P: Scrolling over folders in library module doesn't work

[silent.creek]

Hi everybody,

I experienced a bug in LR scrolling behaviour within the library module. To describe the problem best, I recorded a screencast video with audio comment that I uploaded to my webserver:
http://www.silentcreek.de/lrbug/demo.avi
In short: Scrolling with the mousewheel over folders in LR's library module doesn't work properly.

Here is what I know:
1) The bug doesn't always occur. Sometimes scrolling works for a couple of days, but most times it doesn't, which is annoying, of course.
2) I could only reproduce this bug as shown in my demo video in the library module when trying to scroll with my mousewheel over the folders or publishing services. Everywhere else, it works fine.
3)The bug seems hardware independent: I experienced it on my laptop as well as my desktop (one Win 7 32bit, one Win 7 64bit; two different mice, one by MS one by Cherry).
4) I experienced this bug for quite a while with different versions of LR (currently 3.5, but the earliest version I used was 3.2)

I hope this helps to figure out the problem.

Thanks,

Timo

[silent.creek]

Just some more info:
I did some research online and found that other users experience this problem, too. See this forum thread:
http://www.lightroomforums.net/archiv...
Here a user claims that he solved the problem by killing a Kaspersky software. But another user in the same thread says that he has the same issue but doesn't use the mentioned Kaspersky software. As for myself, I don't use any Kaspersky software. Maybe his solution was just a mere coincidence, because from my experience the problem seems to occur sporadically.

[silent.creek]

Is anybody at Adobe reading this? Is tehre a way I can provide additional information to help track down this issue?

[areohbee]

I do not have this problem, so clearly identified by the video...

Lightroom version: 3.6 RC [788152]
Operating system: Windows 7 Ultimate Edition
Version: 6.1 [7601]
Application architecture: x64
System architecture: x64
Physical processor count: 4
Processor speed: 3.4 GHz
Built-in memory: 7934.1 MB
Real memory available to Lightroom: 7934.1 MB
Real memory used by Lightroom: 1849.5 MB (23.3%)
Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 1997.8 MB
Memory cache size: 1355.6 MB
System DPI setting: 96 DPI
Desktop composition enabled: Yes
Displays: 1) 1920x1200, 2) 1920x1200

(Kensington Expert Mouse Trackball, model K264325)

Was it fixed in 3.6RC?

[silent.creek]

I just downloaded LR 3.6RC and for a short moment I thought it was solved, because I could scroll over the folders. BUT: When I switched to the develop module and then back to the library, I couldn't scroll anymore.

ADDITIONAL BUG INFO:
I can now clearly reproduce a pattern! When I start LR, I can scroll over the folders in the library module. But as soon as I switched to the develop module once and then back to the library module, I can't scroll anymore. The other modules (print, web, slideshow) do not influence the scroll behaviour. It also does not matter whether I actually do something int he development module (i.e. apply adjustments on a raw file) or not. Just entering the develop module once and going back to the library is enough to trigger the bug.

So, unfortunately, still not solved.

[areohbee]

I still could not reproduce - maybe somebody else will try.

[krybik]

i've got exactly the same problem

i run LR, switch to develop module, then back to lib module and then i cant scroll it.

BUT, it occurs only if i'm in grid mode. i.e., when i switch to the Loupe mode, scrolling is working OK, then i go back to Grid and it stops working immediately.

[silent.creek]

Interesting observation, Viktor.

I just checked that, and it's the same for me. Didn't notice that before, but you're right: In Loupe mode it works, but in Grid mode it won't.

In the meantime, I also found another user with the same problem on another (German) forum. I'm trying to get his system details for a comparison.

Viktor, could you post your system details, please? Even though I already tried different mice, etc., just let me know what kind of setup you have and possibly, what applications are running in the background. Thanks.

[krybik]

Oh, I thought about running Windows in safe, have you tried it already?

Will post my config tomorrow, doesn't have it right now. The system is Windows 7 64bit, and LR's version is 3.5.

[Lee_Jay]

I can confirm this bug, exactly as described by Viktor, on Windows 7 64.

[silent.creek]

Thanks Viktor, haven't tried safe mode before. But I just tried it, and the bug occurs even there.

@Lee Jay: Thanks as well. Could you please also post your system details (hardware, software that's running in the background) here?

[J453]

Sounds like this is a known/logged issue. The team is investigating. Thanks.

[silent.creek]

@Jeffrey: Thanks. Good to know the issue is being investigated. If you need any further information or help in tracking down this bug, please let us know.

[John Hollenberg]

I spent several hours on this bug and finally fixed it on my system as follows:

1) Start msconfig
2) Change to Selective Startup
3) Disable PC Tablet Services

Now works properly, with all other services running and all startup items loaded as well.

Note: I read on one web site that Silverlight might need PC Tablet Services to use Photosynth. I checked and I have Silverlight installed. Hope this helps.

[silent.creek]

Sorry, but I CANNOT confirm this fix. I tried it but it doesn't fix the issue on my machine. Tablet PC Input services were already set to "Manual Startup". I changed it to "Disabled", restarted my computer and could still reproduce the bug in Lightroom. I even went so far as to completly remove the Tablet PC Input services from my computer (via "Control Panel", "Programs", "Turn Windows Features On and Off"), but the issue was not resolved.

[John Hollenberg]

You can still use my general method to determine where the problem lies on your system... but it is fairly time consuming:

1) Start by disabling all the startup items using msconfig
2) If that fixes the problem, enable half of them and try again
3) Keep doing this with half of the half, etc. until you find the culprit
4) If it doesn't fix the problem, disable half of the Services and try again
5) Use the same binary search method to find the problem Service

Of course, this took me about 3 hours, because you have to reboot after each change. Fortunately, my OS is on an SSD so reboot is fairly quick.

[silent.creek]

Well, I already tried to track down the issue in Windows safe mode. That means that no 3rd party was started during the boot process and only the essential services were started. The issue was not resolved.
What you forget to mention for your method, btw, is that you can run into serious issues when you disable essential system services. I will give safe mode another try though and see which services are actually started there. I'm very skeptical though.

[John Hollenberg]

It gets even stranger... I returned to Normal Startup in msconfig and the problem is still fixed for me. I am sure the the PC Tablet Services was the problem, because I disabled it and reenabled it a couple of times to make sure. I have no idea why it remains fixed.

[silent.creek]

Well, I can assure you that tablet services are not the problem. I first disabled them, and then even removed them. It din't fix the issue.
Now, I booted safe mode again. I can also assure you it is not an issue with start-up programs or services. Here you can see a list of running services:
(Please note I'm running a German Windows... "Wird ausgeführt" means "Running"). These are only essential services. I also have a list of running processes:
The only non essential process here is procexp.exe - but I only used this to abtain this process list - it was not running during my testing of Lightroom.

My test showed the same result - scrolling still doesn't work. It is not an issue related to 3rd party software or services. There is something else wrong with Lightroom.

And btw., how do you test for the issue? Because when I first tried your suggested solution, I thought it was resolved but then realized I haven't even triggered the scrolling issue yet. As we have established in this thread, the issue is triggered as follows: Go into the Develop Module first! (If you dont do that first, scrolling will work.) Then switch to the Library Module. Make sure you are in Grid view! (Again, this is important, because if you are in Loupe view, scrolling will work.) Then try scrolling and if you are affected by the issue, scrolling over folder doesn't work. But, as we already established as well, most users aren't even affected.

As for your solution, I'd say it was a mere coincidence. I'm not saying, the issue isn't resolved for you. Maybe you did something else that solved the issue for you and because it happened at the same time you disabled tablet services, you assumed this was the solution. But, unfortunately, it's not.

Thanks anyway, maybe we can keep tracking the issue down.

Regards,

Timo

[John Hollenberg]

I am testing using the method you describe: go to Develop, then Library Grid. I am totally stumped here. Probably tomorrow the problem will be back for me. Why some users have the problem, but most apparently don't is beyond me.

[John Hollenberg]

Problem is back again. Looks like I am going to have to give up on this one. Completely stumped.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I am also experiencing this issue on the new notebook.

Tried without success:
- different mouse
- disabling Tablet PC Service

Noticed:
- inability to scroll seems to depend on which field the mouse pointer 'hovers' over
- inability to scroll happens only if mouse pointer 'hovers' over input field that reacts in some way - e.g. field shows tool tip, or changes background - let me call this field 'responding' field
- if I position mouse pointer over 'non-responding' field (e.g. next to "Metadata" heading, I can scroll until another 'responding' field is hit underneath the mouse pointer - e.g. "File Name" - my scrolling is set at lines per click
- similar behavior in left panel with the exception that the only fields preventing scrolling seem to be "Hard Drive", "Facebook", Flickr", SmugMug"

[John Hollenberg]

For me it happens on both desktop and laptop. Turns out the "fix" is partial--folders area works now, but fields in right panel don't.

[silent.creek]

@john Smith:
Interesting observations. I can confirm these patterns (that scrolling works unless it's over a "responsive" area/field"). However, I noticed one more thing that makes the whole matter more complicated again:
As pointed out earlier in this thread, the scrolling issue seemed to occur only in Grid view. In Loupe view, I can scroll through my folders. Yet, with your hints, I found out it's more complicated than that. Even in loupe view, some fields remain unscrollable - it's just much less than in grid view. E.g. whereas in grid view I cannot scroll over the full folders list, in loupe view I can scroll over the folders, but not that line with the harddrive's name and letter.
In the right panel, e.g., I cannot hover over the captions "Keyword Suggestions" or "Keyword Sets" when I'm in Grid view. When I'm in loupe mode, I can scroll over these, but the actually entries remain unscrollable.
Furthermore, some of these captions like "Keyword Suggestions" are not "responsive" - they don't show a caption when you hover them, nor are these changeable.

One more question: I noticed earlier that in the Develop module the small 1:1 preview in the Detail Tab is not scrollable (i.e. scrolling stops as soon as your mouse hovers that litlle preview). I thought it's just supposed to be that way. But is it really? Or is this part of the bug behaviour? Maybe someone who is not eaffected by the bug can tell.

Thanks again,

Timo

[silent.creek]

Just a short update: I just updated my LR installation to the newly released version 3.6 (final) and the bug still persists. Well, of course I didnt really hope that a fix would make it that fast into a new release - but just so you know.

Are there any new insights on behalf of Adobe?

Regards,

Timo

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Problem persists in LR 3.6