P: Custom Order lost with slight accidental movement of thumbnail in filmstrip

[Nick_13]

When sort order is set to date order, it then changes to custom order each and every time an image is edited in Photoshop

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I also use mouse only.  However I think I've managed to limit where its happening to filtering while in the develop module.  If I filter in Library, then go into develop to work on the higher rated photos and then back out, the order doesn't change.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

no...no wacom software.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Is there any chance of this Rikk ?

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

The chance depends upon getting a reproducible scenario documented that we can pass onto engineering. They can't fix it unless we can show them it is broken. To that end we need specific system information and a step-by-step process for reproducing the behavior reliably. 

As a Lightroom Classic user with 380K images cataloged, I've sent at minimum 6500 images (and probably many more) from Lightroom to Photoshop over the past 13 years.  I recall it happening 1 time about 7 years ago. It hasn't happened to me since.  What does that mean? 

• I have a workflow that is slightly different and don't encounter it?
• I have a system configuration that doesn't reproduce the scenario?
• I have a higher tolerance for this so it ceases to impinge upon my awareness? 
• All of the above in some combination?

If anyone can give me step-by-step clean steps for reproduction, and I can reproduce the behavior, a bug will be written immediately and then I can escalate it through the channels and the Product manager.  Till that time, I continue to gather data and investigate possibilities. 

In three years, this post has only garnered 6 Me Too votes. It wouldn't hurt to hit the button at the top if you haven't already. 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I have given step by step details of the actions I take (in LR & Ps) and the results, which I can repeat for you.  But I am not sure, from what you have said, that this will reproduce the issue on your computer.  Are there any system files or logs that you would find useful ?

I can confirm software and hardware, but this is not always specific, as for example the problem has occurred over many updates of macOS, and also several updates of Wacom drivers (and several updates of LR and Ps software). And to confirm I am currently using the latest versions of all.  I have also tested several levels of sensitivity settings for the Wacom stylus  

To me it all points to a conflict between LR and Wacom software/settings in some way, which is why I wondered if any logs would be of use to you ?

[johnrellis]

I think a trivial change to LR would fix the issue, without needing a reproducible recipe.

Currently, when you select a thumbnail and drag it towards the next photo and release the mouse button before the cursor reaches the border, LR will change the sort order to Custom, even though the order hasn't actually changed. See this screen recording. (Some pointing devices conspire with LR to cause these spurious drags.)

LR should only change to Custom if the order actually changes.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Yes, I agree this is probably the main issue

But I do not use a pointer (Wacom stylus) most of the time to pick images, as I use arrow keys to move from one image to another and keyboard shortcuts to open from LR to Ps

The issue also occurs without taking an image into Ps, just during use of LR

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Here is a video of it happening.....run to 13:00 and you will see the sort change
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q7yjgLvzM9MhtKnWA9eitVzOUhiiq6zE/view?usp=sharing

[Bob Somrak]

Unfortunately the video doesn't show anything about change of sort order after an edit in Photoshop.  I looks like it could be the issue of "bumping" the thumbnail a little and the sort order changes to custom when you don't actually move the photo. I have ran into this issue a few times.  If you click and hold a little too long and move or maybe something to do with the mouse click sensitivity settings then the photo will "bump" just a little and the sort changes.  Adobe should correct this and make it operate where you have to move the photo more than a few pixels to change the sort order.  It is too sensitive now.  

[Bob Somrak]

To add to my comment, I didn't see if "bumping" was happening but it happened when you were clicking the filmstrip.

[PFImagery]

This.  Exactly.

[johnrellis]

"Adobe should correct this and make it operate where you have to move the photo more than a few pixels to change the sort order.  It is too sensitive now."

My proposal is much simpler: The sort order will change to Custom only if the actual order of the photos changes.

Currently, changing the actual order isn't very sensitive and requires a very large mouse movement. In the filmstrip, the mouse has to move 1.5 thumbnails to the left or right. In grid view, it has to move 1.5 thumbnails left or right, or completely outside the current thumbnail moving up or down.

[Bob Somrak]

For me I only have to move the image a small amount

 https://www.dropbox.com/s/nrgh4a68x7fkcoe/ScreenRecording2020-04-29at4.20.32PM.mov?dl...

[Bob Somrak]

For me I only have to move the image a small amount

 https://www.dropbox.com/s/nrgh4a68x7fkcoe/ScreenRecording2020-04-29at4.20.32PM.mov?dl...

[Bob Somrak]

As soon as the black bar between the photo shows up Lightroom assumes a move was made.  I agree with you proposal John, the sort order shouldn't change until an actual change is made.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Robert & John:
It sounds like you two are in agreement that this is not an Edit in Photoshop/return to Lightroom issue. Can we chalk this up to subtle unintended movements in the filmstrip? While Wacom may or may not be involved, its involvement is more likely to be the less precise nature of Wacom hover/drag when working with the filmstrip. 

John McNair & Nick Harrison - are you in agreement with this analysis?

[Bob Somrak]

Rikk,

I don't ever recall the sort order changing when returning from Photoshop but I have had the sort order change several time because of moving the photos slightly in the filmstrip.  This happens accidentally and more often when I select photos and start to move them to a collection and change my mind and want to select different photos.  I start the drag, drag back to their original location, let go of the mouse and the sort changes.  As John said, the sort shouldn't change unless you actually move the photos in the filmstrip.  

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Rikk,

The sort change happens a lot and I notice it more when an image returns to lightroom, but it could be that the sort change is done before the image goes to PS for editing. I am thinking that locking down the filmstrip is probably a good start then take it from there.

[johnrellis]

"Can we chalk this up to subtle unintended movements in the filmstrip?"

It does seem that this is a cause of what people are observing here.

[PFImagery]

Rikk,

"It sounds like you two are in agreement that this is not an Edit in Photoshop/return to Lightroom issue. Can we chalk this up to subtle unintended movements in the filmstrip? While Wacom may or may not be involved, its involvement is more likely to be the less precise nature of Wacom hover/drag when working with the filmstrip. 

John McNair & Nick Harrison - are you in agreement with this analysis?"

This^^^.  I agree with John and Nick.  It's not a Ps issue.  That's just where I noticed the change had occured.  But now I can look in Library after being in Develop and see the change of Sort order has happened before I've sent to Ps.  I have noticed when I tap an image with my pen, sometimes it moves slightly, enough to show the black line when an image is moved.  I don't actually move the image, it's just a slight movement because the pen-tablet interface is very sensitive.

You should be able to recreate this easily by slightly nudging and image but not actually moving it.  I can recreate with a mouse intentionally.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

I will log an issue with the team. I have retitled the thread as Edit in Photoshop does not appear to be a contributing factor. 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Rikk
I agree that the issue does not necessarily occur due to sending to / returning from Ps, and that it does appear to be down to the sensitivity of the slightest of movements in the filmstrip.  And that this is also irrespective of pointer tool being used (mouse or Wacom stylus pen).
On this basis a reduction in sensitivity, to actually fully moving an image beyond another image, or the application of a lock on the filmstrip sort order choice, would be a logical and much appreciated 
Thank you 

[PFImagery]

Thanks Rikk!

[alexpardi]

My issue is slightly different, but it might well be related to the original poster's problem. If I am in a folder with custom order, after the Photoshop editing the psd+raw file stack goes to the end of the filmstrip, which is also annoying. Is this reproducible to everyone involved?

Thanks,
Alex

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Check your sort order for the Folder/Collection in which you are located. It is likely set to Edited Time or similar.