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M2 Max + LRC + external monitor + Develop module = FLICKER

Community Beginner ,
Feb 05, 2023 Feb 05, 2023

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Hi!
I took delivery the other day of a brand new Macbook Pro with M2 Max chip (38-core GPU) and experience so much flicker for LRC to be unusuable. This only occurs with my external monitor attached.

 

More details:
* This was a directly replacement of my M1 Max Macbook Pro (which had fewer GPU cores, less RAM);

* Fresh MacOS install (13.2);

* Same data/LR catalog (LRC 12.1);

* Apple Pro XDR display (latest firmware);

* Preferences > Performance > Camera Raw / Use Graphics Processor = Auto.

 

The flicker presents as if a new color profile is being applied on and off, every time I move the mouse in the Development module. It appears as if a new white balance is applied (the white balance doesn't actually change — it just has the same screen effect as if WB is changing). This makes the program unusuable for any editing. 

 

True Tone and Automatic brightness adjustments are both off, as is Night Shift.

 

If I turn this GPU usage to off within LRC, the flickering is gone — but the program slows SIGNIFICANTLY. If turn to this setting to "Custom", "GPU for Display is the most basic setting", and I have to shut it off for LRC to work properly.

 

Has anyone experienced this? Some web searches revealed M1 (and M2) users had flickering with BenQ monitors. I realize I'm one of the early ones with an M2 Max.

 

Any thoughts?

Booting into Safe Mode had no impact. Same external monitor, cables (Thunderbolt), data, etc., with my old M1 Max MBP and the new M2 Max MBP.

 

Thanks for any leads.

 

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 07, 2023 Feb 07, 2023

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I have a replacement in hand (base model M2 Max 14" — 12-core CPU, 30-core (not 38) GPU, less RAM) — and it does, in fact, exhibit the same behavior.

However, I have isolated things a bit further. The flickering only occurs in this scenario:
* Lightroom Classic Develop module;

* MacOS 13.x;

* External monitor connected;
* Brightness (using F1/F2 keys) at maximum or 1 step below max)!

Again, this issue did NOT occur with my M1 Max MBP 14"; however, I read that some people did/do experience flickering with their M1 Max, so I thought it might be a case of a bad GPU.

 

Odd it only appears in LRC & in the Dev module at that.

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Community Expert ,
Feb 07, 2023 Feb 07, 2023

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Screen flicker with external displays is a fairly common complaint for M1 based computers dating back to when they were first introduced. In fact, some display vendors have even published guidance of the how it may be fixed (e.g. BenQ document linked below).

 

I see it occassionally when I my BenQ SW271C On, but have never seen it when the NEC 30-inch SpectraView Refernce display is connected. Needless to say, I rarely use the BenQ, but that's more because macOS and 4K displays are not the best of friends when it comes to choosing a non integer resolution.

 

There's a lengthy thread on Macrumours discussing (complaining) about the issue https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-pro-m1-external-screen-flickering.2325279/

 

https://www.benq.com/en-us/knowledge-center/knowledge/how-to-fix-mac-m1-m2-external-monitor-flicker....

 

FWIW, in my case none of the suggestions by BenQ helped.

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 08, 2023 Feb 08, 2023

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Thank you for the reply!

 

Interestingly (or perhaps only interesting to me), my M1 Max exhibited no flickering at all. 

 

I was aware of the BenQ suggestions — none worked for me, either.

 

It's interesting that it is only happening at 15/16 or 16/16 brightness (macOS slider). If that continues to work, it's a usable workaround for me.

 

Does anyone know how to preserve the brightness setting on a Macbook Pro? Every time I open it up, it reverts to 50% brightness (no automatic settings are on). Would be great if I could have a stored setting for the built-in display and for the external (Pro XDR) monitor.

 

I don't think Apple considers this to be their problem because Adobe LRC is involved.

 

THANKS!

 

 

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Community Expert ,
Feb 08, 2023 Feb 08, 2023

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You can create display presets for the interrnal and external Mac displays. More details can be found in the following videos

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nxa8r9DIzg

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJuruNqxiP4

14" & 16" MacBook Pro Liquid Retina XDR Preset - Reference Modes Explained! This video will go over the various preset / references mode selection in the 14" & 16" MacBook Pro Liquid Retina XDR display, each of the modes limitation by design and how to get the get most of out these display ...
Apple Studio Display Preset Mode Explained & how to create custom preset for Pro Workflow. This video will go over all of the ins and outs of Apple Studio Display include all of the setting and most importantly, the preset - reference mode that is used for pro workflow. This video will walk you ...

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 08, 2023 Feb 08, 2023

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Thank you for all those links. There is quite a bit of valuable information!

I think perhaps my question was clumsily stated when I wrote:
Does anyone know how to preserve the brightness setting on a Macbook Pro? Every time I open it up, it reverts to 50% brightness (no automatic settings are on). Would be great if I could have a stored setting for the built-in display and for the external (Pro XDR) monitor.

 

The flickering is only occuring when the display brightness is at/near maximum based on using the F1/F2 keys on the Macbook keyboard. Whenever I open and close the lid of the Macbook, it resets the brightness of the internal display to 50% of max.

It's part of my workflow to hit F2 to increase brightness nearly every time I open it up. I'm wondering if I can have it retain *this* setting for both the INTERNAL display and the EXTERNAL monitor. 

Thanks for any tips!

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LEGEND ,
Feb 08, 2023 Feb 08, 2023

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M1, NEC SpectraView, and 16" MBP, never see flickering either. 

Is the MacBook Pro lid open or closed? And you don't see it on the Retina display right? 

That it goes away with GPU disabled points to the GPU of course. Yet this could be due to the BenQ. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 08, 2023 Feb 08, 2023

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Thanks for your reply!

 

The issue occurs whether the Macbook lid is open or closed — the flickering appears on the external monitor only. The internal/Retina display does not exhibit such flickering.

 

Yes, I agree — that enabling GPU acceleration results in flickering and disabling it eliminates flickering suggests it is a GPU issue. I suppose it could be an issue with *how* LRC uses the GPU.

 

However, that the macOS brightness utility (F1/F2 on the keyboard) setting affects whether or not the flickering occurs seems to suggest a hardware and/or OS culprit, no?

 

I do not have a BenQ monitor — this is occurring with the Apple Pro XDR Display. Apple was fairly quick to dismiss this as their issue.

It's probably lost above, 

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Community Expert ,
Feb 09, 2023 Feb 09, 2023

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If you read through the MacRumors forum link that I provided above you'll see that the issue is not confined to one application, one display vendor, one connection port, one version of macOS, one of anything other than Apple 'M' series processors.

 

 

 

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 09, 2023 Feb 09, 2023

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Yes, I realize that. I have seen flickering reported in M1 & M2, along with different apps and montiors. 

 

Seemed interesting (to me, of course, as it is my issue) that I could eliminate it by reducing brightness by 2 steps. Would love to find a way to make that the default.

 

 

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 09, 2023 Feb 09, 2023

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To be clear: Yes, it's the M chips, but it is also *an external monitor*. Seems like this isn't happening with the internal retina display from what I've experienced and what I've read.

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Participant ,
May 10, 2023 May 10, 2023

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Hi thanks for posting this. I just took delivery of an M2 MBP two days ago along with an XDR monitor. This afternoon I encountered the flicker when entering the Develop mode in LRClassic. (goes dark, light flash, dark, etc.) Reinstalled a bunch of stuff, restarted machine multiple times, spent entire afternoon troubleshooting, etc. I tried your solution of lowering the screen brightness a notch or two and it works. Thank you and thank heaven!

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New Here ,
Aug 25, 2023 Aug 25, 2023

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Did you ever find a root cause to this problem? I have the same hardware as you and have been experiencing the exact same thing (like you, I also did not experience this on my M1 MacBook Pro). Adjusting the brightness a little isn't a big deal for a workaround, but I am hoping to understand the root cause and ideally fix it "correctly".

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 26, 2023 Aug 26, 2023

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I did not. Keeping brightness at 2 clicks down from max does work for me
consistently, though.

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Community Expert ,
Aug 26, 2023 Aug 26, 2023

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As has already been mentioned above, LrC is not the only application affected by the flickering. I shared below link to lengthy thread on Macrumours discussing the issue https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-pro-m1-external-screen-flickering.2325279/

 So far as I understand the issue, there is no definitive cause or sure fire fix.

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New Here ,
Aug 29, 2023 Aug 29, 2023

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I didn't read this whole MacRumors thread, but I read the initial problem report, and I'm not sure it's the same thing. This issue is not with any dark appearnce, or with any application. It happens only with this configuration:

 

  • MacBook Pro 14" M2 Max - I also have 38 GPU cores, same as OP (I'm running maxOS 13.5 (22G74)). Also like the OP, this did not happen to me with my previous MacBook Pro M1 Max machine.
  • Apple Pro Display XDR. The problem does not happen with other displays, either the built-in display or other external displays I've tried.
  • Adobe Lightroom Classic 12.5 (happened with previous versions for me too) with GPU acceleration turned on.
  • Only in the Develop module. The library module is fine.

 

The problem is also not a high frequency flickering of the entire screen like that shown in the original post of the MacRumors thread. It's an overall dimming of the image area of Lightroom only. It does not affect the rest of the Lightroom UI, and it does not affect any area of the screen outside of the Lightroom application. It will sometimes switch back to normal brightness for a half second or a second as you interact with the UI, but then revert back to appearing dimmed.

 

Also like the OP, I can work around this issue by either turning off GPU acceleration in Lightroom, or by setting my brightness to no higher than two notches above max.

 

Maybe there's something deep in the 9 pages of that MacRumors thread that *is* the same issue. Like I said, I didn't read through the whole thing. I just wanted to be super clear about *this* problem, which I think is the same as what the OP is experiencing, because it's very specific and finding information about it online has been difficult. (Would love to know though if my understanding is not correct though and it actually is the same problem as the one in the MacRumors thread.)

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 29, 2023 Aug 29, 2023

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I agree. (I'm the OP.)

I have not seen this particular issue mentioned elsewhere — nor isolated to this degree.

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Community Expert ,
Aug 26, 2023 Aug 26, 2023

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Realize this is an old thread but: What profile are you using for the XDR display? Any of the HDR ones? I would guess you are overloading the driver circuity on it when HDR mode is enabled and it is set at maximum brightness. Maximum brightness on these monitors is going to be way too bright to do any editing of images except if you are in very bright surroundings so not sure why people would be doing that.  It will result in images edited to be far too dark (you will compensate for the much too bright display).

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 29, 2023 Aug 29, 2023

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Thanks for your reply.

I am using the profile "Pro Display XDR (P3-1600 nits)." I switched to "Apple Display (P3-500 nits)" as a test and did NOT experience the same flickering. It may be that you are onto something.

 

While I have found a workaround, shouldn't one be able to use their hardware (processor & monitor) at any level of brightness, including the maximum?

 

Separately, do you have any tips for setting appropriate brightness when one has to contend with an environment that is brighter than optimal? 

Lately I've been noticing that many people have brightness on their phone set to <50% of maximum — or even between 0 and 25%. This is very different than how I consume media on *my* phone, which of course can affect my own editing choices.

 

I'd love to get this right for a wider audience.

 

Thank you!

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Community Expert ,
Aug 29, 2023 Aug 29, 2023

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Of course you should be able to use the hardware even at top functionality but hardware is not always perfect (not even Apple 😉 ). What is done with these HDR functions is that the areas on the display that are more bright than the standard brightness are done by locally driving the LEDs behind the screen much harder. You can't do this accross the entire display because you simply can't supply enough power. Many HDR capable displays actually dim their non-bright areas when that happens to not run out of power overhead. This will only happen if you drive the display's average brightness at the top of the range. Many HDR capable TVs will do exactly this therefore. I am surprised that this also happens in Apple's displays though as I would have expected them to have the power management figured out.

 

quote

Lately I've been noticing that many people have brightness on their phone set to <50% of maximum — or even between 0 and 25%. This is very different than how I consume media on *my* phone, which of course can affect my own editing choices.

 

I'd love to get this right for a wider audience.

By @ericb14197638

 

Because of this, you should actually run your editing display at much lower brightness. If you edit at extreme brightness like you are doing now, you will end up making your images extremely dark on those users' phones indeed because you'll compensate to the dark side (sorry 😉 ).  Typically you should calibrate the normal whitepoint of your display (not the HDR max brightness but the standard non-HDR 100% brightness!) to 100 to 150 cd/m2 depending on the brightness in your area where you work. This is typically around 50% of the brightness scales on most monitors.

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 29, 2023 Aug 29, 2023

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Copy that.

I have an x-rite i1 Display Pro calibration device, but I've not been able to get it to work with my m1 or m2 macbooks / iOS 13.x. 

If anyone has tips, I'm all ears!

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Community Expert ,
Aug 29, 2023 Aug 29, 2023

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The current slate of calibration devices doesn't work well with HDR displays unfortunately. The only way that works is to turn the HDR off on the display and calibrate that way, or to use the built in calibrations such as the photography calibration that is built in - which turns off the HDR and limits the brightness. The built-in calibration is pretty close on these displays. You can also create a custom mode in the system settings' display calibration panel with HDR turned on but at a limited brightness. 

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 30, 2023 Aug 30, 2023

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Thank you!

I was not able to get the x-rite i1 to work *at all* with the OS.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

I selected "Photography (P3-D65)" as the profile a moment ago. I am no longer able to adjust brightness (via keyboard or Settings>Displays). 

Given what you wrote, is therea way for me to measure the brightness of my display (to see if it is between 100 & 150 cd/m^2)? I understand this is likely to be ~50% in a dimly-lit room; I'd love a way to determine the proper brightness when my ambient lighting is sub-optimal (on the brighter side).

 

Thank you!

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Community Expert ,
Aug 30, 2023 Aug 30, 2023

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You can edit the photography (and other presets) in the system preferences panel. I believe you select custom to create edited presets if I remember correctly. This allows you to create a preset at a preset brightness or one that you can still use the brightness buttons on. The trick is to take a piece of white printer paper, hold it next to your monitor and then change the brightness in the screen so that white on the screen is about the same brightness. Just use an empty window in a text editor to compare. This will bring you to a state where you are not judging white on the screen wrong. Another thing to do is to use a reference image and put it in the screen while you are editing. This also calibrates your mind. There is a good image that people use to calibrate printers that has lots of people pictures as well as some landscapes, flowers and fruits (strawberries) on it that is good for this purpose. The whole idea is to get your mind calibrated right. The exact brightness is then not so important.

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 30, 2023 Aug 30, 2023

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Thank you!

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