P: Computer crashes/Shuts down while using Denoise

[johnatg1]

anybody else having an issue with ACR / Lightroom new AI Denoise - just shuting down your computer [ like someone just unplugged it from the wall - shut down ]?  Everytime I go to apply the NEW AI Denoise in ACR - or lightroom - the computer just turns off. 

2019 27" iMAC 12.6.5  running 64GB Ram

Adobe apps all up to date - 

[Nothings Ville]

Please note that it is your GPU that is overheating. Build up of dust and the thermal pad has evaporated. Clean and replace. This is the reason that it is affecting more older cards than newer. Same solution.

[Nothings Ville]

Your GPU is overheating due to the thermal pad having or is in the process of evaporating. It needs to be replaced. The card also likely has a build up of dust.

[PKers]

 I may have found a solution tot the crash problem - at least for me...

By first enhancing the raw file choosing  Raw Detail  you can subsequently enhance the file again with Noise Reduction.

In this case the Noise reduction is applied to the enhanced Raw detail file ( that is enhanced for the second time) and in this case no crash on my computer - at least i could do 35 files in a row...

The solution also leads to a better dng at the end of the pipeline. In my case this dubble enhancement is 10 + 20 sec on one 46MP nikon lossless compressed Raw file.

[PKers]

my problems are over with  Build 13.2 of LR.

I can now even do other things while LR runs through more than 200 files.

So they found a siolution.

My graphic cardnow hits 68 degrees celcius without any problem, zo overheating was not the issue.

[Giusva]

I'll try as soon as I have time to update I hope that's the case

[Nik366325139qor]

Just to bring up an old thread. Recently installed LRc on my PC as well as MacBook Pro 2019 and run Ai Denoise on a few files.

Winows 11 Pro
Radeon RX590 Armour GFX
Ryzen 7 3700x 3.6GHz
X570 Aorus Elite Mobo
32 GB Corsair Vengance 3.6GHz DDR4 RAM

It's never caused a crash on my macbook, however my PC has had hell trying to deal with it. It would start, then seemingly depending on the phase of the moon, either complete, or screen would go black, GPU fans to full speed and I would have to restart, after which the computer continues on like nothing happened.
the solution posted by TheKevinFenix31935207pzsy has been the best so far.

I've just spent the morning reducing GPU Timing (Clock speed) by 10MHz, along with GPU Voltage by 10mV FOR EVERY STEP/STATE, running an Ai Denoise to see if it crashes, and also a benchmark test like FurMark to see if it remains stable. Then reducing further until it crashes, and finally bringing it back up to the last stable state.

I have also adjusted The fan speeds to be a little faster than before, and set the max power consumtion -6%

As it stands, the GPU temp is down by 10 degrees and power consumption down by 45W at peak load. There is a tiny tiny time penalty running the denoise for a 42MP ARW from an A7Rii, but im talking 5 to 10 extra seconds for something that for me takes 30/45 seconds on my machine. I'd much rather the process finishes than be done in less time.

Thank you again TheKevinFenix31935207pzsy

[D Fosse]

@Nik366325139qor 

The short answer is that this GPU apparently isn't up to the task. It could be a buggy driver. The GPU model was released in 2018, so six years old.

I'm not familiar with AMD GPUs, but the first thing to do is update to the latest non-gaming driver, and disable/uninstall all gaming components. As I understand, AMD is much more agressively targeting their GPUs and drivers to the gaming community.

[Nik366325139qor]

Oh absolutely it's a little long in the tooth, but with some tweaking it's been good as gold. Switched off all gaming components as you say, and slowed the GPU by somewhere between 5 and 10%.

I've tried using the "Pro" drivers which are apparently more stable, but the "Adrenaline" drivers have yielded much better results.

I did think it could be to do with my PSU, and that I still a possibility. I've run Denoise on ~100 42MP photos with no issues. The slowing of the GPU through it's proprietary software showed a 10 second increase in processing time.

A newer GPU would be great... But this is all I've got for the time being! Glad someone found a workaround.

[Ian Lyons]

Others users have found that the particular issue you're experiencing is due to the GPU overheating. The solution being to vacumm the interior of the computer or at very least, clean the ventilation posts.

[barryp72874711]

My Mac with a 4GB AMD RX 560 shut down immediately when running the AI denoise feature.

After rebooting and trying to run AI denoise a second time, it shut down again, only this time it refused to turn back on - the PSU was completely dead. So, I bought a new PSU and a new GPU (an 8GB RX 570 this time) and AI denoise worked for a while but I have just had another restart. Disabling GPU acceleration in Lightroom preferences makes no difference - it still uses the GPU regardless.

My other Mac has an RX 5700 (also 8GB) and it runs AI denoise flawlessly without a single unexpected shutdown.

So, is it a bug in the Lightroom code? or is it the GPU, or the power supply? Does the denoise only work with Navi cards or newer? If so, wouldn't it be wise for Lightroom to display a warning to users if it detects a Polaris card, in order to save some power supplies from being bricked?

[Ian Lyons]

You're GPU maybe overheating. The solution being to vacumm the interior of the computer or at very least, clean the ventilation ports.

[johnm5534704]

Been experiencing the same problem repeatedly for a while. Consistently with Denoise AI but also regularly with general LR and PS usage. Particularly seems to occur with larger image galleries. I have a powerful 2019 iMac and have taken it for diagnostics which found no issues with hardware. This is significantly impeding my workflow and ability to complete projects. Please help Adobe!

[Nothings Ville]

Okay, the issue  is going to be with your graphics card. AI Denoise is causing your card to overheat. The older the GPU is the more likely this is the issue. Inside your card is or rather was a thermal pad. Overtime it evaporates due to the heat becoming less and less effective until it eventually disappears all together. This is why your GPU card is overheating and without a thermal pad, so quickly and shutting down the system.

To add to this, your card has also likey accumilated much dust within, which only adds to the problem. The fix is relatively simple, replace the thermal pad. And clean out any build up of dust. This applies to almost, if not all users who are experiencing this problem.

Adobe have only recently begun to address this problem, but the likelihood is that if your card is a few years old that whatever they've done or are attempting to do will not fix the problem due to the two main reasons that I have highlighted.

Your only other choice is to purchase a new GPU card. The fix is relatively simple to do, but I would recomned that you get a qualified service agent to do this. Your local computer shop which offers servicing should be able to do this. They would have the right tools and the thermal pads.

It is rather like the paste used to protect your cpu chip but it's a thermal pad. Having done this you will notice a marked improvement in performance and you should also no longer experience this shutdown when using AI Denoise in both Lightroom and Photoshop ACR.

If, which most haven't you get an error code the issue could lay else where as this particular issue shuts the system down. But this is still worth considering. You need to find out what the error code means. 

Hope this helps.

Soulmansblue

[triceracop]

Gonna add something really weird here

When using AI denoise, my GPU PEAKS to its maximum hotspot temperature (it ONLY does this with GPU benchmarks, which are nowhere the normal use case) in about 2 to 3 seconds. It's absolutely INSANE that it does this, and i suppose thats why some people are crashing their entire PCs. Mine does this and fails with a GPU error.

This is with a HEAVY undervolt by the way

RX 6700XT 12gb, 5800x and 32GBs of RAM, Windows 11 with latest AMD drivers.

[Nik366325139qor]

It is mental isn't it... Even the heaviest of benchmarks don't skyrocket my temperatures that quickly. I had spend an afternoon undervolting and underclocking to try and find a balance.

My RX 590 Armor 8G OC is old and hot out of the box, no doubt about it (and pristinely clean unlike someone further up the thread suggested), but it does the job just fine with some tweaking. Around 30 seconds for a 42MP ARW file isn't so bad for a 

I was actually looking at picking up an RX6700XT, they seem really good value! I could always use the 590 to heat the bathroom in winter ....

[Ian Lyons]

If you look back through this thread, you'll see that the Denoise issues are mostly with AMD GPUs. Therefore, I'd be very wary of going with AMD.

[Nothings Ville]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss AMD, you'll likely find that these cards are older and that is the reason why it appears to be happening more with the AMD cards. All they require is the dust to be removed and a new thermal pad and they will be as good as new. And with that no overheating and no AI Denoise taking out the system.

[D Fosse]

If you look back through this thread, you'll see that the Denoise issues are mostly with AMD GPUs. Therefore, I'd be very wary of going with AMD.

By @Ian Lyons

Yes, that has been my distinct impression for a long time. Not just Denoise, but inexplicable crashing and memory leak issues. And not just Lightroom, but Photoshop as well. 

The statistics just seem pretty unambiguous.

My own theory is that AMD is very specifically targeting the gaming segment. That's their market.

[Nothings Ville]

With regard to AMD targeting in the main, the game market, I wouldn't be so sure. AMD provide a driver for gaming and another for the professional market for those who are using workstations rather than gaming.

They have their Radeon Pro Edition Drivers and their Radeon Adrenalin Drivers which are aimed at gaming. The Pro Edition are far more stable and more suited to the Pro cards, but you can run both. Using a gaming card to run Lightroom or Photoshop is likely to put more stress on the card, especially if using the Adrenalin driver.

At the end of the day, it comes down to horses for courses. Though with the AI Denoise issue, card age plays a big part, along with the condition of the card  internally, not cosmetically. And yes, I use an AMD card. I have an 8 year old WX7100 which is now running extremely well with no overheating and zero shutdowns when using AI Denoise in Photoshop.

And as AI Denoise is part of both Lightroom and Photoshop, that's the reason that AMD cards are having issues in both. And the issue isn't just limited to AMD cards, there are quite a number of Nividia Cards that have been hit by this issue as well.

[Nothings Ville]

Is that prestine on the outside of the card or on the inside?

I seriously doubt that many of us open up our cards and remove the dust that builds up on the inside.

If you open it up, you'll be surprised at just how much dust has built up. And while you're at it check your thermal pad is still there. Again both depend on the age of your card, the older the more likely you'll find that these are the reasons your GPU is overheating. And if so, putting this right could save you picking up another card and give your old card a new lease of life.

[Nik366325139qor]

It's pristine on the inside too. I replaced the thermal pad and gave it a good once over after the first time it went bang from running AI denoise. The cooling performance of the card is sub par anyway, so undervolting/underclocking is still neccesary, but like I said, it's a 5 second time penalty per image purely because it's an old card. I've never had issues with it until I came across denoise, and it has been thoroughly cleaned once already a few years back due to some gaming on max setttings for everything, but it just keeps on truckin'. (for now)

Re: voiding AMD because theyre main market is gaming... Probably true, and from my research the architecture of newer NVidia cards is more suited to this kind of workload (tensor cores...etc), and on average they seem to perform better, albeit a slightly higher price bracket for similar performance. I'll look into it more when it becomes a real show-stopper of a problem for me.

I only wanted to share my findings for those of us that can't / don't want to upgrade cards at the moment. A little tweaking can get it running fine without throwing money at the problem.

[Nothings Ville]

Nice one, that's what I've done and again like you looking to share it with others.

AMD have always been the better performance bang for buck and NIVIDIA the overal better performer. Unlike you though I have found the AMD cards to be better suited to my needs. I haven't played gamers in like thirty years, I'm more pro active and always push both GPU and CPU, often maxing them both out, memory too at times.

Right now I'm pushing my GPY an AMD WX7100 to see how much of an improvement has been made. I'm using AI Denoise in PS to Batch process 10 Nikon NEF FX images, it has two left to do. Extimated processing time was 372 minutes, so far its taken well under 30 minutes. Before any extimate 2 minute process would crash the system. Each of the 10 images on their own were estimated at 2 minutes. One to go., sorry thats it, all done. I'm pretty happy with that.

I'm wondering if I can increase the memory capacity and add the latest type of memory wich I think would be DDR6, just a thought. Pleased to find someone who knows how to look after their system. I was fortunate enough to find a tech locally who was able to do this for me.

Take care.

[triceracop]

VRAM generations are not interchangeable, you cant swap from GDDR4 to GDDR6X on the same graphics card, the tech that said he could do it is bs'ing you, you CAN add VRAM to say, a card with 8x1GB vram chips to like 8x2gb vram chips (They did it with a RTX 3070 back last year) . Your best option is to get a RTX 4060ti 16gb or at least a RX 6750XT with 12GBs of VRAM

[triceracop]

Also adding to the discussion, the problem is not an issue of VRAM, the AI processing barely uses it. It's probably an issue with scheduling or something to do specifically with adobe apps, it didn't happen before, why does it happen now?

[triceracop]

Also adding VRAM to a GPU is a VERY hard process, its basically not worth it at all, just get a new gpu, the WX7100 is a very old card.