P: Creating XMPs after import but before edits.

[Rukes]

On MacOS 14.2.1, with Canon R3 and CR3 RAW files.

I don't use catalogs at all, just drag and drop raw files into Library, then edit in Develop. Just loading a directory of RAW files in this version just automatically generates XMP files for no reason, an old bug I haven't seen for many many versons. 

As usual, XMP files should only be created when there are changes done to the RAW file, not just upon loading them in lightroom. It's a good system so I can edit galleries as needed, and then I can look in the directory and see if there are any photos I might have accidentally skipped over deleting by seeing there is no XMP associated with it. 

[GoldingD]

Double check your catalog settings, make sure the  xmp box shown below as checked is not checked

 and dang, an old catalog of mine, I need to undo that.

[Rukes]

I don't understand, it's supposed to be checked, the bug is that it happens with it enabled. If I uncheck it then XMP is disabled. 

[Sean McCormack]

If that's on, Lightroom creates an XMP. It's not on by default and it's not needed as everything is stored in the catalog. Unless you have specific reason for having it on, don't. Examples include sharing the files with others for editing, using with Bridge or for precuation in the very rare case of catalog corruption. 

[Rukes]

As stated in the original post, I do not use the catalog and I specifically rely on XMP sidecars. So I need it on to generate XMP files for my photos. 

[Sean McCormack]

Xmp doesn't just change for develop settings, it changes for anything related to the file. They have changed how the timing on these writes work as well over time, so it's not usually immediate. You may be seeing writes from previous work. 

Surely if you don't use catalogs at all, just using Bridge and Camera Raw would be a better option for you?  

[Rukes]

No, these are from immediate work with this version. XMP has always changed based on develop changes, not just "creating a XMP out of the blue upon loading" which was a confirmed bug many years ago that was fixed. 

No, neither would be better since I need all the advanced editing and filters Lightroom Classic provides. Catalogs are pretty useless when you have 20 years of files and I can just archive them on a NAS when I am done. 

[GoldingD]

So, I am clearly confused.

You want xmp files or you do not want xmp files?

[Rukes]

I want XMP files but the bug is that Lightroom Classic is generating them upon loading the RAW file.

The way it has always worked with generating XMP files is that it doesn't get created until you start editing the RAW file. So an unedited RAW file does not have a XMP file while an edited one does. 

[Sean McCormack]

The irony is I have over 20 years of photos in my catalog. 

Have you tried backing up Preferences somewhere safe, then resetting them, turning XMP back on after and test with an unused folder? I appreciate the pain of resetting, so the back up is there to replace the newly created one if it doesn't work. It'll confirm that it's not Preferences being dubious.. a frequent occurrence. 

[GoldingD]

Oh, and please review:

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/metadata-basics-actions.html

One of the bit of confusion here, is LrC behavior towards writing xmp files. The behavior is different outside of the Develop Module as opposed to during mods in the develop module. If that catalog setting to Automatically write changes to XMP is on, then they are written at all stages, except for a change in the "when" in the Develop Module.

[Rukes]

Ah damn I think this could be it then, it says:

"Starting from the Lightroom Classic 13.0 release, we have changed the XMP writing frequency for the Develop module when Automatically Write Changes Into XMP is enabled."

Only thing is this did not happen in Lightroom 13.0 so it could be a separate bug. Testing it out, it imports the files in Library then automatically generates XMP files for every single file before any of the listed above occurs. So no changes in active image, no changing module, and not backgrounding or quitting the lightroom app. 

[GoldingD]

Ah damn I think this could be it then, it says:

"Starting from the Lightroom Classic 13.0 release, we have changed the XMP writing frequency for the Develop module when Automatically Write Changes Into XMP is enabled."

Only thing is this did not happen in Lightroom 13.0 so it could be a separate bug. Testing it out, it imports the files in Library then automatically generates XMP files for every single file before any of the listed above occurs. So no changes in active image, no changing module, and not backgrounding or quitting the lightroom app. 

By @Rukes

Sort of correct. thing is the XMP creation is still going on at Import if you have that catalog option on. Change is only frequency of LATER changes to XMP files during Develop.

[Rukes]

Well like I said before, Lightroom Classic has NEVER generated XMP at import with that option enabled on, so that IS new. As it says in the website, it was always generated once the RAW was being edited, but people complained that the constant saving of XMP's affected performance, so they made it so they just generate XMPs in general ahead of time, like smart previews. 

It's still 100% a bug that it generates XMPs at import according to that website.

[Sean McCormack]

It's still 100% a bug that it generates XMPs at import according to that website.

By @Rukes

@Rikk Flohr: Photography Any thoughts on this? 

[John R Ellis]

"Lightroom Classic has NEVER generated XMP at import with that option enabled on"

Hmm, I tested the following versions with Automatically Write Changes Into XMP enabled, and they all behaved the same, creating a .xmp sidecar when a raw file was first imported:

13.1, 13.0, 12.5, 11.5, 10.4, 9.1

The raw was from a Sony RX100 M7. 

In other words, I don't observe any change in behavior over the past four years. I'm not sure what might account for the difference in what you recall.

You could use the Creative Cloud desktop app to roll back to LR 12.0 to see if you observe the same thing I did.  (I have even older versions saved away for testing.)

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

The team is investigating a couple of inconsistencies between Mac and Windows regarding this issue. 

[Ronald30553178lwuv]

On my Mac (M3 Pro) with LRC 13.1 if "write sidecar files" is checked in prefrences when I import new raw files a sidecar is written for each one. It doesent matter if the import is set for "minimal", "Standard", 1:1, or "embedded with sidecar".

I have found a workaround by pausing writing sidecar files. This has drawbacks. If I forget to pause writing XML's then the unwanted files are written to my drive, or if I forget to reenable it then wanted sidecars are not written when editing.

[Ronald30553178lwuv]

Someone moved my post into the relevant preexisting thread almost instantly. Thank You.

[Rukes]

It could actually be a bug with Adobe Camera RAW with your testing. Because if you have the latest Camera RAW instaled and still downgrade your Lightroom, it's still interacting with that new version. This would account for older versions still having this issue when you tested them, when they didn't have the issue as the versions came out with their corresponding Camera RAW versions.

[John R Ellis]

"if you have the latest Camera RAW instaled and still downgrade your Lightroom, it's still interacting with that new version."

No, LR has its own version of the Camera Raw code built-in and doesn't use the downloaded Camera Raw component of Photoshop. You can prove that to yourself by uninstalling Photoshop and Camera Raw -- LR will continue to work correctly.

[Ronald30553178lwuv]

Are you running Windows or OS X. I didn't see these extra sidecars until I bought a Mac a month ago.

[John R Ellis]

"Are you running Windows or OS X. I didn't see these extra sidecars until I bought a Mac a month ago."

Mac OS 14.2.1.  Adobe employee Rikk Flohr indicated there may be a difference between Mac and Windows with this behavior, and I'll see if I can test some older versions on Windows later today.  But note that the original poster @Rukes is also on Mac OS 14.2.1. 

[John R Ellis]

I tested some Windows LR versions with Automatically Write Changes Into XMP enabled.  LR 13.1 creates a .xmp sidecar when a raw is imported, while 12.5.1, 12.0, and 6.0 don't. (I don't have access to other versions.)

So this aligns with Adobe employee Rikk Flohr's comment about "inconsistencies between Mac and Windows regarding this issue".

[Alberto35257400ek5y]

Hi, My LRC is updated to the last version 13.1  with Camera Raw 16.1.

Very recently, when importing CS3 raw files from a disk folder, LRC creates XMP files in the same folder automatically just simply importing.

Is it possible to avoid this?

Normally xmp file was created only after developing the raw file

I couldn't find any specific setting concerning the issue.

Thanks

[JohanElzenga]

This is probably because you have a camera default setting that adds edits (or you apply a develop and/or a metadata preset on import).