Also, perhaps not entirely related, but if anyone knows an answer I'd appreciate it!!
When creating a profile using Adobe Monochrome (or any BW profile that allows B&W Mix), you are only allowed to use the B&W Mix sliders once and then it is grayed out.  If you use the B&W mix sliders inside a profile, the panel will be grayed out in the develop module.  If you don't use the B&W mix sliders in the profile, the panel will be available in the develop module.  Anyone know if this is expected behavior?  I really hope it's a bug too...

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Participant ,
Apr 27, 2018 Apr 27, 2018

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So it is still bugged? Anyone reproduce this bug? I want to know to avoid downgrading again.

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Adobe Employee ,
May 01, 2018 May 01, 2018

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@laura Kent

I cannot follow your steps here: "When creating a profile using Adobe Monochrome (or any BW profile that allows B&W Mix), you are only allowed to use the B&W Mix sliders once and then it is grayed out.  If you use the B&W mix sliders inside a profile, the panel will be grayed out in the develop module." Is it possible you meant 'creating a preset' and not a profile? If not, can you give step-by-step instructions to reproduce what you are seeing?
Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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Explorer ,
May 01, 2018 May 01, 2018

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Hi Rikk,
   I did mean profile.  
1.  Open a raw image in camera raw.
2. Choose adobe monochrome as the (camera) profile
3. Under the Black & White Mix tab, adjust the sliders (example: red-10, orange-15)
4. At the bottom of the Preset tab, you'll see a "new preset" icon. If you option+click that, it'll bring up the New Profile menu.   (I know I'm using "preset" and "profile", but I'm not using them interchangeably...)
5. Make sure the black and white mix is checked, name your profile and choose the set.
6. Click OK.
7. Cancel your edit to close Camera Raw.  

8. Open Lightroom (If already open- close and re-open so you can see your new profile)
9. Choose an image and go to Develop Module
10. Find and apply your new profile.
11. Try to adjust the B&W Mix and you'll see that it is grayed out.

12. Repeat with any Legacy profile, including Adobe Standard BW and same thing happens.
13.  However, if you DON'T include the B&W mix in your profile (sliders remain at 0), the B&W mix will be available to use in the develop module in Lightroom.  It seems you can only use them once: either in your profile, or in the develop module.

My point is that this isn't "normal" behavior for profiles.  If I add a tone curve to a new profile, I still have access to the tone curve in Lightroom's develop module. Same with exposure, highlights, etc.  I'm sure there are limits- If I use -100 in highlights for a profile I don't know that the develop module will still have -100 to give.  But I'm not maxing out any limits with my B&W mix adjustments, and I can only use it once.

-----
Now I am going to switch to Presets (and still profiles), because there's another problem:
When creating presets (within Lightroom), the Treatment and Profile should be SEPARATE options and not automatically selected when Color or B&W mix are selected .  As of now, any preset that includes the B&W mix or HSL sliders AUTOMATICALLY includes the Current Profile and Treatment by default.  If I have several B&W mix presets that I want to be able to use with any of the many new B&W profiles, I have to make separate presets for each profile.  It's an exponential problem.

Let me say that I think I understand why they are connected:
•If only the treatment is attached to a preset with a B&W mix and the current image is in color, Lightroom doesn't just turn it into b&w anymore- it needs to change the profile.  Where treatment is, so must profile be.

But IT'S A PROBLEM. As it is now, there's could be an exponential need for more presets to cover the various combinations of B&W Mixes/HSL adjustments and profiles.  
Example with only 2 mixes and 2 profiles:
preset 1: Chocolate B&W profile with B&W mix "1"
preset 2: Chocolate B&W profile with B&W mix "2"
preset 3: Custom B&W "1" profile with B&W mix "1"
preset 4: Custom B&W "1" profile with B&W mix "2"

Now multiply that by all the B&W profiles available (or the ones you use) and then again by the different B&W mixes you use.  Then again for the various color profiles you may want to use and the different HSL adjustments you like.  It can be overwhelming.

My solution:
Let US CHOOSE whether or not to attach a specific profile to a preset that has B&W Mix or Color adjustments (HSL) knowing that:
1. In the event of a mismatch (i.e. the current image is color and you select a b&w preset with no profile attached) the preset will either do nothing OR use the default B&W/Color profile.
2. If the treatment of a preset (b&w or color) is the SAME as the current image and no profile is attached to the preset, the current image's profile will not be affected.  

This way one can create various combinations of presets and not have to duplicate them for each profile in the event the B&W mix/HSL adjustments are used.

----
Bottom line-
1. I think something's wrong with the B&W mix inside profiles that is shutting off the ability to make further B&W mix adjustments when a B&W mix is included in the profile.

2. Treatment and Profile NEED to be separated within the preset options, and we should have an option to NOT include the current Profile in a preset where B&W mix or Color Adjustments are selected.  Lightroom would need to change the default behavior ONLY in the event of a treatment mismatch (i.e. a b&w preset with a color image and no profile attached to the preset); I suggest it does nothing or the default profile is used.

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Explorer ,
May 01, 2018 May 01, 2018

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It's a lot less bugged than it was.  It's useable.  Still workarounds for some things, but I like this version's profiles and previews, so it's a no brainer for me to suffer through it...

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Community Expert ,
May 02, 2018 May 02, 2018

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In another thread somebody found that applying a preset did reset transformations, even if that preset didn’t do anything on transformations. We eventually found what caused this: if you have an old preset, it may contain “ProcessVersion = 6.7”, even if this preset was converted to xmp. Use a text editor and change this to “ProcessVersion = 10.0” (or remove this line completely). That may solve these kinds of resetting problems.
-- Johan W. Elzenga

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Explorer ,
May 02, 2018 May 02, 2018

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Johan, you said "...applying a preset did reset transformations" 

What do you mean by transformations?  Reset Profiles?  Reset Development adjustments/changes?

As far as I can tell the only time profiles are being reset improperly now is when you turn off the B&W mix with the switch.  The same thing does not happen for color profiles when you switch off the color/HSL adjustments.

Presets that included the profile when they were created rightfully switch the profile of the current image. Because of that, I do think there should be a change in the way the treatment and profile are automatically selected when B&W mix or HSL is included in a preset.  I think treatment and profiles should be separate, and I think that profiles should not be automatically checked for presets.  

Presets are not resetting profiles when profiles are not included in the preset (as designed).  I argue that when saving presets, the treatment and profile options should not be combined and the profile should not be automatically selected when creating a preset with either B&W mix or HSL adjustments.   Implementing this would mean addressing the reasons (I suspect) they are currently grouped together and automatically selected when B&W mix or Color adjustments are included in a preset:  In the event there is a treatment mismatch between a preset with no profile included and the image. (i.e in the event a preset with b&w mix, b&w treatment, and no profile is applied to a color image).  I suggest in those events, the preset either does nothing (since without changing the profile the other adjustments would not be available) or Lightroom selects a default profile with the same treatment as the preset.

Examples: 
(assuming treatment and profile are no longer together, and profile is not automatically selected when creating presets with B&W mix/HSL adjustments)

1. Current image: Adobe Color profile (treatment: color)
Preset: includes B&W mix, treatment (black & white), and NO profile.
Problem:  Treatment mismatch between current image and preset
Solutions: ONLY in situations where there's a treatment mismatch between the current image and a preset without a profile included, Lightroom will choose to:
1) do nothing 
2) Choose a default profile that matches the treatment in the preset (adobe Monochrome)
Add a warning if you must explaining what will happen if there's a treatment mismatch and no profile is selected.  But this is a better option than being forced to create duplicate presets for each profile.

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Community Expert ,
May 02, 2018 May 02, 2018

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"Johan, you said "...applying a preset did reset transformations" 
What do you mean by transformations?  Reset Profiles?  Reset Development adjustments/changes?"

I meant transformations. The thing you do in the Transform block, like Guided Upright. That's not important however. What is important is that some adjustments were reset, and that the ProcessVersion stored in the preset turned out to be the culprit.
-- Johan W. Elzenga

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Explorer ,
May 06, 2018 May 06, 2018

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LATEST
There's still problems with the presets resetting things they aren't supposed to reset...  Besides my 2 non-addressed issues above, I've realized that if a profile is set at any amount other than 100, selecting any preset that DOES NOT include the profile resets the profile amount to 0.  This is frustrating.  If I want a preset to affect the profile, I'd select it when I saved it.  

Can this stay open?  Do we need a new topic for each preset issue?

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