P: Custom Order lost with slight accidental movement of thumbnail in filmstrip

[Nick_13]

When sort order is set to date order, it then changes to custom order each and every time an image is edited in Photoshop

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Do I have this workflow correct?

1. Select Album with a custom sort order
2. Select Three images to perform a Photo Merge - HDR (or is this a Send to Photoshop for HDR?)

Result: 

With Wacom - Sort Order Changes
Without Wacom - Sort Order is stable

[deeboop]

Currently using cintique, previously using Wacom tablet:
1) in LR ( with sort order set to file name) select (single or multiple) image(s) to perform ANY edit in PS
2) complete PS edit, save
3) return to LR to find the image sort order changed from file name to custom, with the recently edited image located at the end of the thumbnail list.

This happens sporadically - more that 50% of the time - but certainly not every time.

[johnrellis]

I wonder if this bug is related to having the view filter unlocked.  The lock is only supposed to affect filter settings, but I've seen anomalies in the past relating filter settings with sort order.

So try with File > Library Filters > Lock Filters checked and  > Remember Each Source's Filters Separately unchecked:

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

@anne  - is it necessary to use the Wacom device instead of a mouse/trackpad to perform the navigation or does it have to just be connected?

[Nick_13]

I have the library filters set as you describe Rikk and this problem still occurs as described by Anne.  I do not have a mouse, so cannot check the problem without the use of my Wacom.   But surely Lightroom should not be effected by a Wacom tablet, or at least I hope not ?

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

John sent you the above filter advice.

I am unable to reproduce this either with a Wacom attached or without.  Sort order remains by File Name using either a Collection or a Folder. 

There has to be more to the story or a step that is missing. 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I have this same issue, and I've had it for as long as I've been using both LR & PS, about four years, maybe?
It is very frustrating if you are working on thousands of images, and you want to keep them in order, it makes me not want to take the photo into PS, because I already know that I'm going to have to go through the pain of getting each one back in its proper place.

I SO hope they fix this!

[markdphoto]

I have had this issue since as long as this thread has been active. STILL no solution.
What is the problem?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I have to say I'm moving away from LR to On1...solely to get rid of this problem, LR changes from Capture sort to Custom on nearly every external edit. 

[JLinePhoto]

I am now experiencing this for the first time. When I edited a photo in Photoshop through lightroom after saving the Photoshop edit my photo goes to the beginning of all my photos in lightroom. How frustrating this is. I shoot real estate and shoot rooms in order. What happened to lightroom? 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

yeah it happens to me nearly all the time, mine goes to the end sometimes, other times it gets mixed in with a new order and you have to try and find it....when you have a shoot containing about 1000 images it's very frustrating. I'm trying Lightroom alternatives at the moment.

[JLinePhoto]

I also shoot weddings and this is going to really mess things up. Does anyone know why this is happening and how to get back to how things worked before?

[johnrellis]

I think it's unlikely this bug will be addressed until Adobe product developers can reproduce it. Reviewing past posts, two employees and at least two very experienced users have tried but failed. 

If several of you experiencing this bug could post full-resolution screen recordings on Dropbox, Google Drive, Youtube, or similar, showing the full screen with your entire workflow, from selecting a photo to edit in Library grid view, editing it in Photoshop, returning to Library, this could provide more clues about how to reproduce the problem.  (Using Library grid view rather than Loupe view in Library or Develop might provide more clues; but if it only happens in Loupe view, then a screen recording of that would be better than nothing.)

[johnrellis]

The original poster provided two screen recordings, but unfortunately, they're no longer available on Youtube.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I will upload one shortly to vimeo.....its a nude image so youtube wont accept it

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

> its a nude image so youtube wont accept it

Please bear in mind that this is also a family-friendly site...

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

i will post a link only

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I manage a goldfinch video.....safe and family friendly

https://vimeo.com/342464270


The other vids on my channel are Art Nude....be careful

[Nick_13]

This is identical to the problem I continually have on the Apple Mac with Lightroom, where I usually have the order set to Capture, but on returning from Photoshop the order changes to Custom, and I have to set it back to Capture Time.  Very frustrating 

[johnrellis]

John, your video has all the clues need to explain what you're observing. (If a picture is worth a 1000 words, a video can be worth ten times that.) Your issue is different than Nick's (the original poster).

You're working in a folder set to Sort: Custom Order. You edit the first file, a raw, in Photoshop and then save that file as a TIFF. LR stacks that TIFF on top of the original raw (you have the option Preferences > External Editing > Stack With Original set). And then that stack moves to the end of the filmstrip.

This occurs because LR always sorts grid view and the film strip by the attributes of the top photo in a stack. When any file gets added to a folder or collection with Custom Order, that file's custom-order position gets set to the end of the folder or collection (e.g. if there are 3 photos in the folder and you add one to the folder, it gets position 4).

Thus, in this situation, the newly added TIFF gets a Custom Order position at the end of the folder, and since it's on top of the stack, the stack gets sorted at the end of the filmstrip. You can verify this by right-clicking the original raw and doing Stacking > Move To Top Of Stack -- the stack moves to the beginning of the filmstrip.

A partial workaround is to set the sort order of the filmstrip to Capture Time or File Name.  Then the stack won't get moved around when you edit, since the newly added TIFF will sort in the same location as the original raw. Of course, if you really want that custom order in your editing workflow, this workaround isn't satisfactory.

I think it would be less confusing for a TIFF created by Photo > Edit In to inherit the Custom Order position from the original.  Then the resulting stack wouldn't jump around in the filmstrip.  You could file a separate feature request for that -- Adobe won't see it buried here. 

Nick, the original poster, observes a different problem: He's editing a photo in a folder or collection (not clear which) with Sort: Capture Time, and after returning to Photoshop the order gets set to Sort: Custom Order.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Hi John

No, sorry....all my folders are set to Capture time. They are only set to Custom sort when Lightroom fails as shown in the video. The folder the goldfinch was in was set to Capture before sending it to PS. I'll see if I can get another video showing the 'sort' before edit.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

The point is.....something is causing the sort to change, I always set it to Capture

[johnrellis]

The video shows Sort: Custom Order before you invoke Edit In. So at least in this case, it's the stacking issue causing the reordering.  A video showing Sort: Capture Time before you invoke Edit In could be helpful, as would starting in Library grid view rather than Loupe view -- that will show more LR settings that are hidden by Loupe view.

[johnrellis]

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Actually I found something odd.....you dont actually have to send an image to PS for editing, LR seems to change from capture to custom without it. I set all my folders in 2009 to Capture....went back to double check and one has set itself to custom without editing anything.
I will see if I can video it.