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P: Linear (non-standard) profile in LR Mobile

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Participant ,
Sep 20, 2021 Sep 20, 2021

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I have been, successfully, trying out linear profiles in LRC. They are very helpful for certain images. The problem is, when the image is posted to LR Mobile.

First, while reviewing the images, I get a pop up message that editing in Mobile will lose settings as it is not a standard profile. That would be ok, as I was just using LRM to display the images. The problem is, the image is not rendered as it was with the original linear profile…it is much brighter and washed out as if another profile (tone curve) had been used.

I had a mix of ‘Adobe Neutral’ and linear profile images. The ‘AN’ images rendered as shown on LRC, the linear were washed out.

LRC 10.4, Win 10
Is this a bug or ‘as designed’?

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Adobe Employee , Sep 27, 2021 Sep 27, 2021
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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 21, 2021 Sep 21, 2021

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Lightroom Classic does not sync profiles. You need to install Lightroom desktop and import them there. Then they will be synced to the cloud, so Lightroom mobile also has access to them.

 

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga

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Participant ,
Sep 21, 2021 Sep 21, 2021

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I did what Johan said.  Loaded profile to LR desktop.  Then sync's some test images from LRC to LR Mobile.  LRM recognized the linear profile.  However, the 'rendered' image did not reflect using the linear profile.  I browsed the profiles, linear was selected, switch to another profile, the back to linear....the image now looked proper (same as on desktop.  I went to next image which had same problem.  Went back to orig8nal image, which now had reverted to the initial, washed out (not using linear profile) look.  Same th8ng happened to 2nd image...and 3rd.

 

I also linked to images via browser link.  All of them had washed out look.

 

if I am doing something wrong I would appreciate guidance.  However, at the moment, I can only assume that LRM is using some profile other that the assigned linear profile for rendering image.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 21, 2021 Sep 21, 2021

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Johan stated,

“ You need to install Lightroom desktop and import them there. Then they will be synced to the cloud, so Lightroom mobile also has access to them.“

What you needed to do is import the original images to Lightroom Desktop on your computer, not sync the images from Lightroom Classic, Lightroom desktop will sync the original images to the Adobe Cloud storage and will be available to Lightroom mobile on your Phone or Tablet.

Lightroom Classic only syncs smart-previews to the cloud storage, and you will not have the profile you wish.

 

 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.6.1, LrC 11.0.1, Lr 5, Ps 23.0,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 22, 2021 Sep 22, 2021

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Nope, that is not the problem. The problem is that profiles aren't synced from LrC, not that LrC sync only a smart preview. If you would upload the original file via Lightroom desktop, the profile would still not be available if Lightroom desktop does not have it installed.

 

I have many images in Lightroom mobile that have a special profile, even though these images were synced from LrC as smart previews. They still have the correct profile because I uploaded all my profiles (many of them custom made by me) via Lightroom desktop.

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga

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Participant ,
Sep 22, 2021 Sep 22, 2021

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Johan...OK....I'm 'lost' 😀

I have loaded profiles to LR desktop and LRC desktop.  Images(files) are imported and 'developed' on LRC desktop using the linear (non-standard) profile.

 

My preferred method to get them to LR Mobile would be to create a collection on LRC desktop and sync them to LRM.  This, apparently, is not working.

 

what do I need to do?  

(Frankly, importing to LR (cloud) desktop and creating a workflow through it, is not, in my eye, a solution.  My alternative would be to 'Publish' via 'Smugmug' and totally avoid LRM for displaying/distributing the images)

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 22, 2021 Sep 22, 2021

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What is the exact error message you get? The method I described works to get custom profiles into Lightroom mobile. I use it all the time. But if the message is that the custom profile is present, but cannot be used, then something else is going on.

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga

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Participant ,
Sep 22, 2021 Sep 22, 2021

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Custom profile is present.  When I initially look at the image, it is much brighter & washed out than image on desktop.  If I edit, browse the profiles, linear is selected (but obviously not being used).  If I select another profile, then re-elect the linear profile, the images changes to the way it should look.  If I switch to another image, then back to the first one, it has reverted to the bright, washed out look.  Somehow, LRM is not 'rendering' using the non-standard profile, except temporarily, when forced.

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Participant ,
Sep 22, 2021 Sep 22, 2021

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Forgot to mention.  There is no error message.  Proper linear profile is present for image with exact name as loaded in LR & LRC.

 

Brower image has same brighter, washed out look.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 22, 2021 Sep 22, 2021

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Well, that is indeed a different problem. In your initial message you say "I get a pop up message that editing in Mobile will lose settings as it is not a standard profile". I figured that you had a missing profile issue, so I explained how to get custom LrC profiles uploaded to Lightroom mobile. Now you say you do not get an error message...

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga

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Participant ,
Sep 22, 2021 Sep 22, 2021

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Johan....well, I followed your instructions to load profile into LR (cloud) desktop.  That removed the error message, but not the problem.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 23, 2021 Sep 23, 2021

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OK, so the initial problem was a missing profile, but something else causes the bleached out view. I have no idea what that is. You talk about a 'linear profile' all the time. Can you explain what you mean with that? Camera profiles are not icc-profiles, but as mobile devices are not color managed, a very different camera profile may cause a problem that normally would be dealt with through color management. Just a thought...

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga

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Participant ,
Sep 23, 2021 Sep 23, 2021

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A linear profile is just a replacement for the Adobe supplied profiles (Adobe Color, Camera Standard, etc).  However, it does not have a tone curve applied.  Explained and available here https://tonykuyper.wordpress.com/2021/07/23/the-linear-profile-a-new-beginning-in-light-room-and-cam...

 

once loaded in LR desktop, it shows, along with the other standard profiles in Mobile.

 

the problem seems to be that it does not initially use the assigned profile.  Also, even after one assures it is used, it is not 'sticky'....that is, not used the next time you go to that image.  I have no idea what profile Mobile is defaulting to, but it is one with a tone curve reapplied, which increases the mid and high tones.

 

This is not an icy profile issue.

 

Unless someone can point out some steps I am missing or doing wrong, I am guessing an Adobe bug.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 23, 2021 Sep 23, 2021

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I created a linear Adobe Standard profile using the Adobe DNG Profile Editor with below Tone Curve setting and it's displaying properly on my Samsung Note Pro 12.2 Android tablet. How did you create the linear camera profile and what mobile device (s) are you using.

 

Linear Tone Curve.jpg

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Participant ,
Sep 23, 2021 Sep 23, 2021

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I did not create it, but obtained it from link above.

 

I am using on Apple iPad, but get same problem on browser.

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Participant ,
Sep 23, 2021 Sep 23, 2021

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Todd, described my workflow.  Are you doing anything different?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 23, 2021 Sep 23, 2021

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No, I'm not doing anything differently than what you outlined, but I'm using an Android Samsung tablet. In additon I'm using LR Mobile for Android v6.1 (v6.4 is latest) and can't upgrade further due to Android OS limitation of my Samsung tablet (OS 5.0.2). Android 6.0 and higher is required. It's possible something has changed and/or it's unique to iOS. Perhaps someone landing here with an iOS tablet can try a linear camera profile LR Mobile. The linear profiles at the link you provided are not currently available (server changes in-progress). You can download the Adobe DNG profile editor and change the Tone Curve to linear. Scroll down at the below link to the DNG Profile Editor download and PDF.

 

https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/digital-negative.html

 

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Participant ,
Sep 23, 2021 Sep 23, 2021

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Well, being Apple, the app is up to date.  Problem was with iPadOS 14.8 & 15.

I retried the browser.  It again showed bright/washed out images.  This time I 'flipped' profiles there.  On exiting edit of image (with linear profile 'reapplied'), I got a grey image with circle of moving dots (syncing?).   Image now showed proper look.

So....it seems that LRC desktop is not originally sending(syncing) an image with the linear profile applied.  The iPad mobile app, does not seem to apply and sync to cloud if profile is change to non-standard profile (did not try changing to s5andard profile).  The browser with resync changed view.  
Quite annoying.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 23, 2021 Sep 23, 2021

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@jrsforums States in a post a short while ago.

Quote “So....it seems that LRC desktop is not originally sending(syncing) an image with the linear profile applied.”.

JohanElzenga indicated in the very first reply in the thread.

“Lightroom Classic does not sync profiles.”.

LrC syncs smart-previews to the Adobe Creative Cloud it does not sync profiles so it functions as designed. It is not a bug.

 Are we starting from the beginning again????

 

 

 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.6.1, LrC 11.0.1, Lr 5, Ps 23.0,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Participant ,
Sep 23, 2021 Sep 23, 2021

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DdeG...not quite, I don't think.

 

LRC does not sync profiles, but it does seem to send a 'pointer' to the correct profile.  This is indicated, first, from the warning, when I had not loaded the linear profile to LR and, when the profile was loaded, on editing, it appeared the image was 'tagged' with the profile that had been used in LRC.

 

The initial problem, that I see, is that LRC does not sync the 'rendered' image shown in develop/libtray on desktop.  What is initially displayed in the cloud (mobile/browser) is using some other (stronger) profile.

 

second, the linear profile was able to be applied by tweaking each image in browser, but not on mobile.

 

A quick, but unconfirmed, test seems to indicate that opening the folder in LR desktop, seems to rollout the proper rendering.  Chasing this down will take some time, as I need to prepare for a weekend event I am shooting and, then, delivering early next week.

 

Adobe may be correct that their future is the cloud, but, at least in the near term, the reality is images and performance on the desktop.  Incompatibilities and inconsistencies like this make it a bit too troublesome.  I believe this week's deliverable review will be via Smugmug.  

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 23, 2021 Sep 23, 2021

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"Adobe may be correct that their future is the cloud, but, at least in the near term, the reality is images and performance on the desktop. Incompatibilities and inconsistencies like this make it a bit too troublesome. I believe this week's deliverable review will be via Smugmug."

 

From my limited expereince with the LR Ecosystem I have to agree with your assement. Here's a bug report I created from December 2019 concerning color mangement issues with the LR Web app. I just checked today and the issue is still present! You'll only encounter it when using a wide gamut display, but that's no reason for Adobe not to fix it.

https://feedback-readonly.photoshop.com/conversations/lightroom-classic/lightroom-classic-90-synced-...

 

I found this similar post as well.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-ecosystem-cloud-based-discussions/custom-camera-profile-bug...

 

I also ran a raw file test using Adobe Standard camera profile and a copy with a custom ColorChecker Passport camera profile. I exported both to Adobe RGB 16 bit TIFF file format and then synced all four in  a collection to the Cloud. Inside LR Mobile the Adobe Standard raw file and its companion TIFF file look idnetcial as expected and match the preview inside LrC. The custom ColorChecker Passport  raw file looks more color saturated than the preview inside LrC and its companion TIFF file. So it appears color management is broken when using custom camera profiles. Yes, the custom camera profiles have been ingested into LrC, LR Desktop and synced to the Cloud and LR Mobile.

 

If you can upload a raw file with your settings applied and CTRL/CMD S to save them to XMP I'll take a look at it on my Samsung Android tablet. Please upload the raw file, XMP file, and linear camera profile to Dropbox or other a file sharing site. Thank you.

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 23, 2021 Sep 23, 2021

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@lrsforums, re your recent post. If what you are alluding to has merit if you use Lr (cloud-based) app on your computer to get the profiles to the cloud ecosystem then when you sync an image from LrC the profile should be recognized. Maybe there is a case for a feature reguest ?

 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.6.1, LrC 11.0.1, Lr 5, Ps 23.0,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Participant ,
Sep 23, 2021 Sep 23, 2021

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DdeG.....it may be semantics.....but I call it a bug.

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Participant ,
Sep 24, 2021 Sep 24, 2021

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I sent this to Todd.  I will let him reply with any findings he has...

Here’s a link to “LR linear” in my Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gqu412rch14gn0x/AAAuUaeeFWIR9bB96fYHzCgza?dl=0

 

These are just outtakes I was playing with.  After seeing the results, I had converted all final images to jpeg to send for review.

 

I appreciate your looking at this, plus the research to find the other post on the subject.

I know you said you create a linear profile based on 'Adobe Standard'.  Do you know if one gets a different end result if you start with a different profile, such as Adobe Color/Neutral or Camera Standard?  

The link I gave you for my source of the linear profile(s) is run by Tony Kuyper who creates powerful Luminosity Mask plugins.  He just released his update TK8 with 50% discounts for updates., which crashed his site.  I knew it was down 6hrs yesterday, but was not aware it was still down...it is up now.

 

John

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 24, 2021 Sep 24, 2021

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"Do you know if one gets a different end result if you start with a different profile, such as Adobe Color/Neutral or Camera Standard?"

The Adobe Color, Neutral, etc. are creative profiles that use Adobe Standard as the Base Profile. Since your issue is with non-creative profiles let's stay focused on standard profiles for this specific issue.

 

I downloaded the three RW2 raw files with XMP data files and your Linear-Panasonic DC-G9.dcp camera profile. My initial tests using LR Mobile for Android shows the same washed out low contrast rendering, even after I imported the linear camera profile using LR Desktop. I waited a few minutes to make sure the collection with your RW2 files and the linear camera profile were synced to the Cloud. I also tested CR2 raw files using Adobe Standard with a linear tone curve and with a ColorChecker Passport created custom camera profile. Using LR Mobile for Android the RW2 files render correctly with the synced linear camera profile in the Edit mode (i.e. Adjustments) and Loupe view with the Information panel open on the right side. In Loupe view with Information panel closed and Grid view the preview rendering is incorrect. The CR2 files exhibit the exact same behavior so it appears to be a bug when using ANY custom modified camera profile. Is this what you're seeing?

 

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Participant ,
Sep 24, 2021 Sep 24, 2021

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Yes, that is what I was finding.  

No editing in Mobile would make the Loupe/grid views change permanently...they kept changing back to original wrong view.  I did try to make some edit changes in the browser, which had also the same bright, washed out look.  I also reviewed each of the images in LR desktop, where the images did seem to have 'accepted' the linear profile look.  One or both of these action seems to have changed the images in Mobile, which now look like they should.  Because of other commitments, I will be unable to test this again until at least late next week.

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