P: Full Screen mode: Print & Book modules show wrong colors but output correctly

[The Keeper of the Garden]

LR Classic 10.0 on macOS Big Sur 11.0.1 shows the original, unedited version of the photo when using the "Zoom to Fill" function in the Print module. In other words: All the edits done on the photo do not show when "Zoom to Fill" is checked. This seems to happen regardless of the Paper size setting or any other setting in the Print module.

[Bob Somrak]

It works fine on Lr10 and macOS 10.15.7 so it might be a Big Sur problem.

[The Keeper of the Garden]

@robert_somrak

I'm very sorry but that is not how software and operating systems work together. The problem occurs inside LR Classic 10.0 in combination with Big Sur 11.0.1, not anywhere else, not in other photography applications that I use, not in any other user environment inside Big Sur.

Applications have to adapt to the OS, not vice versa. The fact that something has changed inside the OS between Catalina and Big Sur concerning the preview of photos inside LR Classic's Print module, has to be addressed by software engineers of LR Classic, not by Apple's. I count on Adobe to fix this bug. Because I pay for software that works.

[pgmanuel]

I can reproduce something similar using Lightroom 10 and Big Sur. Clicking the "Zoom to Fill" check box in the Print module zooms the image as intended but at the same time the preview is slightly desaturated. On darker images the loss of saturation is barely noticeable but on others it is quite visible.

However, printing the non-zoomed and zoomed versions (to JPEG files) results in identical images (other than the zoom) with no loss of saturation in the zoomed image.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Do you still have this issue after updating to 10.1?

[The Keeper of the Garden]

@Rikk

Yes, I'm afraid so. I have just tested it out, and the problem is still present in LrC 10.1... 

[duckshots@comcast.net]

Using Lightroom Classic on Big Sur. Going from Develop to Print, image gets gray and loses some tone, exposure and brightness.

[COBill]

I wish someone would write a book (PDF preferably) about printing from Lightroom. There are so many gotchas related to printer profiles, printers, printer drivers, the OS and OS updates, paper... I finally gave up and print from the Windows Photos app instead. Experiment has shown that if I boost saturation by about 10 then export at full quality, I get a print that is reasonably close to the screen. At least this week. 

But this is working for one specific printer and paper and likely would need adjustment for any other printer, paper, update to the Photos app, etc. 

The best results, IMHO, is to email the image to an online print shop.

[JP Hess]

The printing experts will tell you that the only way to get accurate prints is to calibrate your monitor with a hardware calibrating device, which I have not done. But I won't argue with that suggestion. The monitor DOES need to be calibrated. I have chosen an alternate method that is not as accurate but has produced satisfactory results for me. I found calibration images on the Internet that I downloaded and printed on my printer without making any adjustments to them whatsoever. Then I use the controls on my monitor and software to adjust the images on screen until they match as closely as possible what the print looks like. Yes, I realize this isn't very scientific, and isn't recommended by anyone who is truly serious about printing. But it has worked consistently for me for several years now.

What I have discovered in my own "problems" is that most often the monitor is set with the brightness too high. Use whatever method you choose, but you must get your monitor to match what the printer is printing. This is probably much more difficult with the Apple retina displays, I'm guessing. If you want to take the time and spend the money for the hardware calibration device and software I understand it's the best way to go.

[COBill]

For the best results, it is also necessary to calibrate round trip with a scanner; a monumental effort. Plus a complete calibration solution costs upwards of $500. I'll give your technique a tryout, I like the price. Thanks. 

[duckshots@comcast.net]

@james_hess_4809339 I appreciate your effort and the time spent on a response. Maybe I didn't articulate the problem. I have an epson printer and a calibrated monitor. I print a lot. Costs a lot. I never, never, never had a problem until I installed Big Sur. Image comes up on monitor in develop. When I go to print module something happens to it. Nothing wrong with monitor.

[duckshots@comcast.net]

@bill_3305731  

I guess I didn't introduce myself or post the problem correctly. I print a lot and don't have a problem with lr print module or my monitor or set up or skills. I don't earn money as a photog, but for all intents and purposes I am a professional photographer with superior technical and aesthetic skills. I never, never, never had this problem until I installed Big Sur. Now there may be some compatibility issue others have not incurred. I took an image, made minor adjustments in LR Classic and sent it to the print module as I have done thousands of times. The skin tone went grayish and the colors got flat.

[pgmanuel]

I am still seeing this issue 10.1.

Just to expand on my post above, the loss of saturation in the zoomed version occurs regardless of whether the image has edits. I can reproduce the effect with an unedited file.

Further I have now realised that I am seeing the same behaviour in the Library module. When zooming in from Loupe view to a higher percentage the image loses saturation.

[The Keeper of the Garden]

I can confirm what Paul Manuel says: the same problem occurs in the Library module when zooming in to e.g. 100% or more.

However, I notice that the photos not only show up less saturated in colours, but do miss certain basic edits, such as White Balance and Contrast.

For what it's worth, I'm seeing this problem on RAW photos of three different Sony cameras: Sony A900, Sony A700, and Sony DSC-RX10.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

I am not seeing any difference on Mac 10.15.7. 

What is your OS and Printer?

[duckshots@comcast.net]

Printer - Epson P 800. OS is Big Sur. Computer is an iMac. But the change occurs as I go from the Develop mode, proofed, to the Print mode, before printing and then the prints come out looking like screen.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

So the Print Module Preview Screen is not matched but the actual Print is to the Develop view?

[duckshots@comcast.net]

Nope, they come up looking like the develop screen, flat.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Let me ask a different way. Which statement is true:

1. The Print looks like the preview in the Print Module
2. The Print looks like the preview in the Develop Module

A set of comparison screenshots showing the difference would go a long way here. 

[duckshots@comcast.net]

Image from the print module.

[duckshots@comcast.net]

@lorin_duckman  

No. forget about the print. the image on the screen changes when I move from develop to print.

[duckshots@comcast.net]

I am working on this.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Print does not display the Soft Proof render. That is only available in Develop. I would expect a Soft Proofed image to differ from it's print module version.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

I am having difficulties reproducing this. If you can reproduce, can you please type out step by step instructions and include your OS version?

[The Keeper of the Garden]

1. Edit a RAW file (in the Edit module) and for the sake of making the problem very visible, add lots of saturation and contrast.
2. Zoom in and out, still inside the Edit module - no difference visible between e.g. Fit and 100% or 200% etc. No problem here.
3. Switch to the Library module. In Fit view the edited RAW file looks the same as in the Edit module.
4. Still in the Library module, zoom in to 100% or more, whatever is needed to make things look big.
5. Any enlargement (zoom in) shows the photo with huge loss of saturation (and contrast).

The strange thing is that it doesn't even look like the photo without any edits (in its imported state, before any editing). I was previously wrong in stating that it looked as though all edits had disappeared. From what I see now, mainly Saturation, but as far as I can see also White Balance (because the difference in hue in the blue sky in my photos make that clear), and Contrast seem to be affected by the problem.

Strange also: Black and White RAW files look OK when zoomed in...

I have tried this with new and old photos, and the problem is there with all of them, in the Library module when zooming in, and in the Print module when the option "Zoom to Fill" is ON. I can even add a fourth camera model to my previous list above: Sony A100. But it's not related to Sony RAW (.ARW) files, as in another thread a German colleague is using Canon RAW and has the same issue in exactly the same way.

This has started to happen since the upgrade to Big Sur, but I have other editing software and only in LrC the issue is present.

FYI, I'm using an iMac 27inch, 2019, 5K with 32GB of RAM, on macOS Big Sur 11.0.1 and LrC 10.1.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

I am unable to reproduce. I do  not run Big Sur yet so that may be the difference.