export assistance

[BabsMack]

Hello, I am new to LRc and have an issue with which I would appreciate some assistance. I am using LRc on a Macbook Air.

In order to learn about file management in LRc I created a 'test' folder with one imported raw image. I developed the image and exported a jpg back into the 'test' folder. When I view the 'test' folder it only has the jpg in it. The raw image is, of course, still in its folder in finder.  

Is there a way to retain both images so that I can view and access them in the folder in LRc?

Thank you

[dj_paige]

When I view the 'test' folder it only has the jpg in it.

View in LrC, or view in Mac Finder?

[BabsMack]

view in LrC, in Mac finder the raw and jpg are both in the source folder

[dj_paige]

My first thought about this is that you have (accidentally?) stacked the two photos. Select the JPG in LrC and press S to unstack them. If that turns out to be the solution, then we have to figure out how the stacking happened so it won't happen in the future.

By the way, most people do not create JPGs of their RAWs as a regular part of the workflow. For most people, JPG exports are created when you need to do something with the edited photo outside of LrC, such as e-mail, printing or upload; and when you export JPGs they should be considered temporary, and can be deleted when you are done with them. In most cases, there is no reason to include these exports in the catalog.

[BabsMack]

It doesn't seem like there are 2 stacked photos - no number in upper right hand corner of image and pressing S has no effect.

Thank you for the info about file handling. I am struggling a bit at the moment coming up with a system that works for me. It would be easier, I dare say if I didn't already have so many images lol. 

[dj_paige]

Just to be 100% sure ... the stacking indicator is in the upper LEFT hand corner; and the instructions I gave said to select the photo by clicking on it first before pressing S, did you click on the photo to select it first?

[richardplondon]

If this is a stacking issue, in order to show indicators in the Filmstrip (bottom of screen) the display of "Badges" needs to be turned on Settings - also, the Filmstrip needs to be sufficiently tall (its top boundary can be dragged up and down) that its thumbnails will show sufficiently large, to show these Badges. When Filmstrip thumbnails are very small, badges are automatically hidden regardless. 

Stacking can also be seen in Grid view, where a vertical double line / open-close handle shows on the slide surrounds at the start and end of each stack sequence. These show on left and right of the same image when a stack is collapsed. The active image always shows with the normal brighter tone surround. All images that are part of an expanded stack (unless the active image) show with a darker than normal tone surround.

Another reason why your Raw may not be showing in the folder, may be if you have filtered your view of the folder (inside LrC) in some other way that hides the Raw, for example, if it is showing only JPG images.

Otherwise, you may have duplicated this Raw into the folder concerned, while the working image inside the Catalog continues to refer to an original Raw elsewhere. In that case this particular Raw file that's sitting alongside the JPG (as seen in Finder), may in fact not be imported to the Catalog - and LrC should then be expected not to show its presence.

[BabsMack]

Thanks for all of this information,

I realized that after developing an image the library will just show that raw file with the adjustments. I exported the jpg to the same folder that the raw image was in. When I look at that folder with Mac finder both the raw and jpg are there. In LrC when I switch to the import window and select the folder in question I see both the raw file and the jpg. The jpg is not evident in the LrC library because it has not been imported.

I worked through the rest of your list in LrC to make sure that I understood your suggestions.

Thank you

[richardplondon]

In my opinion the JPG has no need to be evident from within the LrC library. to serve its purpose - since that is some intended external usage. The particular usage will dictate the particular settings with which you export. If you have no external usage in mind, there's no reason to export at all. The Catalog is your front-end for viewing the image library. amd all the organisation and editing work within. 

IOW: whenever one does export, this is ephemeral: external file copies are disposable once their external usage requirement has passed.

[BabsMack]

Thank you for your thoughts. It is very helpful as I negotiate this steep part of the LrC learning curve! Yes, I can see the sense in not keeping copies of exported images in the Catalog and not necesarily in another location.

[kglad]

in the future, to find the best place to post your message, use the list here, https://community.adobe.com/

p.s. i don't think the adobe website, and forums in particular, are easy to navigate, so don't spend a lot of time searching that forum list. do your best and we'll move the post if it helps you get responses.

<"moved from using the community">

[BabsMack]

thank you! will do!

[richardplondon · Accepted solution]

Your raw image has received adjustments (even if you do nothing to it, at the very least it has been given some default raw conversion settings) and so it has passed through one or more 'states' each with a different appearance. Any of these image states can be viewed by clicking in the History panel. If at any point along the way you have exported, then you will see a corresponding step in the History (of what has happened with this imported raw file) recording that too, labelled with a date.

Any of these image states can optionally be pulled out and shown as a separate thumbnail by creating a 'Virtual Copy' either at the time, or subsequently. That one Raw that you already have got imported, underlies all this so that is all you need. And if you ever wanted to re-export the image (say, showing exactly the same appearance as previously) but now for a different purpose - that image state of the Raw is functionally better to use, than would be the previously exported JPG. For example: perhaps you previously exported that JPG at low resolution, and now you want a high resolution version for printing. THat extra resolution can come from the Raw, but cannot come from the previous JPG. Or of you wanted to make further tonal adjustment or whatever, again the Raw is a technically better basis for such adjustment than the JPG would be.

All that said, and I don't recommend this since IMO it clutters up the Catalog and creates an entirely needless complication of needing to  distinguish one kind of image thumbnail from the other kind - as part of exporting an image, you can click a checkbox "Add to this Catalog". Then LrC not only creates a new JPG file out on disk, but also automatically imports that JPG back in, as part of the same task..

[BabsMack]

Thank you for your thoughtful repy.

I made note of the history panel and see that the raw file is still there. If I wanted to develop the raw file in a different way, say black and white, or alter the resolution as in your example is there a way to do this without overwriting the current list of adjustments (history)?

[richardplondon · Accepted solution]

Yes, you can develop the raw file into as many different treatment versions as you like, by making virtual copies.

Altering resolution is something that only applies to a copy image that is exported. So long as you have access to a given image state you can continue to output from it in whatever varying ways you want. The choices made at output only affect the output. All editing done inside the Catalog happens nondestructively at the original resolution of the imported source file, and always referring without any cumulative change or degradation, back to the original picture / Raw content of that. 

A virtual copy behaves as an independent image version so far as belonging to collections, having metadata such as keywords and colour flags, and so far as Develop adjustments. The only link it has to the master copy it was made from, is that any fact about, or anything done to or involving the imported file which underlies both, has necessarily to apply to both. So if you drag that master copy into a different folder (inside the Catalog), or rename it, that file will physically move or be renamed. Therefore this virtual copy will also report as being within that new folder location, or will reflect that changed filename. But otherwise, they behave inside the Catalog like two effectively different photos. From outside the Catalog nothing can be seen of a virtual copy, But if you export or print from it etc, the result is just as real as if it had been made from the master copy. 

To underline this equivalence: you can even switch two image versions that both refer to the same file, as to which one of them is the master copy. 

One thing to watch out for when using History: if you go back to an earlier state than your latest edits, and if you then make any sort of a new adjustment, the History of this image takes a fresh path that will not include those same subsequent edits. So if you roll back to an earlier state that you want to use as the basis for some other treatment - make a virtual copy but then in the main starting image, remember to roll back forward to see your latest edits again, That way you won't lose them. 

[BabsMack]

Thank you for your reply and detailed explanation.

I see how the virtual copy works and how to preserve the history for the initial image adjustments.