P: LR4 doesn't display point curve adjustments made in LR3

Report · Mar 06, 2012

After updating from LR3, LR4 has reset my tone curves. I use custom tone curves on almost every picture, and all my contrast treatments this way seem to have gone. Initially the previews were still the old ones, so I only noticed after opening several pictures in the develop module, just to see my meticulous tone curve adjustments be removed.

Is anyone else seeing this?

Report · Mar 24, 2012

I was interested to see that Michael Frye has encountered this problem as well and also reported success with the script.

Michael's youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZQps9...) reminded me of the power of curves that I used all of the time in Photoshop before LR2 and convinced me to use curves adjustment as a first step in LR3 (and now in LR4). I highly recommend Michael's video (it's free).

I began using curves in Photoshop routinely after reading Don Margulis' book "Professional Photoshop". I am delighted to find separate RGB curves available in LR4. Now, I'd love to get LAB as a second color space in addition to RGB (I've got some canyons that need better color contrast)!

Report · Mar 24, 2012

While I do agree that this whole issue was a pretty major bungle in LR4, I can understand why the above-posted script is the only available fix right now.

Other LR4 bugs have been reported to Adobe and I assume that they are trying to release a comprehensive LR4.1 update which will remedy a host of post-release bugs including, but not limited to, the tone curve issue.

Many folks out there are being affected negatively by other LR4 bugs which they, too, are holding their breath to see fixed with an LR4.1 update. Many of those people couldn't care less about tone curves not transferring, because they may very well not even use them.

So, yes... one one hand, Adobe seems downright neglectful and entirely lacking in a sense of urgency for not addressing the tone curve issue with an "official" update (only a "sort of official" script lodged in the depths of a bug report forum).

On the other hand, though, how many separate "bug fixes" should we expect them to release haphazardly as they work their way through all of the various bugs reported in LR4? I think it would be especially confusing and sloppy to just be pushing a dozen or two dozen sporadic bug fix patches out to Lightroom users in an effort to fix each and every bug as soon as humanly possible. The only reasonable and practical solution is to package a host of refined bug fixes in a single cumulative update (presumably LR4.1) which will address myriad bugs in one shot.

Again, the tone curve bug is a pretty sloppy mistake to have made it into LR4... I entirely agree. But it's happened... what's done is done... and the tone curve bug is surely not the only bug that has users here or there saying," C'mon!" But frantically patching these bugs on a one-by-one basis is just a very poor solution to these problems. Yes, it's rough for us LR4 users... and yes, I'm sure Adobe knows that... but what can they really do at this point besides address all the issues with a thorough update that tightens up the whole ship, so to speak? That's just where we're at right now. I would imagine that LR4.1 isn't too far off...

Report · Mar 25, 2012

Note to self: don't buy Version x.0 of Adobe software.

Report · Mar 25, 2012

Readers of this thread might be interested in a the following thread dealing directly with Adobe's poor handling of the issue titled:

"Failure to warn users of of damage to catalogues when upgrading to V.4"

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...

(any problems wit the link, please let me know)

Report · Mar 25, 2012

Having been in the position of dealing with enterprise software I have to say that Adobe's relatively public handling of this issue by having a company representative answer questions, work with the community on solution, and providing multiple alpha workarounds for testing is nothing short of phenomenal.

Bugs in software happen, and if you're affected by the bug, it can be frustrating.

The usual corporate response in this scenario (as was mentioned before by another commenter) is stonewalling, denial, silence, and eventually, maybe, a patch. In the meantime, huge frustration.

So hats off to Adobe for providing atypical, excellent customer service way beyond the norm in the industry for a consumer product, especially to customers who aren't paying megabucks for a service contract.

Since nothing is lost from the original catalog you can always go back to LR3 if you need a pristine copy of an image from your back catalog, and for affected images re-import them into LR4 when a fix is available.

Report · Mar 26, 2012

I agree entirely with Justin and John's comments above. Software development is complex. As far as I can tell, people at Adobe are not lazy or stupid. Sure, there was a goof, it happens, but by and large the communication has been swift and open, and Adobe provided an effective temporary resolution until v4.1. And let's not forget, the workaround script was provided by an actual real person with an actual name who actually took the time to engage with the community. Yes, communication could be improved, some advance warning of the issue would be good, but comms have been pretty good.

There are 3 points on which it is worth reflecting:
1. Many companies, as previously noted, do not have the desire or, frankly, the capability to issue temporary fixes like this. Even if an employee wanted to, in many companies the internal processes simply do not allow for ad hoc posting of scripts and hotfixes like this, I mean, it's quite a brave move right? What if it went wrong? Imagine the consequences. We should all thank our lucky stars that Adobe doesn't have 15 approval stages to put everything into a packaged release schedule, and that there is a willing community to test an alpha script to a reasonable level of robustness.

2. If we continually kick someone for trying to do a good job, what happens? Yep, they may well think "I can get this kind of abuse for a lot less work, so screw you". So constructive criticism is good, thanks for the work so far is good. Bashing people for trying to resolve things and throwing tantrums because everything should be perfect does not paint anyone in a flattering light.

3. As has been noted, compared to many other companies, this level of service is very good. Adobe in general are pretty good to deal with in my experience compared to many others. Companies that offer such service to consumers, especially those paying less than $200 for a product, are notable by their rarity. Most hide their telephone numbers in secret corners of their website, then hide their people behind mobius loops of "press 1 for this and 2 for that" menus. Adobe don't. Yes, Adobe is a big company and "should" be perfect. Well, the world isn't. Get over it. If you think this is bad, you are in for a lifetime of disappointment and pain. And for anyone thinking "if we don't complain it doesn't get better", I agree with you, but read point number 2 again.

Now, I've held off so far on upgrading. I've left that to some pathfinders who are braver and more knowledgable than me. Fair enough, my choice. I'm fine to do it now though so from my personal point of view:

A great big THANKS to Tom and the other helpful people on this forum. Good job, keep it up, onwards and upwards!

Scott

Report · Mar 26, 2012

I do now want the take the parts of Abobe in this thread or others (I'm a simple customer) but Failure to warn users of of damage to catalogues when upgrading to V.4" is a bit an overstatement in my opinion.
The original v3 catalogue is still intact after the upgrade to LR4 so....nothing is really lost.
Regards,
no-nic - Marco,

Report · Mar 26, 2012

I think this is the wrong approach:

"Hey, this is a software company.

They have sometimes reported in a forum. So please wait patiently. This is more and faster than one can expect from other software companies. "

What?

I like the Adobe products. The ideas behind it are really impressive.

But with the money and the know-how we can expect an interim release within two weeks. The script works, Adobe knows the problem.

Even a bug fix for just one mistake would be a good thing.

For example, because of this error, many still do not work with LR4.

The company I work for builds industrial control systems. We deliver sometimes with our own software. If we make a mistake, we must correct this error usually within three days.

If I buy a TV on the Internet and it is defective then I expect a replacement within two weeks.

I refuse to excuse everything with "it is a software company" and "it is complex". Sure it is.

But a workaround is not a solution. And this workaround is also quite questionable, because it is not always applicable. A script is no solution, too. It's a thing at your own risk and to help Adobe find a solution.

For a normal user, not a technology geek, it is not practical for the normal user who is not experienced with software issues and does not want to lose data. This user will only be scared.

I want to emphasize once again. I like Adobe, I like Adobe products.

But it could be worked a little faster. And for example, the manpower of Photoshop used for Lightroom, instead of publishing the beta and to pretend as if the situation is not so bad. The release was just too early.

Report · Mar 26, 2012

Sure, I understand your point of view. It could be worked a little faster, you're right. But it's ok. Not the best, not the worst, but ok. The point is that a lot of people around here have unrealistic views about what is possible. And I disagree that the release was too early. It was an error, it happens.

Based on my software dev experience in large organisations, I expect that the final fix is being rolled into v4.1 along with a bunch of other things (e.g. edit in external application, which doesn't work at all in some cases I understand, maybe an even bigger goof!). And for a consumer product that's probably better than lots of little fixes. But that's my educated guess based on experience, I might be completely wrong and not everyone will come to the same conclusion about what "might" be happening behind the scenes. So I agree that some clearer communication would help, like "we expect an update within x weeks and either run the script or (sorry) wait". Tom's idea of posting on the tech support blog was an excellent one - I don't think this has happened yet.

Report · Mar 26, 2012

"Software releases have bugs. It'll get fixed eventually" would be OK if this were free software (Linux, GIMP, etc) being developed and maintained by the community. But Adobe is a multi-million dollar multi-national business that makes very healthy profits selling software, and if a product is not fit for purpose when it's sold, the company needs to fix it PDQ.

Report · Mar 26, 2012

Yes, they should fix it PDQ, but that raises the question of exactly how fast PDQ really is... Is it two weeks ago? Is it yesterday? Is it tomorrow? Is it in two weeks? A month? The honest truth is that nobody here has any actual knowledge of what Adobe is working on and we have no real, concrete basis for determining EXACTLY how fast Adobe "ought to" have LR4.1 out. We are all just speculating because we are annoyed with this problem... and rightly so. But we are still just speculating.

The primary point of my post above was not really that Adobe ought to be simply excused. I entirely agree that the tone curve issue was a bungle-and-a-half. And it's definitely annoying.

My point, however, was that the tone curve issue is not the ONLY issue that Adobe is working on. There are plenty of other problem areas that I'm sure the Adobe team is trying to address... and it would stand to reason that LR4.1 won't be released until a number of bug fixes have been integrated.

Why is the release of LR4.1 taking so long? Well, that's a reasonable question. Consider this, though. With the bugs that have been found in LR4, people have ranted on and on (not just here, but mostly elsewhere) about how Adobe ought to be ashamed of itself for releasing its software too early. For shame, Adobe!

Yet here we are holding our breath, going," Ready yet? Ready yet? Ready yet? No???? Not yet? Well.... ready now? Now? Now?" We are just jumping out of our chairs to get them to push an update out the door as fast as humanly possible... the very thing that they've been criticized for with the release of LR4 to begin with. We criticize them for supposedly releasing LR4 too early... we criticize them for supposedly releasing LR4.1 too late. Translation: "Whatever Adobe does... they are wrong." I mean, really... that's what this boils down to. And if people feel that way, well... okay.

I'm simply saying that...yes, we have a right to be aggravated with the tone curve issue... but we still need to be reasonable about these things getting fixed. The developers at Adobe don't just grow bug patches on magical trees out back of Adobe HQ. They are working on it... and I hardly think that they are intentionally dragging their feet and PURPOSELY delaying LR4.1 (that wouldn't even make sense).

Is it not reasonable to think that they are ensuring that all the various bug fixes in the future LR4.1 are rigorously examined and work well so that LR4.2 won't need to be released only a month afterward?

Report · Mar 27, 2012

See Tom's announcement of a release later this week to address this:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...

Report · Mar 28, 2012

Tom/Jeffrey: With the update what will be the correct path to update catalogs? Can one just delete the LR4 catalog, upgrade to 4.1 (or whatever the version will be), and then reconvert an LR3.6 catalog? Will there be a prompt when opening LR4 with no catalog to update an existing LR3 catalog? A lot of us have gone back to using LR3.6 until the issues with LR4 are resolved.

Report · Mar 28, 2012

When you launch LR 4.x (whatever version the new build is) it should auto-correct an library that has already been converted. It creates a report/collection of the files where the curve was recovered. One of the LR engineers can give more specifics, but that's the short answer. I'm sure the release notes will cover this in more detail once it's released.

Report · Mar 28, 2012

Thanks, Jeffrey, that's good to know. I stopped using LR4 though after the problems were noticed and went back to LR3. So my catalog in LR3 is more recent than the one that was originally converted to LR4. What would be the correct way to start over with a fresh LR3->LR4 conversion?

Report · Mar 28, 2012

Yup. If you've been using a LR3 catalog, update that.

Report · Mar 28, 2012

The other point to the fix that I failed to mention, is the initial catalog conversion is fixed to avoid this problem in the first place. So it's a two part fix:

1) Prevent this issue from happening in the first place.
2) Auto-magically fix catalogs that have been affected.

Report · Mar 29, 2012

I have a sample catalog with one image with a Custom curve that the recovery script does NOT recover.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/M3...

Report · Mar 29, 2012

There's no picture in your catalog.

Report · Mar 29, 2012

There's no image file, but there's no need. You can open and convert the catalog just fine.

Or, you can put any dummy nef file there. The filename is DN_070211_010144_3231.NEF.

Report · Mar 29, 2012

Yes it converted OK.
And indeed the script did not recover.
But that's no fun if I can't see what it had to recover .

Report · Mar 29, 2012

Lightroom 4.1 is now available on Adobe Labs:

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/li...

Includes a fix for this issue, plus several other top issues and includes 5D Mk III support:

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/li...

Report · Mar 29, 2012

Hi Dorin,

Unfortunately, I can't verify this one way or another without the photo itself. With no photo file, the curve won't show, and dropping in a dummy does not suffice (Lightroom refuses to be fooled that my random nef is actually the missing file). If you could provide the photo file via yousendit as well, that would be great.

Also, some additional information would be helpful. What operating system are you on? And in this photo's history, I don't see any point curve adjustments, or develop adjustments of any kind that were performed in Lightroom. There are only two "from metadata" steps. Is this a photo that was originally adjusted in ACR, and then imported into Lightroom? Or is something else going on here? I think I need more context.

Thanks,
Ben

Report · Mar 29, 2012

Dorin,

I can see LR4.1RC converting the LR3 catalog correctly, but not correcting what went wrong when first converted with LR4.0.

How was the tone curve modified? Is it the result of an LR camera default?

Beat

Report · Mar 29, 2012

I tried the 4.1 RC, and it found only 1 image with a recovered point curve (completely wrong). I tried running the script mentioned previously, but to do that I had to revert back to Lightroom 4.0. I ran the script, and it found 3492 images with recovered point curves. Yes---that sounds about right.

However, when I update an image with a custom point curve to process 2012, it puts 16 separate points on my curve, which previously had only 2 or 3. This renders it COMPLETELY UNUSABLE if I want to tweak it further! As far as I know, Lightroom offers no way to move multiple curve points at a time. Unlike many raw developers, it offers very little for the custom curve user. And now it mangles my carefully adjusted curves with way too many points. What a mess.

At least I love the new highlight and shadow sliders....

Charlie

Adobe Community

P: LR4 doesn't display point curve adjustments made in LR3

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