Noisy photos problem - mac M2? Denoise? Library vs Develop module? Previews? I can't figure this out

[RWaggoner]

Some of my lowest-light photos have had this sort of colored-noise problem (artifacts?) showing up for the past few months. Any idea what is causing it? It's been since I got a new Macbook Pro (M2 Max) and also around the time that Denoise AI was introduced. 

It doesn't look like typical noise, and part of my problem is that my photos look great in the develop module when I'm viewing the full photo, but if I zoom in or even go to the library module it shows the artifacts. It also shows them on exported jpegs, so it's really making me questsion all of my editing choices if the final output isn't necessarily matching what I'm seeing in the Develop module. 

So far I've tried adjusting the picture profile, playing with different types of "previews", and adjusting manual denoise settings. I've also tried turning on and off the graphics processor setting in the performance tab.

I've attached two jpeg exports of a photo (one without any denoising, and one with Denoise AI), as well as the screenshots of the library and develop modules. Any ideas to help me solve this, or at least help me know that what it's in the develop module is what will actually show on an export?

Camera: Sony A7iv
Photos: RAW
Editing Computer: Macbook Pro (M2 Max)

Attached Photo Settings: 1/160m, F 2.8, ISO 8000 (I know it should be a bit noisy, but in the past I've used Denoise AI to wonderful results with low-light photos like these)
Profile: Adobe Standard
Previews: 1:1 (no smart previews)

[Ian Lyons]

It would be helpful if you would upload one of the raw files to a site such as Dropbox, then post a link to the forum. This would allow us to try replicate the issue.

Note that I have an M1 Ultra Studio, Macbook Pro M3 Max, Mac mini M1 and MacBook Air M3. None have any issues with Denoise.

[RWaggoner]

Here's a link to the RAW:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/g42cdv1ervuhecurfxb90/ADmRmmjK4P1_pN50vs2gZNI?rlkey=biarzz8ge8od4vzla...

[John R Ellis]

I'm seeing good results with that raw on my Macbook Pro M2 Max (2023) / Mac OS 14.5 / LR 13.4.  Attached is the JPEG exported from Denoise, Exposure = +3.6, which looks pretty good.

Suggested next steps:

1. Select the denoised DNG with the issue, do Metadata > Save Metadata To File, upload the DNG to Dropbox, and post the sharing link here.

2. Do the LR menu command Help > System Info and copy/paste the entire contents here so we can see exactly which versions of hardware and software LR thinks you're running and important LR options that are set.

[RWaggoner]

Sure thing!

DNG with metadata saved to it:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/g42cdv1ervuhecurfxb90/ADmRmmjK4P1_pN50vs2gZNI?rlkey=biarzz8ge8od4vzla...

Lightroom Classic version: 13.4 [ 202406181129-60d181b7 ]
License: Creative Cloud
Language setting: en-US
Operating system: Mac OS 14
Version: 14.6.1 [23G93]
Application architecture: arm64
Logical processor count: 12
Processor speed: NA
SqLite Version: 3.36.0
Power Source: Plugged In, 78%, Charging
Built-in memory: 98,304.0 MB
Dedicated GPU memory used by Lightroom: 60.8MB / 73,728.0MB (0%)
Real memory available to Lightroom: 98,304.0 MB
Real memory used by Lightroom: 3,749.7 MB (3.8%)
Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 410,983.8 MB
Memory cache size: 33.5MB
Internal Camera Raw version: 16.4 [ 1897 ]
Maximum thread count used by Camera Raw: 5
Camera Raw SIMD optimization: SSE2
Camera Raw virtual memory: 2016MB / 49151MB (4%)
Camera Raw real memory: 2028MB / 98304MB (2%)

Cache1:
Final1- RAM:1,230.0MB, VRAM:0.0MB, DSC01531-Enhanced-NR.dng
Preview2- RAM:22.0MB, VRAM:0.0MB, DSC01524-Enhanced-NR.dng
Preview3- RAM:22.0MB, VRAM:0.0MB, DSC01546-Enhanced-NR.dng
Preview4- RAM:22.0MB, VRAM:0.0MB, DSC01519-Enhanced-NR.dng
Final5- RAM:261.0MB, VRAM:0.0MB, DSC01527-Enhanced-NR.dng
Preview6- RAM:22.0MB, VRAM:0.0MB, DSC01544-Enhanced-NR.dng
Preview7- RAM:22.0MB, VRAM:0.0MB, DSC01539.ARW
Final8- RAM:261.0MB, VRAM:0.0MB, DSC01531.ARW
Preview9- RAM:22.0MB, VRAM:0.0MB, DSC01525-Enhanced-NR.dng
Preview10- RAM:22.0MB, VRAM:0.0MB, DSC01542-Enhanced-NR.dng
NT- RAM:1,906.0MB, VRAM:0.0MB, Combined:1,906.0MB

Cache2:
m:33.5MB, n:2,052.0MB

U-main: 82.0MB

Standard Preview Size: 1440 pixels
Displays: 1) 3456x2234, 2) 2560x1080

Graphics Processor Info:
Metal: Apple M2 Max
Init State: GPU for Export supported by default
User Preference: Off

Application folder: /Applications/Adobe Lightroom Classic
Library Path: /Users/ryanwaggoner/Documents/Lightroom Catalogs/Lightroom Catalog 30-v13-3.lrcat
Settings Folder: /Users/ryanwaggoner/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Lightroom

Installed Plugins:
1) AdobeStock
2) Aperture/iPhoto Importer Plug-in
3) Flickr
4) Nikon Tether Plugin
5) Smart Shooter 5
6) SmugMug

Config.lua flags:

[Per Berntsen]

I downloaded both the ARW and DNG files, and I'm getting exactly the same results as you on a Windows computer, with

Denoise set to 50, and your edits applied.

The main problem is that the image is severely underexposed, which leads to a lot of noise.

Digital cameras capture a lot of information (levels) in the highlights, and then gradually less and less information in the darker areas. Your image only has shadow values and blacks (no mid tones or highlights), and when you brighten these low-level tones, it inevitably leads to noise. To make matters worse, you have applied Texture, Clarity and Dehaze, which all emphasize the noise.

There is also a strong green noise in the darkest area of the image. I have never seen this before, so I'm not sure if this is something particular to your camera, or if it's just caused by the severe underexposure.

Much of the green noise will disappear when you turn off Texture, Clarity and Dehaze, and it will improve further if you disable the mask for the subject, which is set to Exposure + 0.42.

part of my problem is that my photos look great in the develop module when I'm viewing the full photo, but if I zoom in or even go to the library module it shows the artifacts

When working with sharpening, noise or other image detail, you have to view the image at 100%.

At this magnification, one image pixel is represented by one screen pixel, and this is the only view that presents you with a true representation of the image. Any other magnification will be inaccurate and misleading because the image has been scaled.

You need to start exposing your images better, that is giving them more exposure.

Your image was exposed at 1/160 second, if you had used 1/20 second, you would have had much less noise, although it would still have been 2-3 stops underexposed.

Displaying the histogram in the viewfinder is very useful in any situation, and can help you avoid underexposure.

I've written an article about exposure that goes into more detail than what's possible here. You may find it useful.

Exposing a digital image

[John R Ellis]

To add to Per's comments, the issue is unrelated to Denoise. The same problem occurs with both the raw and the denoised DNG. I think the best you can do is to use the denoised version and adjust Exposure to about 3.5 and not try to recover the shadows (there are no details in the shadows, just noise) (as seen in the JPEG I attached above).