P: Poor photo in the library and develop module - smart previews

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I have a problem with version 10.0,
the photo is of poor quality in the library and in the develop module. I use smart previews (the disk with the original photos is disconnected).
smart previews in version 10.0 have poorer quality than in version 9.4
When I install the older version (9.4), the same photo with the same preset is of better quality (also smart previews).

It looks like there is a higher grain in the photo
Here are photos exported from smart previews.

Tested on: Mac pro 2013 (6core, 16gb ram, D500)

Macbook Pro 2014 2,7 ghz 4 core, 16gb ram

10.0:

Ver.10.0-b0348375-7ee4-43f6-bacf-3bf7316fa4d7-546901345.jpg

9.4:

Ver9.4-bc03ff63-1ef6-43e0-9ea4-dd2806a97943-358141873.jpg

Photo exported after attaching a disk with the original photo:

568_DSA7405-959a0e03-16c7-429b-8073-0ddca9b69679-298407583.jpg

[TheDigitalDog]

Updated and resaved/exported DNG in my dropbox:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/weddz4uhkktto9p/Updated8G2A7866.dng?dl=0

[TheDigitalDog]

One more possibly interesting data point. I imported your DNG into LR5. It does NOT show up in B&W and one reason there could be a severe disconnect is in LR5, I see PV (Process Version) set for PV2012 in that old version. Makes sense, the newer PV didn't exist back then. But I also do NOT see the odd previews in Develop and the preview there and Library, although both in color, match very closely. Now both preview database files (LR5 vs. LR10) differ. But it is somewhat of an interesting find and maybe this will help Adobe if we can get them your DNG after you do more testing (perhaps in LR10, start from scratch but with an older PV?). 

[TheDigitalDog]

When I open your DNG in ACR 13, I see the odd preview for a split second and then ACR updates and there is no weird preview. So try opening your DNG there too. 

[martinh25301180]

The updatet dng in my LR (Library). There is no change

[TheDigitalDog]

The updatet dng in my LR (Library). There is no change

It's in color, so there's a change. Is this my DNG from my Dropbox? If so, something is really off on your system and I don't know what. We may need to get actual system info (you can do this under LR's "Help" menu, send your DNG and mine to Adobe. And do try opening both my DNG and your original in ACR; any difference? 

[TheDigitalDog]

Do you agree based on what you see on your end, the preview in Develop is wrong? It looks awful on this end, massive noise clumps, but in Library, it looks as I'd expect and do see when I update the previews on a Mac. 

If you agree, that in Develop, that preview is what's off, I still have to wonder if this is an ACR cache issue. Lr will then go to the Camera Raw cache and find the corresponding cache file. If none exists it will render it out. The speed up comes from having the Camera Raw Cache version available. Once again, I'd try quitting LR, then find where your ACR cache is, delete it forcing LR to create a cache file again. If you still see an issue, that kind of points to the creating of this cache. 

[Todd Shaner]

OK good, got the DNG and I see ALL your edits which is necessary. 

First, when I import into LR10, I DO see a big difference as you describe, between Library and Develop at 33%.

When I first import the DNG file and view it at Fit view the Library module is slightly noisier than the Develop module. If I set Zoom to 33% the Library and Develop modules look identical with the expected Grain setting. Even increasing Sharpening Amount to 100 does not reveal the interpolation issue I thought might be causing the issue. I tested a few other Canon EOS R CR3 files and they all exhibit the Library module interpolation artifacts at 33% Zoom view. So in short I can't duplicate what the OP is seeing (noise in Library module) on my Windows 10 system.

[martinh25301180]

Re-Import my own dng - this is also in color. The prewiew in develop ist ok. The Problem ist only the library in full mode.

Maybe the is the same problem like my other: https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/lightroom-classic/lightroom-classic-bug-on-synchronizin...

[martinh25301180]

Do you have any idea where to find the acr cache?

Edit: Found. But there is nothing. The folder ist complete empty

[TheDigitalDog]

 Even increasing Sharpening Amount to 100 does not reveal the interpolation issue I thought might be causing the issue. 

There is NO interpolation issue, please get past that concept. You've made this concept up in two differing posts, and there's zero proof that anything was changed, nor can I replicate this in LR10 down to LR5. 

There IS an issue with the OP's image/preview as seen on this end, but updating the preview, on this end, fixes that. Now why is he getting this wonky preview in the first place? Got nothing to do with interpolation; it's just totally incorrect in how it was initially created IN Develop. 

So in short I can't duplicate what the OP is seeing (noise in Library module) on my Windows 10 system.

And I CAN on Mac OS. So it's an issue but it's got zero to do with interpolation. The preview in Develop looks awful, incorrect and updating it on Mac IN Develop 'fixes' it and it then does very closely match Library; as expected. What's going on in Develop on the OP's side creating a preview? Let's concentrate on that, not some unproven, non issue with interpolation algorithms that no one from Adobe has ever stated exist. Please. 

[martinh25301180]

Wrong Folder. Sorry 😉 LR stopped, cleared and restart. Preview in Library is the same. This ist changing if i zoom in and out. Seems ok. 

[TheDigitalDog]

It's odd it's empty, it shouldn't be if you've processed raws in Develop. Which may be part of the issue but I don't know. Again, does the large clumps of 'noise' and that really blocking image I've captured in Develop appear correct to you? IT doesn't to me and further, when I update that preview, it looks like I'd expect from those noise settings and more importantly, matches very closely the preview in Library. 

Initially you said "Horrible noise in Library Module" is it possible that the horrible noise as I see it, is actually in Develop? The previews in the two modules are totally different, different data, stored differently etc. So first thing to uncover is, which is 'wrong' and where. Then we need system info from you. Then we could really use a DNG from Mac users reporting the same issue, ideally from your raw if possible. 

[martinh25301180]

But it is no solution for me. Zoom in lasts a lot of seconds. I have tons of pictures.

[martinh25301180]

I need a reasonable library picture for selection. It is not practicable if i have to switch to develop mode.

[martinh25301180]

I edit on picture an synchronize a lot of other to this. Then i go back to library for selection. That's may way for select my pictures.

[TheDigitalDog]

But it is no solution for me. Zoom in lasts a lot of seconds. I have tons of pictures.

What solution? I'm asking you to help trouble shoot the issue. I don't understand "Zoom in lasts a lot of seconds", can you explain? 

Again, is the preview in Develop, as I've shown in the screen capture PRIOR to an update what you consider correct? It looks really wrong and awful to me. 

[martinh25301180]

I'm just talking about awful pictures in library mode. Sorry, but my english ist not so god

[martinh25301180]

Zoom in, needs 5 to 10 seconds the the picture will be better

[TheDigitalDog]

On this end, the image looks OK and as expected in Library and incorrect, ugly, blotching (like the top photo you provided in your first post) IN Develop. 

Are you saying you see the opposite? 

Again, because we need to be clear IF we move on. When I open your DNG, it looks pretty good in Library. It doesn't match Develop. In Develop module on this end, it looks like the VERY FIRST picture above of the boxer girl. But if I update the preview, it looks more like the 2nd picture above you posted of the boxer girl (far less noise). 

We need to know which is which. Which preview is 'wrong'. I suspect the wrong preview is in DEVELOP because on this end, when I update the preview, it changes and then looks like Library. Which is what I'd expect. If we try to fix this, or find the issue, we need to know which module is producing the incorrect preview. 

[martinh25301180]

Changing the grain in your dng again leads to this awful view in library again

[TheDigitalDog]

Zoom in, needs 5 to 10 seconds the the picture will be better

OK, now we're getting somewhere. Zoom in looks better where, Library or Develop? 

[martinh25301180]

Zoom in in library. I NEVER work in develop, except doing a setting. I always talking about library mode

[martinh25301180]

Library: Fit mode looks horrible, zoomin in takes 5-10 seconds, then it's ok

But only if i never change the grain. if i change the grain then it's the same agin.

Switching to develop from library without zoom in before, leads to an awful picture for one sedond, then it's ok. but switching then back to library (without changes) leads to the same awful pic

[TheDigitalDog]

Library: Fit mode looks horrible, zoomin in takes 5-10 seconds, then it's ok

Let's do this slowly, one step at a time. This behavior where zooming is slow, is this a NEW behavior or you always had to wait 5-10 seconds for it to look OK in Library. 

Switching to develop from library without zoom in before, leads to an awful picture for one sedond, then it's ok. 

Awful looking in Library; yes or no? Because above you say something about 5-10 seconds. You must zoom in to see the preview in either module correctly. 

I understand we may have a language barrier here. So I can't help unless we break down exactly what is happening and where. Maybe you and draft a step by step of where and what's happening, like:

1. Go into Develop at 33%, preview looks >>>>> (good, bad?)

2. Zoom in at 1:1, it takes XX seconds and looks >>>

3. Go to Library at XXX Zoom, preview looks>>>> 

Has ANYTHING above changed behavior from your first post here since you deleted the ACR cache? 

[martinh25301180]

Interesting: Switching your DNG to monochrome, export it as a new dng and import this again, leads to a color picture 😞 I think there ist something wrong on my LR