Cloud syncing of photos with AI masks

Report · Dec 28, 2023

There seems to be a significant bug syncing photos with AI masks between Lr desktop and LrC classic.

The bug makes syncing photos with AI masks between Lr desktop and LrC classic unworkably unreliable.

Around 90% of AI masks created in Lr desktop and around 30% of AI masks created in LrC classic results in those photos being blocked from editing in Lr desktop / Lr mobile / Lr web - as soon as I sync LrC classic

If I do sync photos with AI masks from Lr desktop to LrC classic, almost all those photos then become “blocked” in Lr desktop (and in Lr mobile and in Lr web) and I am then unable to do any further editing in Lr desktop, unless I first “reset” (and loose) all my previous settings (edits).
This undermines the logic of the Lightroom ecosystem, because I cannot use AI masks if I want to sync those photos to LrC.

I travel 300 days per year and upload and edit most of my 20,000 photos a year using Lr desktop on my MacBook.

When I get home, I then sync my MacStudio desktop with the cloud. This worked perfectly until about 4 months ago

I was perfectly happy paying Adobe £30 per month.

I then started having more and more photos that “synced metadata” endlessly in LrC classic and were then blocked from any further editing in Lr desktop / Lr mobile / Lr web.
This started happening to more and more of my photos and has now become a serious problem for my workflow.

I am no longer happy paying £30 per month to Adobe.

So I spent the last 5 days trying to work out what the cause / trigger / problem was.
- The answer is AI masks

Sake good order, my set up is as follows (each with the latest current versions):

MacBook Pro

Sonoma 14.2.1
Lr desktop 7.1.2

MacStudio Pro

Sonoma 14.2.1
LrC classic 13.1 and Camera Raw 16.1
Lr desktop 7.1.2

iPhone 14 Pro

IOS 17.2.1
Lr mobile 9.1.0

More details

When I sync photos with AI masks to/from LrC classic the following happens:

The Cloud sync window of LrC shows that photos with AI masks sync endlessly (many days - never stopped). NB the LrC Catalog pane on the left does NOT show any “sync errors”. Here is a screen shot from the LrC classic Cloud sync window:

When you try to edit any photos which are shown in the LrC Cloud sync window as “Uploading Metadata” in Lr desktop, Lr mobile or Lr web, I get the following warning pane:

If I reset the settings, then I have to start my editing for that photo from scratch again.

If I try to add an AI mask again, as soon as I sync with LrC classic, the same problem happens and the photo again gets blocked “waiting for settings”.
Removing the photo from Lightroom and from disk (LrC classic) and re-importing it does not solve the problem. As soon as I put an AI mask in a photo and sync with LrC classic, the same problem re-occurs.
I have tried making other minor edits such as adding +1 to exposure (as suggested online by a number of Adobe engineers), but that makes no difference.

Curiously, photos with AI masks made in Lr desktop do show correctly in LrC classic and CAN be further edited in LrC classic (but NOT in Lr desktop, Lr mobile or Lr web).

If I delete the AI masks in LrC classic, the endless “upload metadata” sync disappears within a few minutes – and the rest of my edits remain (eg are saved). That photo is then also no longer “blocked” in Lr desktop, Lr mobile, Lr web and I can edit it again.
Just so long as I do NOT add any AI masks… else I immediately get the same problem again.

I then tested whether creating the AI masks in Lr desktop or in Lr classic made a difference – it does:

Around 95% (16/17) of the AI masks I created in Lr mobile cause the endless “upload metadata” sync and block any further editing in Lr desktop, Lr mobile or Lr web (but only after syncing with LrClassic)
But only around 20% (3/16) of AI masks I created in LrC caused the same problem, when I then synced LrC classic with the Cloud (and with Lr desktop, Lr mobile and Lr web)

Lastly, I also tried rebuilding sync data from LrC classic (press “option” key in Cloud sync window in LrC classic)

Given I have 90,000+ photos this takes around 14 hours, so I have only done it once.
It does seem to fix the problem and removes the endless "upload metadata" sync problem – and removes the block from editing those photos with AI masks in Lr desktop, Lr mobile and Lr web.
But it is completely impractical to have to rebuild all my sync data every time I upload photos with AI masks created in Lr desktop on my laptop…

Please can you help sort this out, as it seems impossible to edit and create AI masks in Lr desktop AND sync with LrC classic…?

Report · Dec 28, 2023

Here is the Lightroom Classic Sync Diagnostic report for the bug syncing photos with AI masks between Lr desktop and LrC classic, reported on 28 December 2023 by Pyers Tucker

Report · Dec 28, 2023

I have been extremely frustrated by this bug. I get constant sync hangs with images syncing metadata in Classic. Quitting and reopening Classic solves that for a few minutes but it is extremely frustrating that Adobe cannot seem to get this thing right. Thanks for chasing down that it might be AI masks. That actually makes a lot of sense.

Report · Dec 29, 2023

HOW TO AVOID getting endless "uploading metadata" Cloud sync problem to/from LrC classic and the subsequent blocking of the ability to edit those photos in Lr desktop, Lr mobile or Lr web?

DON'T create AI masks in photos you intend to sync with LrC classic

HOW TO FIX photos which get the endless "uploading metadata" Cloud sync problem to/from LrC classic and the subsequent blocking of the ability to edit those photos in Lr desktop, Lr mobile or Lr web?

There seem to be two solutions (as far as I have been able to find):
- Open the photos in LrC in Develop, then open the Mask tab and delete all AI based masks in that photo.
- Within a few minutes the "uploading metadata" Cloud sync problem showing in the LrC classic Cloud sync window will disappear and you will be able to edit that photo in Lr desktop, Lr mobile or Lr web again.
The other alternative is to rebuild you sync data - which can take up to 16 hours if you have 90,000+ photos in your catalogue like I do. (Go to the Cloud sync details window in LrC classic, press "Option" key in MacOS and select "Rebuild sync data")
- Sake good order I find that when I have 30 or 40 photos endlessly trying to "upload metadata" from LrC and I rebuild all my sync data I seem to always have one or two photos which remain a problem. I then have no choice but to remove the AI masks from those photos.

CAVEATS

I have spent 5 days trying to work out what is causing this endless metadata upload Cloud sync problem/blocking editing in Lr ecosystem.
How to avoid getting the problem - and how to fix it ,when you do have the problem, works 100% for me with multiple different tests replicating the problem (inserting AI masks, syncing to the Cloud with LrC and seeing what happened)
However I have found that NOT ALL PHOTOS WITH AI MASKS trigger this problem.
- Some photos with AI masks Cloud sync with LrC fine.
- But most do not.
- I have not yet managed to find what other factors are at work here. I suspect it might be something to do with the combination of cropping and AI masks - but I have not tested this? What I can say is that of 33 photograps into which I put AI masks (17 in Lr desktop and 16 in LrC classic), 16/17 masks inserted in Lr desktop triggered this Cloud sync/edit blocking problem, but only 3/16 of the masks inserted in LrC classic triggered the problem, when I did a Cloud sync with LrC classic.
- So there is something else at work here as well. I leave that to Adobe to find.

Hope this helps - and that Adobe can fix this bug before too long.

Pyers Tucker

Report · Jan 31, 2024

Thank you for this. I have the same issue and very frustrating since I use the masking feature frequently and sync with all. Excuse if I missed this but did you find if the mask is done on either LRC or LR both create the issue?

Report · Feb 02, 2024

Hi, I found that AI supported masks I first created in LR always caused a
problem after I subsequently synced with LRC. AI supported masks I first
created in LRC frequently caused a problem - but not always. There must be
some other factor in play.

The problem was that the LRC sync for those photos perpetually shows
"uploading metadata" from LRC" This locks that photo in LR, LR Mobile and
LR web. But NOT in LRC. You CAN still edit in LRC - and remove the AI
supported masks, if you want. Doing this ALWAYS cleared the "Uploading
metadata" error in LRC and removed the "lock" for that photo in LR, LR
Mobile and LR web within 10 minutes.

The only other solution I was able to find, was to rebuild all my sync data
from LRC. This resolved about 95% of the photos with this problem. But that
of course can take a lot of time, if you have 90,000 photos like I do,
which takes 6-9 hours!

The gentleman from Adobe said he could not replicate the problem on his
systems and was unable to help further, as he said "not that many people
seem to be reporting this". I (and you and others) are however not making
this up! My conclusion is that there must be some setting / aspect of my
(and clearly other people as well) system/broadband/service
provider/Adobe/Lightroom setup, which is triggering this problem - but not
with the gentleman from Adobe's system.

But I am at a loss for working out how to get my setup to work without
problem, in the way the Adobe gentleman's system seems to work.

I therefore refrain from syncing with LRC until I have a lot of new photos
uploaded to the Cloud from LR with AI supported masks - and then do one big
sync, wait for all the downloads from the Cloud to LRC, wait for LRC to
stablise with however many "uploading metadata" errors - and then rebuild
all the sync data from LRC.

Not very satisfactory, but the best I have been able to figure out.

Report · Dec 29, 2023

Apologies - there is a typo in my original post. Halfway down the sub-bullet:

"Around 95% (16/17) of the AI masks I created in Lr mobile cause..."

should read:

"Around 95% (16/17) of the AI masks I created in Lr desktop cause..."

Mea culpa...

Report · Jan 02, 2024

Thank you for your detailed research. I cannot confirm the results you are seeing as I have many recent AI Masks that are syncing with no issues.

I don't see the answer to one question in your description: What type of AI Masks?
Are they all Select Sky? Select Subject, Select Person? Select Skin? Some detail on the types of AI masks (All or some or specific types) would help diagnose.

Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org

Report · Jan 02, 2024

Dear Rikk,

Firstly, best wishes for the New Year and 2024!

Thank you for looking at this.

I do have "automatically write metadata to files" enabled in the Catalog settings of my LrC classic. I do not know if that matters?

I only used subject and background AI masks. I did not try sky, object or person masks or lens blur. I did once try heal with content-aware removal. That photo also triggered the "upload metadata" error message in the LrC classic Cloud sync details window within 5 - 10 minutes of syncing with LrC classic.

It did not seem to matter whether the photos with problems with AI masks were JPG or RAW (Nikon NEF).

I also yesterday tried a context aware heal and that also triggered the LrC classic endless “metadata upload” error in the LrC classic Cloud sync window. As soon as I removed the context aware heal and replaced it with an ‘old’ heal, the problem went away within minutes.

When you say you have a number of recent photos with AI masks which sync OK, are you syncing within the Cloud (eg between Lr desktop, Lr mobile and Lr web) - which all work fine and do not cause any problems. It is only when I sync photos with AI masks (subject and/or background) between LrC classic and the Cloud that for most photos I get a "uploading metadata" error message for those photos within 5 - 10 minutes? As soon as I go into LrC classic Develop for those photos and delete the subject/background masks the error message "uploading metadata" disappears within 5-10 mins from the LrC classic Cloud sync details window.

It is a real shame because the AI masks and heals are revolutionary - but I just cannot seem to use them and sync with LrC classic?

Given the way my Lightroom LrC seems to work, the only work-around I can think of is to:

Keep creating AI masks in Lr desktop and sync with LrC classic whenever I get home.
Just accept that after syncing with LrC classic most will show the "uploading metadata" error message (and block any further editing of that photo in Lr Desktop, Lr mobile and Lr web).
Wait until I have a bunch of photos with this error message and it is worth taking 10 hours or so to rebuild all my sync data from the LrC classic Cloud sync details window.
That seems to clear all the "uploading metadata" error messages. But please note that as soon as I make any adjustments to those AI based masks or add any new ones - I again get the "uploading metadata" error message.

I would be quite happy to get online with you when I am back home in UK (eg where my LrC on my MacStudio is) and share my screen and show you what happens when I insert a subject or backround mask in a photo, wait for the sync, see the error message appear, go into LrC classic Develop and remove the masks, and wait for the error message to disappear again.

Kind regards,

Pyers Tucker

Report · Jan 03, 2024

Keep in mind that AI-Selection-Based Masks have a pixel component.

If I put a brush stroke on an image, its impact on the uploaded file size impact is essentially a few lines of text.

If I use a Content-Aware-Heal or an AI selection, a pixel version of that mask is included with the file, making it much larger. This increases sync time dramatically. Depending upon your network environment and your ISP this can impact negatively.

In any case, there aren't widespread reports of this issue, and I cannot replicate it.

Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org

Report · Jan 03, 2024

Hi Rikk,

Thank you again for getting back.

If you cannot replicate something that I experience 100% consistently, there must be something wrong with the setting / preferences of my LrC classic. It is not my network environment as I have a 500 mbps download and 900 mbps upload which is working at that level for all my other applications. It must be something else.

I wonder whether that "something" might be that I have "automatically write metadata to files" enabled - which slows metadata updates down a lot? I will try switching that off when I get back home to my MacStudio with LrC classic in two weeks time - and get back to you with the result.

Sake good order, I am NOT making this up! If you join me online and I can share my screen and show you exactly what goes on - and I DO have a problem and my LrC classic is NOT performing in the way it should (at least with the way my LrC classic is currently set up). From the upvotes you will also see I am far from the only person with this issue...

I will get back to you in two weeks time with the outcome of disabling"automatically write metadata to files"!

Report · Feb 15, 2024

Curious if anyone's made any progress figuring this general issue out, or figured out workarounds that are reliable. I'm facing the same fundamental problem, excellently laid out by @Pyers Tucker in terms of what happens and what doesn't and when. Perhaps in a slightly different boat in terms of tackling it from initial and ongoing volume perspective.

I've got a whole batch of images that came down, many with AI masks (created in LrD) during an initial LrD > LrC sync. The ones with AI masks are now in this purgatory. They're "waiting for edits" in LrD/Cloud and "uploading metadata" in LrC. The mask types include spot removals, people, subject, object, and sky masks.

I have not had luck with rebuilding the sync database in LrC—I think. While that's a shorter process for me (~4.4k photos), it isn't a reliable fix. That said, in my situation, I also don't know if it's helping to fix most of the images. Not all of the images ultimately with mask sync issues show as "stuck" uploading metadata immediately after a sync rebuild. Most of them, I stumble upon in LrD/LrM by chancing upon a photo "waiting for settings."

When I go to such a photo in LrC and "touch" it (some sort of edit adjustment to trigger a sync—doesn't have to be editing the mask specifically), it then shows up in the LrC sync status window and we're back to the original issue.

The one time I was able to explicitly see that I fixed an image in LrC and got it "un-stuck" was an image only using AI spot removal rather than full object/sky/person masks. Moving all of the spot removal areas just slightly in LrC jogged it loose. It synced the mask metadata up, the "waiting for edits" disappeared, and it began syncing back and forth without issue. Editing one spot didn't work—had to be all 4. Playing around with other images by editing the masks themselves in LrC didn't work. I was even able to force an image to do an AI rebuild of other types of masks in LrC once or twice, but there was no change.

I too only have mixed luck using reset in LrD—while I have LrD/Cloud versions with the image that have the masking and my latest edits, it will only sync up out of LrD if I choose a version that doesn't have the mask. Otherwise, it gets stuck in the "uploading" sync state in LrD. Syncing a version without a mask, watching that go through, and then changing back to a version with a mask gets stuck on LrD upload again. There are a ton of permutations with "reset," but none of them end up working beyond "don't use any AI mask."

Personally, it's also intensely frustrating in the large batch situation that there's no way to even identify all of the images that are a problem. So, no way to try to address as a group, or even one by one and be sure I've gotten everything. Or maybe the rebuild is helping cut the numbers down, but I can't tell.

Again, I know my specific needs around a large initial batch are different from the ongoing workflow others in this thread are dealing with, but it's the same basic sync issue.

--

I'm also on MacOS Sonoma v14.3.1; LrC 13.1; LrD 7.1.2; on a MBP 2020 13" M1. I have mobile in the mix too, but those devices generally don't even have the most recent cloud versioning to revert to, as LrD does. So LrD is where full local cloud originals live, and any resets need to happen there. Thus, I've just been relying on LrD and LrW as representations of what's in the cloud side of the ecosystem.

Report · Feb 20, 2024

An update was released for your version of Lightroom today. Please update and verify that you are still experiencing this failure. If you are, please respond to this thread. Thank you!

Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org

Report · Feb 21, 2024

Unfortunately, looks like I am still seeing it in one case after upgrading LrC/LrD/ACR to 13.2/7.2/16.2, still on Sonoma 14.3.1.

I don't have many photos to test this on at this point, as I ended up just re-importing every problem image into LrD from a backup after my last post—that seemed to reset everything at that point, and I wasn't having sync errors.

I did subsequently run into one image getting stuck in the same way on a mask created in LrC. After this latest set of Lightroom software updates, I restored the mask on that problem image using the history pane. Unfortunately, that results in the same pending masks/waiting for edits issue.

The problem image is/was: Enhanced (Denoise) version of a DNG shot with Halide on an iPhone 12. These edits had already been made in LrC prior to the enhance: Auto settings; change profile to built-in adobe preset; point curve and whites adjustment; HDR editing enabled (restricted to one stop); and a sky mask applied. Only adjustments to sky mask at any point were dehaze and noise reduction—no adjustments to actual mask area via addition/subtraction. No other masks. (Note: Enhanced/Denoise was not ever correlated with the issue in the past; I'm not sure it's pertinent here.)

--

I tried reproducing these exact steps post-update with the image w/sky mask—Denoise 50 on the original DNG with the same settings. This newly produced DNG did not have issues uploading the pending mask. I'm a little hesitant to say that updates have completely fixed the issue for images going forward, as it's been an intermittent issue all along and this is only one example. But—based on what you know, is it possible that it's only fixed this for images with masks created going forward?

[Edit: I did just find one other image with AI spot removal that did not get fixed in my batch update; it was Waiting for Edits in LrD. Going back to LrC and looking at the image triggered the stuck metadata pending masks upload. Interestingly, it's also an Enhanced Denoise DNG, although I know that the spot removal was applied after the enhance in this case.]

I will try testing a number of new AI masks created in both LrD and LrC as I can to see if I run into any more issues.

I have not tried rebuilding sync data yet to see if that fixes the pre-update mask issue. The rebuild didn't work very consistently/at all in the past for me. I'll give it a shot if you think it's worth a try in this case.

--

No matter what, I'm really happy that Adobe is acknowledging that some folks are having this issue and taking aim at it—thanks, @Rikk Flohr: Photography. And the new smart collection criteria around masking etc will be helpful in tracking these down!

Report · Jun 14, 2024

I currently have the same issues. Updated to Lightroom Classic (Desktop) 13.0 and any photos edited with AI masks on this version, whilst syncing with Lightroom, do not show in Lightroom, only those without any AI masking. Funilly, all photos edited with Lightroom Classic (Desktop) 12.0 and earlier DO show properly edited in Lightroom.

Recently updated to Lightroom Classic 13.1 and Lightroom 7.3.

Tested sync with photos with AI masking and with no AI masking and only the ones, newly taken and edited on LRC 13.0 with no AI masking display properly on LR 7.3.

Report · Jun 14, 2024

Further see message . . . .

Report · Jun 14, 2024

Apologies, using Lightroom Classic (Desktop) 13.3.1