P: Preset works all the time with raw files but only some of the time with a JPG file

[Bob Somrak]

Lightroom 7.3 and osx 10.13.4

First, I would like to note that this is not the same as RAW and non-RAW specific presets.  In this case the preset does work with both RAW and JPG files, just not consistently.   

A preset in certain scenarios will work ALL the time with a RAW but only works SOME of the time with a JPG

Create a preset using the following method

Select photo and do a RESET so no settings are applied
Create a Preset called ZeroSaturation   (I think this can be any slider)
Save the preset with ONLY Saturation selected 

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DO THE FOLLOWING WITH BOTH  RAW AND JPG FILES

Select photo
Do a RESET
Apply a Saturation that is not Zero
Apply the ZeroSaturation Preset.   (The Preset works with BOTH JPG and RAW)
Apply Dehaze
Apply Clarity
Select Dehaze
Apply the ZeroSaturation preset. (The Preset did NOT work the JPG)


History on RAW
As you can see the preset works all the time on the RAW.  When you execute the preset on the Dehaze step the history is cleared above Dehaze and the preset is executed and registered as a history step
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History on JPG.    
As you can see the preset works on the JPG when the saturation is not zero but it does not not execute when the saturation is zero.  When you select Dehaze and execute the preset the history above Dehaze is Not cleared and the preset is not registered in history.  APPARENTLY NOTHING HAPPENS.  
RackMultipart201804164461eeyka-36ec5049-a1eb-4f05-8c94-c353e60d715d-131261697.jpg


I realize Saturation is already ZERO and the preset is not needed but the the behavior should be the same for both JPG and RAW and the preset should execute and be registered in history when pressed..   The JPG behavior is very disconcerting to the user because NOTHING happens.

[Yves-CH]

Hello, you must always check "Process Version" because some commands are only available on the latest versions!

[Bob Somrak]

Thanks for the reply but that is not the case here.  All the files are process version 4 and you can create the above preset from a JPG and check SATURATION and PROCESS and the bug still happens. 

As you can see from the screen shots the Preset will work on  RAW all the time but it only works on the JPG some of the time.  Its not that the preset doesn't work on the JPG.   The behavior should be consistent.  Its very disconcerting to the user when you press a preset and nothing happens.

[johnrellis]

I get the same results -- strange bug.

[Bob Somrak]

Thanks John for taking the time to confirm this. It’s an obscure bug and probably won’t get fixed but it is disconcerting when it happens.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Do you still see the behavior in 7.3.1? 

[Bob Somrak]

Thanks for the reply Rikk
Yes, the behavior is still in 7.3.1.    A given preset will work all the time on RAW but but only SOMETIMES on JPG and further tests show they only work SOMETIMES on TIFF also.  When it quits working on JPG and TIFF files is when the preset setting are the same as in the file.  For instance, in the above examples the preset just sets the saturation to ZERO.  If the saturation is not zero it works on JPG and TIFF files so its not that the preset never works.  If the saturation is zero than it just doesn't execute.  It will execute on a RAW if the saturation is zero.  It is VERY disconcerting to the user when you press a preset and NOTHING happens and in this case where the preset is not file type specific it should work the same in both cases.  It is easy to create a repeatable condition to make this happen so it should be easy for the developers to isolate the cause.  Just follow the above steps.  Thanks again for your attention on this issue.  The new stuff with Profiles and Presets is GREAT and I guess this is just part of the growing pains.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Thanks for the update, Robert.  I am logging a bug on it. 

[Bob Somrak]

Thanks Rikk. Appreciate your help on this.  

[Bob Somrak]

Rikk

The behavior in the original post has changed in Lr 7.4 but it has changed for the worse.  Originally the behavior was correct for RAW files and random for non-RAW but now it is also random for RAW also and the behavior is VERY disconcerting to the user when they click a preset and nothing happens.  The issue is that if the settings in the Preset does not change any develop settings because the values are the same the preset will not execute.  In the following example the preset just changes the value of Clarity to +21.  If the clarity is not +21 the preset executes but if the value is already +21 it does NOTHING.  Its very disconcerting to the user to click a preset and not have it execute even though it changes nothing.  

This is a RAW file.  Same behavior on JPG and TIFF

Import file and change highlights and shadows



Select highlights and execute preset. "clarity 21"



change highlights and shadows again.   Select highlights and execute preset "clarity 21".  As you can see the preset is not executed.  


I think the preset should execute ALL the time to prevent the user from thinking something is wrong because NOTHING HAPPENS.

I appreciate your help on this.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Robert, 

This behavior - while changed perhaps was not fixed. The bug for this issue is still open. I have added notes that there is additional information in this thread. 

[Bob Somrak]

Thanks for the update Rikk

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Lightroom Classic CC 7.5 was released today and should address this issue.  If you don’t see the update in your Creative Cloud App, hit the [Ctrl/Cmd]+ [Alt/Opt]+[R] to force a refresh. 

Give the new version a try and let us know if it solves the issue. 

[Bob Somrak]

Hi Rikk,

I just tried this on 7.5 and scenario now works ALL the time on JPG files but is NOW broken on RAW files.  It is just the opposite of the original problem.  This is probably a bigger issue now as most people use Lightroom for RAW files and it is very disconcerting to not have a preset execute all the time.  To duplicate just change the original problem from RAW to JPG in all the examples.  It is 100% repeatable.  OSX 10.13.6 and Lightroom 7.5.  

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Thanks for the report, Robert. I am going to bring in one of the Lightroom Classic CC team to have a look. 

[Bob Somrak]

Thanks Rikk,  Its 100% reproducible and is easy to test so should be a easy fix.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Thanks for the report, Bob. Engineering has verified what you are seeing and reopened the issue. 

[Bob Somrak]

Thanks Rikk.

[Bob Somrak]

Rikk
This is still an issue in Lr 8.0

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

The thread is still marked "In Progress". When a fix is issued, we generally announce it in a post and set the thread to solved.

[Bob Somrak]

Thanks for the update.

[Bob Somrak]

Hi Rikk

Lightroom Classic 8.0 MacOS 10.13.6

I found another issue related to the original thread that is MORE than just disconcerting to the user but is a more serious problem.  This problem happens with ALL file types (The original problem NOW may affect all file types as Adobe supposedly tried to fix the issue and made it even worse as noted above.)

Create a preset that sets the Exposure to -1.50. and call it Minus Exp

Select 3 photos and reset all the adjustments.  (Notice the cat sitting up is the MOST SELECTED image.


Turn AUTOSYNC on

Apply Preset Minus Exp.  Al 3 photos will change which is the correct behavior.

 
Reset all the images again

Select only the sitting up cat and apply the preset Minus Exp


Select all the images again with AUTOSYNC still turned on with the sitting up cat as the MOST SELECTED image and apply preset Minus Exp


As you can see the preset DOES NOT EXECUTE.   This can be confirmed by looking at the History of the MOST SELECTED photo.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

I must be missing something in your steps, Robert.  I tried multiple times and in the last step, the remaining two images updated to use the -1.5 preset in all cases. 

The history on my system is correct also. 10.14.1

[Bob Somrak]

Rikk
I restarted the computer and tried this again and it still doesn't work in the last step.

The easiest way to try this is to do the following.



1.    Have a preset that only does the minus 1.5 exposure (it could be contrast, clarity etc)

2.    Start with 3 photos that have NO edits.  (They can have edits but it is easier to show if they are similar without edits)

3.    Select one photo and apply the preset. (it changes)

4     Make sure AutoSync is ON

5     Use Shift-Click to select a couple other photos making sure the photo selected in step 3 is still the MOST SELECTED

6.   Apply the preset.   (The other 2 don't change)

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

They change here.  

[Bob Somrak]

I changes for me if I do anything to the Most Selected photo that adds a history stemp before trying to apply it to the other 2 photos but it doesn't if the last history step in the Most Selected photo is the preset I am trying to apply.  I could send you a movie if that would help.