LR3 Slow Rendering

[Si_Guy_aka_Rayeza]

Just thought id post this up.. see if anyone else is having probs.. everytime i make an image adj, esp in the basic tab the image only fully renders if i zoom into it.. this is getting on my nerves now.. and also they seem to have removed the really close magnification on the zoom.. another feature missed for me.

PLSPLSPLS Adobe...

Continual rendering or atleast the option..

And the super zoom back.

Aaaaathankingyou.

[Si_Guy_aka_Rayeza]

yea my brush tool lags for about 3 seconds while im screwing my face up looking for the adjustment.. then oh shit, its renders the adj and ive done too much.

[Creative_Efex]

Along the same lines ...

I'm having issues with the preview window not updating in the develop module but showing correctly in the library module.  For instance I applied the noise removal in develop mode and the navigator was showing correctly but the preview window wasn't .. I was getting frustrated so I went over to the library module to check something and lo and behold it was previewing correctly in Library mode so I clicked back into the Develop module and it was incorrect still.  Flicking back & forth between the two modules shows the two different results with the library being the only correct one.  I'm noticing this with sharpening also.

[Jao vdL]

I'm having issues with the preview window not updating in the develop module but showing correctly in the library module.

...noise removal...I'm noticing this with sharpening also.

This is normal. The Develop module while zoomed out does not apply the noise removal and the sharpening. It will only apply it while zoomed in 1:1. The reason for this is that it would be far too slow to actually calculate this. When you go to Library, a new preview jpeg is rendered that does include all the develop settings and then the image is shown from this preview jpeg, instead of from the raw data (or whatever kind of file is your original). Do realize that the only place where you can judge noise reduction and capture sharpening correctly is in the 1:1 zoomed view. In zoomed out views, you are more looking at the scaling algorithm than the sharpening so this is not a loss as you should NOT be using the capture sharpening to make an image appear sharp at a heavily scaled down level. That's what output sharpening is for. In LR3, Lightroom does now try to show the effect of output sharpening (which is a very different thing than the capture sharpening in the Develop module) in the zoomed out preview, but it is a little buggy and doesn't always happen.

[Creative_Efex]

Well that makes sense .. thanks for clarifying that.  Still a little annoying to have to click away to see the overall result but I understand why.

Thanks again

[CSS_Simon]

Jao vdL wrote:

I'm having issues with the preview window not updating in the develop module but showing correctly in the library module.

...noise removal...I'm noticing this with sharpening also.

This is normal. The Develop module while zoomed out does not apply the noise removal and the sharpening. It will only apply it while zoomed in 1:1. The reason for this is that it would be far too slow to actually calculate this. When you go to Library, a new preview jpeg is rendered that does include all the develop settings and then the image is shown from this preview jpeg, instead of from the raw data (or whatever kind of file is your original). Do realize that the only place where you can judge noise reduction and capture sharpening correctly is in the 1:1 zoomed view. In zoomed out views, you are more looking at the scaling algorithm than the sharpening so this is not a loss as you should NOT be using the capture sharpening to make an image appear sharp at a heavily scaled down level. That's what output sharpening is for. In LR3, Lightroom does now try to show the effect of output sharpening (which is a very different thing than the capture sharpening in the Develop module) in the zoomed out preview, but it is a little buggy and doesn't always happen.

Makes sense but it's definitely not intuitive, as it can affect the displayed image even when there's no noise removal and sharpening applied except the default values.  For instance, I've just applied quite a steep tone curve to a low-contrast image, and in develop view suddenly considerable noise appears that's not seen in library view.

I think perhaps there should be an exclamation mark or something else to remind people whenever a fully-rendered image is not being displayed.

[JayS_In_CT]

Si Guy aka Rayeza wrote:

Just thought id post this up.. see if anyone else is having probs.. everytime i make an image adj, esp in the basic tab the image only fully renders if i zoom into it.. this is getting on my nerves now.. and also they seem to have removed the really close magnification on the zoom.. another feature missed for me.

PLSPLSPLS Adobe...

Continual rendering or atleast the option..

And the super zoom back.

Aaaaathankingyou.

Had this issue as well and know exactly what you're talking about.  I got it to go away (hopefully for good) by deleting the previews folder and letting LR 3 build a new set.  I also purged the ACRLR Cache.  Nothing in the Preview folder should be impacting, but I did it anyway.  I think someone mentioned using the Beta.  I'm wondering if this has something to do picking the beta version of the catalog.  Don't know but did it for me.  Macbook Pro, 10.6.3.

Jay S.

SCRATCH the above..  Just loaded a new set of images and the problem is now back on all.  I can get a "clear" image back simply by going from "Fit" to "Fill"..    On a 1920x1200 Dell 24" Ultrasharp.  Never an issue in 2.7.  The issue also seems to not occur if I resize the entire LR window down about 3/4" as someone mentioned, or if I edit in "Fill" mode.  I prefer not to give back that real estate if I don't have to.  Same exact symptoms as shown in the image above.

Message was edited by: JayS In CT    Sorry.. thought I had found something to correct this.

[Creative_Efex]

Ok just doing some editing and encountered something I forgot to mention before.

If I use a preset that has NR factored into the preset it shows the results in Develop Fit/Fill fine.  However if I manually apply NR it won't show up unless I zoom 1:1 or view in Library.

[JayS_In_CT]

Si Guy aka Rayeza wrote:

Just thought id post this up.. see if anyone else is having probs.. everytime i make an image adj, esp in the basic tab the image only fully renders if i zoom into it.. this is getting on my nerves now.. and also they seem to have removed the really close magnification on the zoom.. another feature missed for me.

PLSPLSPLS Adobe...

Continual rendering or atleast the option..

And the super zoom back.

Aaaaathankingyou.

I think this thread has morphed into describing two different issues.  I believe the OP post describes the issue where after making an adjustment, the resulting image in the Develop window isn't fully rendered.  You need to take some other action, zoom in/out, swtich between fill/fit, etc. to get it to come back (as illustrated by the collage of 3 images that was posted by Jao).  Secondly, there seems to be an issue around NR and Sharpening not showing up.  Perhaps we should split off the latter into a new thread.  I think the initial issue is more related to the similar issues folks have with 1920x1200 (or other high res.) type monitors.

Jay S.

[Selby Shanly]

The problem of incomplete/soft/fuzzy rendering in Develop after changing a slider is still in 3.3RC.  I have a 1920x1200 monitor and did some testing last night.

To keep it simple, I just changed the Brightness slider and did all tests with one image only in "Fit" mode.  With Brightness the effect of the slider is obvious which allows the user to observe the change caused by the slider separate from whether or not the detail has been re-rendered.

Sometimes it worked - the brightness of the image changed and then the detail was resolved.  Other times, the brightness of the image still changed, but the detail became soft and stayed soft.  I tried walking away and came back over a minute later - still soft.  Zooming to 1:1 fixes the problem within seconds (even on my elderly machine).  After zooming 1:1 and back to Fit it then seems to work for the next 2 or 3 adjustments, but then breaks again.  I couldn't find a real pattern but it did keep happening - no doubt about it.

Adobe acknowledged that this was a problem in 3.0, but it was reproduced by them too late to make 3.2.  So it is an acknowledged bug.  There is no mention of a fix in the release notes for 3.3RC, so perhaps we're supposed to infer that it still hasn't been fixed.

For those who encounter it, this bug makes working in Develop very difficult.  Given that and the current confusion in the user community over whether or not it has been fixed, it would be most helpful if Adobe would simply say whether or not they believe that the problem has been fixed in 3.3RC.

Selby

[JayS_In_CT]

Selby Shanly wrote:

The problem of incomplete/soft/fuzzy rendering in Develop after changing a slider is still in 3.3RC.  I have a 1920x1200 monitor and did some testing last night.

To keep it simple, I just changed the Brightness slider and did all tests with one image only in "Fit" mode.  With Brightness the effect of the slider is obvious which allows the user to observe the change caused by the slider separate from whether or not the detail has been re-rendered.

Sometimes it worked - the brightness of the image changed and then the detail was resolved.  Other times, the brightness of the image still changed, but the detail became soft and stayed soft.  I tried walking away and came back over a minute later - still soft.  Zooming to 1:1 fixes the problem within seconds (even on my elderly machine).  After zooming 1:1 and back to Fit it then seems to work for the next 2 or 3 adjustments, but then breaks again.  I couldn't find a real pattern but it did keep happening - no doubt about it.

Adobe acknowledged that this was a problem in 3.0, but it was reproduced by them too late to make 3.2.  So it is an acknowledged bug.  There is no mention of a fix in the release notes for 3.3RC, so perhaps we're supposed to infer that it still hasn't been fixed.

For those who encounter it, this bug makes working in Develop very difficult.  Given that and the current confusion in the user community over whether or not it has been fixed, it would be most helpful if Adobe would simply say whether or not they believe that the problem has been fixed in 3.3RC.

Selby

Selby,

According to Dan Tull the fix was included, but just didn't make the list.  I've tried it pretty extensively on my 24" Dell Ultrasharp which is also running at 1920x1200 hooked up to a Macbook Pro.  I've not been able to recreate the "stuck unresolved" while in fit mode with various sizes of the develop window.  I'd be glad to try to recreate if you can give me some sizings, etc. to try and recreate here, e.g. how wide are side panels, are top and bottom on or off, etc.

Jay S.

[Jao vdL]

The Develop rendering bug was fixed for me in 3.3 RC. I tested it on a 30"

2560x1600 screen. The image does not stay fuzzy after moving a slider and

releasing it as it did in 3.2.

[dorin_nicolaescu]

On my 3.3 RC it is solved. Sort of...

1. Develop 1:2 zoom mode.
2. Click drag and release the Brightness slider - image stays soft.
3. Move the mouse off the Brighness slider - image immediately gets sharp. LR 3.2 would still be blurry at this point.

If this is supposed to be the fix - it's fixed.

Jao, can you please confirm the same behaviour on your system in 1:2 mode? Do you have to move the mouse off the slider or does it get sharp as soon as you release the button?

[JayS_In_CT]

dorin_nicolaescu wrote:

On my 3.3 RC it is solved. Sort of...

1. Develop 1:2 zoom mode.
2. Click drag and release the Brightness slider - image stays soft.
3. Move the mouse off the Brighness slider - image immediately gets sharp. LR 3.2 would still be blurry at this point.

If this is supposed to be the fix - it's fixed.

Jao, can you please confirm the same behaviour on your system in 1:2 mode? Do you have to move the mouse off the slider or does it get sharp as soon as you release the button?

Dorin,

In you steps above, I don't have to move off the brightness slider.  As soon as I release the slider the image snaps into focus.  Is there any change for you relative to the size of the Develop window itself, meaning will it work without having to shrink that window down to the same extent as before?

Jay S.

[dorin_nicolaescu]

In you steps above, I don't have to move off the brightness slider.  As soon as I release the slider the image snaps into focus.

Ok, then the bug is not correctd for me on XP in 3.3RC.

Is there any change for you relative to the size of the Develop window itself, meaning will it work without having to shrink that window down to the same extent as before?

No matter what the windows size is, I have to move mouse off the slider for the image to get sharp when I am at 1:2 zoom. For other zoom levels, the image gets sharp as soon as I release the mouse button.

[Selby Shanly]

While it seems to be working for me in general, last night I zoomed to 1:1 and the image stayed fuzzy - it would not render.  I'm running XP, so after a good long wait I brought up the Task Manager - Lightroom was using 0% CPU - so it wasn't even trying to render it.

I shut down Lightroom and brought it up again and it then worked and continued to work.  So obviously there are still problems in this area.

Selby

[JayS_In_CT]

dorin_nicolaescu wrote:

In you steps above, I don't have to move off the brightness slider.  As soon as I release the slider the image snaps into focus.

Ok, then the bug is not correctd for me on XP in 3.3RC.

Is there any change for you relative to the size of the Develop window itself, meaning will it work without having to shrink that window down to the same extent as before?

No matter what the windows size is, I have to move mouse off the slider for the image to get sharp when I am at 1:2 zoom. For other zoom levels, the image gets sharp as soon as I release the mouse button.

Dorin,

O.K., so that's just plain strange.  All other zooms work (does fit work?) but not 1:2..  Really strange.  What resolution, monitor type?

Jay S.

[dorin_nicolaescu]

What resolution, monitor type?

LCD - 1280x1024. Old video card (ATI Radeon  X500). Win XP.

[dorin_nicolaescu]

LCD - 1280x1024. Old video card (ATI Radeon  X500). Win XP.

Just installed 3.3 RC onto Win 7 x64, 20" mionitor (1680x1050), ATI Radeon HD4350.

Exactly the same behaviour — at 1:2 the rendering is stuck until i move the mouse off the slider. Very strange.

[JayS_In_CT]

dorin_nicolaescu wrote:

LCD - 1280x1024. Old video card (ATI Radeon  X500). Win XP.

Just installed 3.3 RC onto Win 7 x64, 20" mionitor (1680x1050), ATI Radeon HD4350.

Exactly the same behaviour — at 1:2 the rendering is stuck until i move the mouse off the slider. Very strange.

Dorin,

So two different machines and different monitors with the same result at 1:2?  Are you sharing the LR files?  If so, maybe there is something in prefs or previews getting stuck perhaps?  If a totally new clean installation, I've no clue what else to offer.

Jay S.

[Jao vdL]

It immediately snaps into focus when I release the slider. I don't have to

move it off.

Sorry for the late reply. I was out of reach of modern (any really)

communication technology for the last week.

2010/11/2 Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață <forums@adobe.com>

On my 3.3 RC it is solved. Sort of...

>

1. Develop 1:2 zoom mode.

2. Click drag and release the Brightness slider - image stays soft.

3. Move the mouse off the Brighness slider - image immediately gets sharp.

LR 3.2 would still be blurry at this point.

>

If this is supposed to be the fix - it's fixed.

>

Jao, can you please confirm the same behaviour on your system in 1:2 mode?

Do you have to move the mouse off the slider or does it get sharp as soon as

you release the button?

>

[Selby Shanly]

Jay - I'll have to double check when I'm home, but if my memory is correct the setup should be as follows:  No top or bottom panels, not in full screen, no left panel, right panel at max width (that's the one I need to check).  LR window is maximized.  Lens corrections are on in Custom, but the sliders are left at their default values.

BTW I'm running on Windows XP and I have the latest WHQL nVidia drivers released on Oct 18.

I just picked an image and only adjusted the Brightness and checked each time.  After 2 or 3 times, the image would stay soft until I zoomed in to 1:1 (although the brightness adjustment was made).

Let me know - thanks.

Also - where did Dan state that this had been fixed?

Thanks,

Selby

[JayS_In_CT]

Selby Shanly wrote:

Jay - I'll have to double check when I'm home, but if my memory is correct the setup should be as follows:  No top or bottom panels, not in full screen, no left panel, right panel at max width (that's the one I need to check).  LR window is maximized.  Lens corrections are on in Custom, but the sliders are left at their default values.

BTW I'm running on Windows XP and I have the latest WHQL nVidia drivers released on Oct 18.

I just picked an image and only adjusted the Brightness and checked each time.  After 2 or 3 times, the image would stay soft until I zoomed in to 1:1 (although the brightness adjustment was made).

Let me know - thanks.

Also - where did Dan state that this had been fixed?

Thanks,

Selby

I'll try that configuration this afternoon.  As for discussion with Dan, just as a part of the follow up since I had created and reported this officially through the bug report.  Given the earlier conversations (and even pointed out in this thread) Adobe was able to recreate this in the labs.  When I didn't see it in the official write-up for 3.3 RC, I just reached out to him.

Jay S.

[JayS_In_CT]

Selby Shanly wrote:

Jay - I'll have to double check when I'm home, but if my memory is correct the setup should be as follows:  No top or bottom panels, not in full screen, no left panel, right panel at max width (that's the one I need to check).  LR window is maximized.  Lens corrections are on in Custom, but the sliders are left at their default values.

BTW I'm running on Windows XP and I have the latest WHQL nVidia drivers released on Oct 18.

I just picked an image and only adjusted the Brightness and checked each time.  After 2 or 3 times, the image would stay soft until I zoomed in to 1:1 (although the brightness adjustment was made).

Let me know - thanks.

Also - where did Dan state that this had been fixed?

Thanks,

Selby

Selby,

I tried these configs and more and still cannot get the resolution to hang up the way it was.  Again I'm on a Mac, do do't know if there is a difference.  Just for a trial, have you loaded a prior level of the nVidia drivers?

Jay S.

[Selby Shanly]

It happened with a prior level of the drivers as well.

So, maybe it's a Windows XP thing.  I'll have to contact Adobe because it is definitely happening on my machine.

Thanks for taking the time to try it.

Selby

[Selby Shanly]

Jay - one more question - what are your preview settings?  (Don't know whether this matters or not, but....)

Thanks,

Selby