P: Custom Order lost with slight accidental movement of thumbnail in filmstrip

[Nick_13]

When sort order is set to date order, it then changes to custom order each and every time an image is edited in Photoshop

[Goapher]

yes - please share a video. I am unable to reproduce the same at my end. It's possible we are using different steps to achieve the same that you are doing, and hence not seeing the 'bug'.

Thanks.

[Nick_13]

I have taken 2 rather shaky videos to demonstrate this intermittent problem (sometimes when a photo is edited in Photoshop it returns to its original position in the Capture Time location, and as in these videos, it returns to the end of the gallery i the Folder). There is no regular pattern as to when the photo returns to the original position or not.  I would add that this has been happening for several years now (long before I started to use Loupedeck, so that has no bearing on the problem).  The first video shows opening a photo (when the order is set to Capture Time) in Photoshop.  I then carried out some edits in Photoshop, and the second video shows the image saved and returning to Lightroom but at the end of the gallery (folder).  I hope that makes sense, and gives clues to the erratic and frustrating position change in the folder.  If you require screenshot of the Folder arrangement or any other aspect of this problem, let me know.  

[Nick_13]

Do the videos help give any clues as to why I am experiencing this intermittent issue ?

[Goapher]

Thanks for the video Nick - I have been trying the same at my end as well. Not still getting it to happen 😞
If the issue happens next please share the files that you see them happening - analysing the date fields in the file could help us nail it.

[Nick_13]

Will do, as soon as it happens again.  Although I have to say it is that random that it can happen next to a photo that was taken minutes apart and which returns to the correct (Time Order) place - it is a mystery to me

[Nick_13]

The problem has just occurred again.  However I am not sure I can share the two RAW files I combined into a psd in Photoshop, as they are not accepted for uploading here (both size and format).  If I can send them any other way please let me know.  I have noticed that the Capture Time does jump to Custom Order from time to time and wonder if this is more of the problem.  I am trying to ascertain why this happens - it may be after exporting a set of images (I have just tested this option and export didn't seem to change the order this time), otherwise I cannot think of any other regular task that may effect the order - but will keep searching to see if there is an indication of why Capture Time changes to Custom Order

[Nick_13]

After much further thought I am wondering if I am looking at the problem in the wrong area.  Over the weekend I have monitored closely the sort order of the photos and have realised/discovered that the sort order is changing regularly - 8 times yesterday, twice the day before and 5 times the previous day.  So I am now wondering if this has nothing to do with editing in Photoshop as these changes in sort order are happening irrespective of image editing in Photoshop (in fact I have only used Photoshop a couple of times over the weekend).  So I have been trying to see a pattern of when the sort order changes (from Capture Time to Custom order).  There seems to be no regular action I am performing that triggers this change.  It is still very frustrating to deal with the sort order changing on a very regular basis.  I will continue to monitor closely to see if anything becomes obvious, which is hard as I am not doing anything unusual or out of the ordinary in the workflow.
I do wonder if Lightroom is so sensitive as to when I am picking images from the bottom film strip that this may trigger a change in order - seems unlikely but I cannot think of anything else that may be causing the problem

[Goapher]

Thank you, Nick, for keeping us posted on your investigations.

Are the image files of the same or different types? Are you editing any properties that could affect the underlying image file in the OS - or metadata? Is there some pattern on the order/kind of operations you perform on the image when you notice the change in sort order?

If you can specify a few of the operations you performed, I can have the same tried at my end as well. I know it is frustrating to see a behaviour that is wrong but cannot be explained. Again, thanks for your analysis, and keep us posted if you find anything.

[Nick_13]

The image types are all the same - Nikon NEF RAW files, from two D750's both with same camera settings - there does not appear to be any indication that the two sets of images cause a change in order.  In fact I have been keeping an eye on the change in order and I still cannot see a regular activity that triggers the change, but will continue to monitor closely, and will let you know if I see any kind of pattern.  Thanks for your help so far

[deeboop]

same problem for many years, after many updates of both PS & LR, the problem persists.  I prefer the 'file name' sort order, and when I send a photo from LR to edit in PS -the image returns back to LR  at the end of the thumbnail list, even though the sort order was set to 'file name' when sent to  from LR to PS.  When returned back to LR the sort order is somehow changed to 'custom' .  I then have to reset the sort order back to 'file name' to continue on.  Happens about 60% of the time, I can't identify any reason why it happens randomly.  I know others who experience the same, and have seen other posts about this as well... no solutions though:(  It does not take long to reset the sort order, but when editing a wedding it does add a chunk of time I would LOVE to eliminate.  Anyone have a solution?

[JohanElzenga]

This never happens to me, but there are two things I do that may influence this. First of all, I organise my images in collections only. Folders are irrelevant to me and my folder panel is collapsed 98% of the time. That means I will always edit in Photoshop from within a collection, never from within a folder. And secondly I checked to option to stack the resulting image with the raw file. Maybe this plays a role, maybe it’s just a coincidence, but the sort order remains (by filename) as it should be when I edit in Photoshop.

[Nick_13]

I have been incessantly trying to analyse why LR changes the sort order.  I cannot see a single reason, or pattern of any sort as to why this happens, both when sending photos to Photoshop, and also occurring randomly during use of Lightroom.  Clues are not even evident when the order randomly changes when moving between Grid and Develop modes.  So infuriating, and even more so - disruptive to my workflow (I never use collections - always use folders as I import from folders on Mac Finder.  Process the images and archive the catalogue - so I never have a large library connected to LR)

[deeboop]

This is an issue than clearly only happens to a small number of LR / PS users.  In a conversation amongst our local wedding photographer community - about 3 or 4 out of +/- 30 people have experienced this ongoing problem.  So a small group - but 10% is not insignificant.  The biggest frustration is the fact that it seems so random ... while editing a wedding over the course of the last 20 minutes - I sent 3 of the LR images on to PS for added edits... 2 of the 3 returned back to LR with the sort order changed from 'file name' to 'custom' with the PS edit appearing at the end of the thumbnail list.  The 3rd of 3 returned back in the correct 'file name' sort.  There were no differences in how the files were sent to PS/ edited in PS / returned to LR.  The working solution when the image returns with the sort order changed is to select the image in the thumbnail list > switch from develop module to library > reset the sort order to file name > switch back to develop module > select the next image & carry on.  Five added clicks, about 3-4 seconds.  Not a big deal if I were only editing a handful of images.  But I edit 800-1500 per week, and so these extra -tedious & annoying- steps are repeated dozens to hundreds of times each week, times each month, times several years.  Boo.  (otherwise happy user:)

[Nick_13]

And some of us are editing 800+ images a day !  The additional unnecessary steps to maintain the status quo is not only bit frustrating but very costly.  And the sort order changes randomly at times other than when sending photos to Photoshop - there is no clear pattern

[Finch1055]

I have had this same problem for a long time. It's random for me as well. I just edited one photo in PS and it came back still in Date Order. Then I edited a second photo in PS and it went to the end of the folder and the order was Custom Order. It doesn't happen frequently, but it is irritating when it does do it.

[Finch1055]

I just now created a panorama from four images using the LR Photo Merge Panorama tool. It put the panorama at the end of the folder and I was in Custom Order. Strange.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

This has been happening to me since lightroom went CC, i.e., ,about 2 years. In my case the order gets changed to custom absolutely every time I round trip to an external editor (any editor, not just PS).  And it doesn't matter if I start the process from within a folder or a collection. Incredibly frustrating, especially since I am I neat freak and reorder the photos each time this happens. 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Welp! This thread is 2 years old and it came first in my Google search on this issue. Apparently, it hasn't been resolved. Although I am running an older version of LR Classic. I noticed the issue when using my pen and tablet. It would happen almost every time. When I switched back to mouse it went it never happened. In my case, there seems to be a bug with my drawing tablet. Very strange! 

[Nick_13]

Interesting - it could be that Wacom software is contributing to the problem.  I don't have/use a mouse, so cannot compare, although the intermittent nature is becoming more frequent in my situation.  For Adobe not to take note of these problems, whether Wacom contributes or not, is a very frustrating and long standing irritation and hinderance to workflow 

[deeboop]

eureka! I currently use a cintiq, previously a wacom tablet... so this all seems to align.  Now perhaps a solution?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

OK.  I have this problem regularly.  Based on the last few posts I tested (data points = 1) with and without Wacom Intuos 4 tablet.  With the single test the sort order changes when using the Wacom tablet.  When I turn off the tablet and perform the same operation the sort order does not change.  The specific operation I tested is HDR merge 3 images.  Although I didn't test it here, this problem occurs when going to and from PS.

[DMEEPhD]

Come on!  Lightroom has been unable to remember a previous sort order since version 3!  I routinely have to reset the sort order after importing, switching modes, and using exernal editors.  This is nothing new, and nothing that Adobe has ever bothered to fix.

[Nick_13]

What is mystifying is the inconsistency - the sort order can be maintained for several callouts to Photoshop, and then randomly scramble for a few callouts, and then behave.  Haven't used a mouse for nearly a decade so am reluctant to start due to this inconvenience.  I do wish Adobe would take it's customers seriously

[Nick_13]

Leads one to surmise that Adobe are only interested in focusing their efforts where a financial return is expected (not considering that consequences of losing customers will be the result of their neglect in this respect !!)

[DMEEPhD]

Exactly!