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Controls uniformity across Creative Suite

Explorer ,
Apr 07, 2024 Apr 07, 2024

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Can someone explain why Adobe is not capable to implement controls uniformity across LRC, CR and PS? Why can't zoom and brushes use the same shorcuts and behaviour across those apps? This is beyond annoying and stupid. 

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LEGEND ,
Apr 07, 2024 Apr 07, 2024

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This simply wasn't part of the design process.

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Explorer ,
Apr 09, 2024 Apr 09, 2024

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That is simply exactly the flaw what should be corrected. 

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LEGEND ,
Apr 09, 2024 Apr 09, 2024

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I'm not sure that Adobe considers it a "flaw". I doubt such a change will happen.

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Community Expert ,
Apr 09, 2024 Apr 09, 2024

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Lightroom Classic is an alternative to Camera Raw and Bridge, they both provide the ability to render RAW images the major difference is with LrC the info is stored in the Catalog file and Camera Raw stores info with the image utilizing XMP sidecars for the RAW files. and cannot read or write to the Catalog.

Make a choice, use one or the other.

Regards, Denis: iMac 27” mid-2015, macOS 11.7.10 Big Sur; 2TB SSD, 24 GB Ram, GPU 2 GB; LrC 12.5, Lr 6.5, PS 24.7,; ACR 15.5,; Camera OM-D E-M1

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Explorer ,
Apr 09, 2024 Apr 09, 2024

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I thank you but this info has no value or relation to what I am emphasizing. Also, in both cases, there is the same problem. LrC and CR do follow the same tools protocols while PS does not. Most photographers will use one of the RAW developers and PS which means the workflow is not streamlined as it is, btw, in Affinity. 

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LEGEND ,
Apr 09, 2024 Apr 09, 2024

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I think you are beating a dead horse here. Maybe you should post in "Ideas" and follow these guidelines: https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/how-do-i-write-a-feature-request/idi-p/123863...

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Community Expert ,
Apr 09, 2024 Apr 09, 2024

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Some of that is due to history. Photoshop was originally designed in the early 1990s for the Mac, so many of its design decisions are based on the tool behaviors on that platform at that time.

 

Camera Raw came out in the mid-2000s and Lightroom in 2007. By then things had changed a lot, so the designers of those apps took advantage of some newer thinking. But Photoshop did not change, because if they did, all the people who had been using it since 1990 would complain.

 

They could bring in a software dictator and force all programs to work the same. That might be nice, but it will anger some who do not want to re-learn how to do things. That is a big part of the problem. Different people will be angry no matter what they do. One group will be unhappy if they change Photoshop to be like Lightroom, another group will be unhappy if they change Lightroom to be like Photoshop. In fact people will be unhappy even if they change nothing, which is what they currently do…and you are unhappy with that. 🙂

 

Yes, they could also put in some options to let you choose which way you want to do it. But they try not to do that very often, because as things keep changing, by the year 2050 there will be 200 settings just for letting you make various features work the old way or the new way, and they would like to avoid that complexity.

 

It's not an easy problem to solve, it affects just about all software companies above a certain age. Some companies decide to blow up everything and start over with a modernized interface unified across all apps and devices…and that always makes people angry; Apple has gone through that.

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Explorer ,
Apr 10, 2024 Apr 10, 2024

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Yes, I understand the history, however, for a multibillion company it should not be a problem to implement a setting "use Photoshop zoom and brushes" option. There is no need to remove the present behaviour for the ones who like it. We have this use "new" or "old" even in Adobe apps already. Also, standardising the behaviour would be an investment in the future, not a hindrance, as future changes could be made across the pixel apps. The reality is that there is probably some kind of disconnect and lack of strategy between their project teams. Pitty. 

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Community Expert ,
Apr 10, 2024 Apr 10, 2024

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I agree that this situation is far from ideal, but the problem is that solving it will also be far from ideal. Let's take a practical example. In Photoshop the crop tool shortcut is 'C', in Lightroom Classic it is 'R'. So in one app this must change. If the crop tool shortcut in Lightroom Classic is changed to 'C', then this does not only mean that Lightroom Classic users will have to get used to the new shortcut, it also means that the shortcut for Compare view must change, because that is currently 'C'. I'm sure that will piss off more Lightroom Classic users than please Lightroom Classic users because the crop tool short cut is now consistent with Photoshop...

-- Johan W. Elzenga

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LEGEND ,
Apr 10, 2024 Apr 10, 2024

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Agreed, this would likely anger many users. Even the suggestion from @Maruhana to produce an option in which users can leave the keyboard shortcuts as is, or select to have them match Photoshop, is something I am not in favor of. It causes Adobe to do work that will not benefit most LrC users who are happy and content with the existing keyboard shortcuts, and it causes Adobe to put less work into other enhancements and new features that will likely benefit a lot more users.

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Explorer ,
Apr 10, 2024 Apr 10, 2024

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You guys are not photographers I guess. A huge percentage of photos developed by LrC or CR goes to be edited further in PS. Also, both apps are in the Photo Suite etc ... Those are 2 steps of the same process for the majority. I am baffled you guys are not aware of that. 

 

Anyway, this is a futile conversation. 

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Community Expert ,
Apr 10, 2024 Apr 10, 2024

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quote

You guys are not photographers I guess. A huge percentage of photos developed by LrC or CR goes to be edited further in PS. Also, both apps are in the Photo Suite etc ... Those are 2 steps of the same process for the majority. I am baffled you guys are not aware of that. 

 

Anyway, this is a futile conversation. 


By @Maruhana


What makes you think we are not aware of that? Of course we are, but that doesn't change the things I said. I use Lightroom Classic and Photoshop every day, and teach both apps. I know what shortcuts to use in both apps. Do I ever make a mistake and press 'C' in Lightroom Classic when I wanted to activate the crop tool? Sure, that has happened a few times. But not nearly enough times to bother about it. This is indeed a futile conversation, because Adobe is not going to change this.

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga

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Community Expert ,
Apr 10, 2024 Apr 10, 2024

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You guys are not photographers I guess.

By @Maruhana

 

That's jumping to a conclusion. Many of the people responding to you have used Photoshop and Lightroom for many years, and are photographers.

 

Here’s the deal. What you are asking for is a legitimate request. Of course it would be nice to have more consistency. There is nothing wrong with wanting that. In fact, Adobe would agree with you, because if you look at for example the keyboard shortcut editor in some Adobe apps, they offer alternate shortcut sets if you want one app’s shortcut to match another app. (Of course one problem here is that the Lightroom apps do not have a keyboard shortcut editor, that is a whole other feature request that I support.)

 

There is nothing wrong with your request in isolation. But the problem is that it can't be fixed in isolation. There is a context here, and understanding the context is the key to the entire answer.

 

The context is priorities. There is a lot on the plate of every application’s software development team. There are a lot of great ideas. You can look at the feature request list on this website (the Ideas category) and see hundreds of feature requests. So given limited person-hours, one priority is, which of those hundreds of features get done first?

 

Related to that are other priorities: What other jobs are the programmers supposed to be working on? These can vary across the different product teams. One priority is bugs that must be fixed, those need time. Another is that individual product teams may be asked to develop new features for competitive reasons (“we need to add feature X because competitor Y has it and our users are asking for it”). Or upper management might say “We are adding a new cloud service and we need all of you product teams to add support by June.” All of these just add to the things a feature request must compete with for development time.

 

That is a huge part of the real answer you want. Your idea is a good idea. In fact it’s a great idea that Adobe has partially implemented in some apps (by providing shortcut customization). But, the question each of the separate product teams ask themselves is, in the next few months, how should your request be ranked relative to (within the context of) the hundreds (maybe even thousands) of other potential items they can or need to complete? 

 

And the answer is, although your idea is legit and important and probably should be addressed in some form, very very often it is determined that there are quite a few items that are ranked higher in priority.

 

The release notes and the Ideas section do show that every year, many of the publicly documented user requests get implemented, and reported bugs do get fixed. So it isn’t like they aren’t listening or can’t do it. It is often largely a matter of what else is going on that they decide they need to do first.

 

And let me tell you, you are doing the right thing by calling attention to it; this is one of those “squeaky wheel” situations. But one voice is usually not enough. A software company is more likely do act if lots of people are bugging them about the same thing. Which is part of the reason the Ideas section lets you upvote the publicly submitted user ideas, to let user votes help set the priority. So maybe your next step is to figure out how to elevate the priority of this request against the requests and bugs it is competing with constantly, like could you get 200 votes for it in the Ideas section? That would put it on the front page when sorted by votes.

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LEGEND ,
Apr 10, 2024 Apr 10, 2024

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I personally DO NOT WANT Adobe to waste valuable developer resources on making each app work the same. There are plenty of bigger priorities.

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LEGEND ,
Apr 10, 2024 Apr 10, 2024

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I recommend (pretty please) that this discussion be moved to Ideas.

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LEGEND ,
Apr 10, 2024 Apr 10, 2024

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Can someone explain why Adobe is not capable to implement controls uniformity across LRC, CR and PS?


By @Maruhana

 

They are not incapable of doing this. I'm sure their programmers could do this. It is a choice made by Adobe not to do this.

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LEGEND ,
Apr 10, 2024 Apr 10, 2024

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You must be new here. Everytime that Adobe tries to change shortcut keys, there is a huge amount of screaming.

I personally have been using Photoshop since version 2.5 and yes its changed, you just have to keep up.

Oh and as for the comment about nobody being a photographer, I'm a working pro who started in photography 41 years ago. FWIW.

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