• Global community
    • Language:
      • Deutsch
      • English
      • Español
      • Français
      • Português
  • 日本語コミュニティ
    Dedicated community for Japanese speakers
  • 한국 커뮤니티
    Dedicated community for Korean speakers
Exit
0

LrC does not sort video files according to capture date and time

Engaged ,
Jun 20, 2024 Jun 20, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I have both RAW and Video files in my LrC catalog.  The RAW files sort as expected when selecting "Sort: Capture Time".   But with Video files they do not sort according to the "Capture Time" metadata but according to the "Date Time" metadata.  For my RAW files all the date time metadata fields (there are several) contain the same data, which is the capture date and time.  But video metadata is a mess!  I won't delve into all the problems with date and time metadata in video files, but "Capture Time" metadata and "Data Time" metadata are not the same.  Consequently sorting on "Date Time" metadata does not sort according to "Capture Time". 

 

The bug is that when sort according to "Capture Time" is selected, the resultant order is according the "Data Time" metadata which is the wrong order.

 

TOPICS
Windows

Views

334

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Community Expert ,
Jun 21, 2024 Jun 21, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

There are lots of known problems with video capture dates, due to poor video standards.

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jun 28, 2024 Jun 28, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I agree that video metatdata is a mess.  In this case the problem is with LrC.  When it sorts by "Capture Time" it uses the wrong metadata.  This is not a problem with video standards (which are plentiful), it's a problem with LrC.  It's a "bug" that needs to be fixed. 

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jun 21, 2024 Jun 21, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Building on Johan's comment, a couple of the common issues with video capture time:

 

- Videos from many cameras will have their capture dates shifted by the time zone offset from UTC where the photo was taken:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-handle-video-capture-times-for-cameras-obey...

 

- The Mac Photos app substitutes the time of export for capture time when it exports videos (unless you use Export Unmodified). Other video apps simply discard video metadata.

 

- When LR doesn't recognize any capture-date field in the metadata, it will use the file's last-modified date. Worse, each time that last-modified date changes, LR changes the capture date in the catalog! And LR will sort the videos inconsistently with the times shown under the thumbnails and in the Metadata panel. (The EXIF DateTime field is often but not always the same as the file's last-modified date.)

 

In general, you often have to use the menu command Metadata > Edit Capture Time to correct the capture date of videos. Once you do that, LR will behave consistently.

 

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jun 28, 2024 Jun 28, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I always us Metadata > Edit Capture Time to correct the video metadata from Zulu to the correct time zone.  In that case it is easy to correct lots of files quickly.  In this case the Date Time metadata has been changed by another program that stabilized the video.  The Capture Time metatdata is still correct.  In order to correct this error I would need to individually correct about 420 files one-by-one, unless there is a way to either get LrC to use the correct metadata when sorting by Capture Time (i.e. the Capture Time metadata) or some way to set the Date Time metadata to agree with Capture Time.  Is there a way to do that?  Maybe someone who is good a writting LrC plugins could do something.

 

Regardless, LrC is using the wrong metatdata.  That's a bug.  It needs to be fixed.

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jun 28, 2024 Jun 28, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Please attach one of the videos that isn't sorting correctly here. If you don't have a problem video smaller than 47 MB, then upload it to Dropbox, Google Drive, or similar and post the sharing link here. That will let us determine authoritatively where the problem occurs and provide an actionable bug report for Adobe. Without a sample file with which they can reproduce the problem, they're very unlikely to pay attention.

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 02, 2024 Jul 02, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I did more testing and what I find is that the sorting is by capture date/time unless there are some stacked files.  I have not been able to figure out what metadata is used for stacked video files.  I expected that stacks should be sorted by the capture date/time of the file that is on the top of the stack.  I find that is sometimes the case but sometimes not the case.  Sometimes they stack according to other data/time metadata.  When I checked sorting before, the sequences I checked all sorted by date/time not capture data/time.  I spent quite a bit more time experimenting but now I cannot find a consistent pattern.  I am looking at all the date/time metadata that LrC will present and cannot find anything that works for all the stacks. 

 

At this point I have decided that using LrC to manage video files is more trouble than it's worth.   My problem is that I have not found a better alternative.  Out of necessity I am using Sony Catalyst Prepare, but it's got big problems too.  At least it will play all the video files regardless of the codex and shows all the metadata.

 

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jul 02, 2024 Jul 02, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I've diagnosed many, many problems with metadata and video metadata in particular -- I know more about how LR handles metadata than the Adobe engineers. If you share one or more of the problem videos here as described above, I can most likely diagnose the issue and slot it into an existing bug report or file a new one.

 

 

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 02, 2024 Jul 02, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

email with link sent.

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jul 03, 2024 Jul 03, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

[This post contains formatting and embedded images that don't appear in email. View the post in your Web browser.]

 

While LR does have significant issues with video capture time, the problem with the 12 files you sent is  caused by a bug in the Sony Catalyst software you used to stabilize the videos.  Catalyst is overwriting the industry-standard field that stores the capture date/time (QuickTime:CreateDate), probably with the date/time that the file was created by Catalyst. LR is correctly reading that field and using it for its notion of capture time.

 

Here's what it looks like after importing the 12 files, stacking them into pairs with the "stabilized.mp4" files on top, and sorting by capture time:

johnrellis_1-1720050510185.png

 

This table (generated by the Any Filter plugin) shows that the Capture Time used by LR matches the industry-standard metadata field QuickTime:CreateDate, which stores the camera capture time in the file (extracted with the Exiftool utility):

johnrellis_2-1720050844318.png

The "stabilized" versions have capture times much later than the original versions. So when you sort in Library Grid view by Capture Time, it's sorting by the capture times of the stack tops (the "stabilized" versions).

 

To work around this catalyst bug, you could change the capture times of the "stabilized" versions using the Metadata > Capture Time command, one at a time.  Or if you're experienced using command line scripting, you could use the Exiftool utility to copy QuickTime:CreateDate from the "Unknown.mp4" files to the corresponding "Unknown-stabilized.mp4" files.

 

Unfortunately, you'd have to remove the modified "stabilized" files from the LR catalog, run Exiftool, and reimport the files, which is the only way to force LR to reread the capture date of videos.

 

(There are lots of examples in the Exiftool documentation,  but Exiftool isn't for the faint of heart, and it would probably take me at least 30 - 40 minutes to get the correct command line.)

 

A couple more tips:

 

- To diagnose capture time and sorting issues, it helps to display the capture time under the thumbnails in Library Grid view, as in the screenshot above (do View > View Options to change the displayed fields.

 

- For many cameras, LR will display the capture time in UTC rather than the local time zone. You can select all the videos and do Metadata > Edit Capture Time to shift the capture times of all the videos by a set number of hours (This issue with the time zones is caused by a poorly written industry specification, which LR could do a better but not perfect job of working around.)

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 03, 2024 Jul 03, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thanks for examining the metadata in the files. 

I am aware that the root of the problem is that Sony Catalyst is changing some of the metadata.  I have sent a report to Sony asking why they do that and that they corrrect it.  I have no reply and don't expect I will ever get a reply.  Nor do I expect they will change anything.

Examining the metadata list you provide I am surprised to see that it does not agree with the metatdata I am seeing for the same files.  First, as I mentioned above the capture date/time the Sony A1 puts in the video metadata is UTC not local time.  As a result I always make a -7 hr correction using LrC.  All the files sent to you had that correction.  I see that you are showing capture date/time without the correction.  Maybe LrC did not adjust the metadata in the file but only in the LrC catalog.

Second the Capture Date/Time of the stabilized files you are extracting seem to be different from the Capture Date/Time I am seeing in LrC.  I set up the metadata panel in LrC by editing the list of data presented to show any field that has date or time.  I do not see any field about quicktime.   I have attached the data in the 12 screen captures below.  The difference between what you extracted and what I am able to see in the LrC panel explains why I could not find any metadata that agreed with the sort order and you do.  Why the metadata you see and and what I see differ is not known to me. 

I am providing the data below not because I expect you to analyze it and reply to me.  It us not my intention to make work for you.  I am providing it only because you seem to have an interest in how video metadata is managed and are doing a lot to inform Adobe of improvements they can make. 

Regardless this reinforces my conclusion that using LrC to manage my video files in not viable.  At this time I am using a combination of Catalyst Prepare and Davinci Resolve.

 

DClark064_0-1720068445132.png

 

DClark064_1-1720068496887.png

 

DClark064_2-1720068545734.png

 

DClark064_3-1720068577734.png

 

DClark064_4-1720068618085.png

 

DClark064_5-1720068636900.png

 

DClark064_6-1720068664486.png

 

 

DClark064_1-1720130049791.png

 

 

DClark064_10-1720068860949.png

 

DClark064_11-1720068907972.png

 

DClark064_0-1720129983171.png

 

 

DClark064_8-1720068776868.png

 

DClark064_9-1720068814914.png

Edited to replace the duplicate 0780 stabilized with 0780 unstablized, and to add 1008 unstablized.  There are correctly two versions of the 1008 stabilized that used different stabilization parameters.

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Community Expert ,
Jul 04, 2024 Jul 04, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I see the same problem when I edit videos in Premiere Pro. The edited video is a new file, and Lightroom reads the file creation date of that new file as capture date/time of the video (it's amazing that even Adobe can't do this right). My work around is as follows. I import the unedited videos in Lightroom, and adjust their capture date if needed, just to have them there already. Then I edit the videos in Premiere Pro, give them the exact same file name as the unedited ones have, and replace the unedited videos (on disk) by the edited ones. Lightroom will have no problem with that, and as it continues to use the capture date that it initially read, the edited videos will show the correct capture date in Lightroom.

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jul 04, 2024 Jul 04, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

@JohanElzenga: "The edited video is a new file, and Lightroom reads the file creation date of that new file as capture date/time of the video"

 

That's different behavior than what @DClark064 observes, in which Sony Catalyst records a (new) value for QuickTime:CreateDate.

 

When a photo or video is missing any of the standard fields (including EXIF:DateTimeOriginal or QuickTime:CreateDate), LR uses the file's date-modified maintained by the operating systems and camera firmware for it's notion of Capture Date/Time. That's reasonable, since cameras generally set it to when the shutter was pressed and it usually is preserved through the import process. 

 

But then LR has some bizarre behavior: If the file's date-modified changes for some reason, LR will immediately change the Capture Date/Time to the new value! So if you do Metadata > Save Metadata To File for a photo missing EXIF:DateTimeOriginal, LR's Capture Date/Time will change soon enough in the Metadata panel, and the photo will now appear in a different position in the Capture Time sort order.

 

This bug was introduced the last time Adobe tried half-heartedly to fix the slew of bugs around photos that don't have capture date stored in their metadata. It was pretty clear that no one on the team understood what they were doing at that point.


The workaround is easy: Immediately after import, select all the imported photos and do Metadata > Edit Capture Time and then click Change All without changing any options in the dialog. 

 

I care about accurate metadata for maintaining archival catalogs, but I can't believe my head is filled with this crap.

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jul 04, 2024 Jul 04, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

"the capture date/time the Sony A1 puts in the video metadata is UTC not local time.  As a result I always make a -7 hr correction using LrC.  All the files sent to you had that correction.  I see that you are showing capture date/time without the correction.  Maybe LrC did not adjust the metadata in the file but only in the LrC catalog."

 

That's right. Adobe never implemented Metadata > Save Metadata To File for video, despite it being a popular feature request:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-read-and-write-video-metadata-into-video-or...

 

 

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jul 04, 2024 Jul 04, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

"I do not see any field about quicktime."'

 

Right, LR doesn't show any of the QuickTime video metadata fields in the Metadata panel.  

 

In general, all of the date/time fields in the Metadata panel have reasonably precise meanings for photos.  (Those meanings sometimes have obscure meanings assigned by the standards and don't mean what LR's labels sometimes seem to imply.)  But when Adobe implemented video in LR 3 and 4, they did a rush job, and they crammed video metadata into the existing photo framework without giving it much thought.  After LR 4, they've mostly stopped paying attention to video.

 

For video, the only relevant Metadata panel field is Capture Date/Time. It represents LR's notion of when the shutter was pressed. It's a separate field in the catalog with a complicated set of rules of how it gets set for photos and videos. For video, it gets set from the field EXIF:DateTimeOriginal if it's present in the video (some cameras do that), otherwise it gets set from QuickTime:CreateDate. 

 

When you use Metadata > Edit Capture Time, it changes the catalog field for Capture Date/Time (and it sets other catalog fields at are really for photos, e.g. EXIF Date Time Original and IPTC Date Created).  But as discussed, nothing ever gets written back to the video file or a .xmp sidecar.

 

 

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jul 04, 2024 Jul 04, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Looking at your screenshots, there are enough clues there to state authoritatively that they correspond with the metadata table I included above. Capture Date/Time was getting initially set by Import to QuickTime:CreateDate, and then for some of the files, you had applied the Edit Capture Time Command.   

 

(The Date Time Digitized field shows the original value of Capture Date/Time -- the Edit Capture Time doesn't change it.)

 

For the first three pairs:

 

240502_095949_0777

240502_100137_0778

240502_101828_0779

 

The Capture Date/Time for the "Unknown" files in the pairs were set by Import to QuickTime:CreateDate, and then you shifted them by -7:00 using Edit Capture Time. The Capture Date/Time fields for the "Stabilized" files made by Catalyst were originally what is stored in QuickTime:CreateDate, but then you used Edit Capture Time to set them to those of the "Unknown" versions. 

 

For the fourth pair:

 

240502_102603_0780

 

you included two screenshots of the "Stabilized" version.  The original Capture Date/Time was set from the QuickTime:CreateDate set by Catalyst, and then you used Edit Capture Time to change it.

 

For the fifth pair:

 

240530_112123_1008

 

you included two screenshots of the "Stabilized" version.  You didn't apply Edit Capture Time to the file, and Capture Date/Time was set to QuickTime:CreateDate.

 

For the sixth pair:

 

240530_112401_1009

 

you haven't applied Edit Capture Time to either file. Capture Date/Time was set to QuickTime:CreateDate.

 

 

 

 

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 04, 2024 Jul 04, 2024

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

LATEST

Thanks for taking another look at this data.

I corrected the screen shots in the post above.

You probably noticed that the first part of the file names consist of the date and time of the original capture.  The time is the time at the end of the clip whereas the other capture data and times are the time of the start of the clip.  Regardless that allows me to sort on the file name and get the right files together.  I use Downloader Pro from Breeze Systems when I move files from the memory card to a folder on the computer, and then import or sychronize that folder in LrC.  I would like to put the files into a stack but since the only automated stacking is by capture time it does not work.  I have to go through and manually stack them which is in the hundreds of operations.

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines