P: Poor photo in the library and develop module - smart previews

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I have a problem with version 10.0,
the photo is of poor quality in the library and in the develop module. I use smart previews (the disk with the original photos is disconnected).
smart previews in version 10.0 have poorer quality than in version 9.4
When I install the older version (9.4), the same photo with the same preset is of better quality (also smart previews).

It looks like there is a higher grain in the photo
Here are photos exported from smart previews.

Tested on: Mac pro 2013 (6core, 16gb ram, D500)

Macbook Pro 2014 2,7 ghz 4 core, 16gb ram

10.0:

Ver.10.0-b0348375-7ee4-43f6-bacf-3bf7316fa4d7-546901345.jpg

9.4:

Ver9.4-bc03ff63-1ef6-43e0-9ea4-dd2806a97943-358141873.jpg

Photo exported after attaching a disk with the original photo:

568_DSA7405-959a0e03-16c7-429b-8073-0ddca9b69679-298407583.jpg

[TheDigitalDog]

Had hoped this was a bug but if this was a new feature, then this ist horrible for me and my work.

It isn't a feature and again, I cannot replicate this behavior. But yeah, if you want to believe it's a feature and everyone sees the same behavior you report, fine. Fact is, I can't and don't see it. It was never reported or discussed during pre-release so I'm not alone either. 

We might get to the bottom of why you and some others see this, but not without proper feedback and data. Your call. 

[TheDigitalDog]

The Library module interpolation for 1:3 and smaller Zoom previews was changed from bicubic to nearest neighbor. 

It appears Lightroom Classic 9.3 was changed and now creates its Zoom view previews using the inaccurate nearest neighbor interpolation

This is straight from Adobe engineering? 

[Todd Shaner]

We might get to the bottom of why you and some others see this, but not without proper feedback and data. 

Andrew at the post where I reported this issue John Ellis mentioned he could not see the issue on his MacBook. So it appears this is a Windows 10 issue when 'Use GPU for display' is checked in LrC Preferences> Performance settings.

Had hoped this was a bug but if this was a new feature, then this ist horrible for me and my work.

I agree and suggest you add your Like, Follow, and Comments at the report.

[martinh25301180]

It's no matter if 'Use GPU for display' is activated or not. Both had the same result. And the problem occurs in 'filled' mode also.

OS: Windows 10 (latest)

GPU: NVidia Geforce GTX 1060

[TheDigitalDog]

So it appears this is a Windows 10 issue when 'Use GPU for display' is checked 

But I asked the OP here to adjust the GPU and he reported no difference. And we don't yet know his OS.

And where did this change in interpolation algorithm you report come from?

[Todd Shaner]

It's no matter if 'Use GPU for display' is activated or not. Both had the same result. And the problem occurs in 'filled' mode also.

After unchecking 'Use GPU for display' you need to close and reopen LrC for the change to take affect.

[martinh25301180]

I have done this for the test

[Todd Shaner]

And where did this change in interpolation algorithm you report come from?

By intuitive reasoning after comparing images resized to 33% (i.e. 1:3) using nearest neighbor interpolation to the original raw file displayed at 1:3 Zoom. They exhibit identical artifacts.

Also as mentioned at the report, "I checked LR Classic 8.4 and Camera Raw 12.3 (most current) and they both appear to use bicubic or bilinear interpolation, which does not exhibit the artifacts seen with nearest neighbor interpolation.

[TheDigitalDog]

By intuitive reasoning after comparing images resized to 33% (i.e. 1:3) using nearest neighbor interpolation to the original raw file displayed at 1:3 Zoom. They exhibit identical artifacts.

That doesn't wash. Should we ask the Adobe engineers as you know we both can, so we both know the facts? 

Also as mentioned at the report, "I checked LR Classic 8.4 and Camera Raw 12.3 (most current) and they both appear to use bicubic or bilinear interpolation, which does not exhibit the artifacts seen with nearest neighbor interpolation.

This also sounds like speculation and it's easy for both of us to find out what's going on under the hood. I suggest one or both of us do so. 

[TheDigitalDog]

I have done this for the test

Then it is clearly not the GPU. 

Now can you tell us exactly what OSs (and versions of them) you've tested and better, can you upload a DNG with the edits baked in as well as the preview? Then others can load and test this under differing configurations and operating systems as well as versions of LR.

There's no need for anyone to speculate the cause, interpolation or otherwise but there is need to get to the bottom of the issue. What's quite clear is, it doesn't affect everyone. 

[Todd Shaner]

This also sounds like speculation and it's easy for both of us to find out what's going on under the hood. I suggest one or both of us do so. 

Go for it and let us know what you find out. Whether it's an interpolation change that was implemented or a bug that was introduced LrC 8.4 does not exhibit the issue on the same Windows 10 platform using the same graphics driver. Either way it needs to be fixed. 

Whether the OP here is experiencing this issue or something else remains to be determined, but at least one other Windows 10 user at my report confirmed they can see the issue.

[TheDigitalDog]

Go for it and let us know what you find out.

I suppose since you never did, but made such reports of a code-base preview, algorithm change, I will do so. 

In the meantime, maybe you can explain what you see below, a preview in LR5 and a preview in LR10, both in Library, both from updated previews in each application using different preview/lrdata, that indicates why you believe, without any data from the team, that the interpolation algorithm changed. Both are zoomed to 33%. 

And if you would rather examine the higher resolution TIFF, it's here:

http://digitaldog.net/files/LR5vsLR10Lib.tif

[Todd Shaner]

Andrew, I already stated Mac systems do not have the issue. You're using a Mac system correct? Give it a try on a Windows 10 system!

[TheDigitalDog]

Andrew, I already stated Mac systems do not have the issue. You're using a Mac system correct? Give it a try on a Windows 10 system!

You are not making sense to me.

Yes I am on a Mac.

The OP has tried BOTH Mac and Windows and sees the issue.

The OP tried both with and without GPU.

Mac or Windows, what you reported about previews and interpolation algorithms is Unsubstantiated. 

So please explain to me what you are talking about.

[Todd Shaner]

I suggest the OP export an image file with the issue to DNG file format and upload to Dropbox or other file sharing site. Then we can look at it on our systems for further troubleshooting.

The OP has tried BOTH Mac and Windows and sees the issue.

Here's what he said......I don't see Mac listed.

It's no matter if 'Use GPU for display' is activated or not. Both had the same result. And the problem occurs in 'filled' mode also.

OS: Windows 10 (latest)

GPU: NVidia Geforce GTX 1060

[TheDigitalDog]

Here's what he said......I don't see Mac listed.

He wrote this above:

Can you not comprehend this? Here is this the same on all PCs and MACs i have tested. 

Not that this has anything to do with preview interpolation algorithms. 

[martinh25301180]

I don't use DNG. I'm just only working with RAW Files from my Canon Bodys (EOS R & EOS 5DIII) and with tiff after editing with photoshop

[martinh25301180]

I have only tested it on three Windows 10 PC's but the same issue was seen by two others photographers in our facebook group on her mac. 

[TheDigitalDog]

Martin, you can upload a proprietary raw and sidecar but just EXPORTING a DNG bakes all this and a JPEG preview into the DNG and makes testing easier. 

[TheDigitalDog]

I have only tested it on three Windows 10 PC's but the same issue was seen by two others photographers in our facebook group on her mac. 

Getting a DNG from one of the Mac users would help also.

[Todd Shaner]

Use the Export module with the below settings to create the DNG file. As Andrew mentions it will contain all of your LrC edits.

[martinh25301180]

You mean a raw file with my LR settings?

[martinh25301180]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y6hzwf4ytexja41/AAAV5k4beT5dehZjNd7oC404a?dl=0

[TheDigitalDog]

If you upload a proprietary raw, the editing data is in an associated sidecar file. And if use a fixed/certain camera profile we need that too in order to exactly see on our end, what you see from your data and edits. This is why exporting a DNG as shown ensures all this is contained in one document to upload.

[TheDigitalDog]

OK good, got the DNG and I see ALL your edits which is necessary. 

First, when I import into LR10, I DO see a big difference as you describe, between Library and Develop at 33%. The preview in Develop looks very odd. But if I use the Update DNG Preview and Metadata command, and zoom in to 1:1 and back out to 33%, the odd preview goes away, and greatly matches Library. You can see the three screen captures below, it should be obvious which module since I kept some of the UI in the captures. The last is the screen shot AFTER this update of metadata and preview. 

Something is odd on your end, creating the previews used in Develop I believe because that preview, shown above looks pretty awful.

We can try to drill down farther but you might try converting to DNG, and trying the update command, maybe even on another machine, maybe a Mac. And I can upload your DNG after I did this update so you can see if you still see the odd preview in Develop. 

Develop after import:

Library Preview

 

Develop module after update of metadata and preview: