P: Recommended order of Edits (Lr & CR)

[tm255]

I recently saw a blurb attributed to Adobe saying that if one elects to use the Denoise tool that it should be the first step in the editing process before anything else is done, and it made me wonder if there is a "best" or "preferred" order for applying other tools like Enhance Details, Super Resolution, or for that matter if there exists a general guideline of the order in which one should attack the editing process?  It seems to me that setting white balance should be done before adjusting saturation, for example, but I'm wondering what I may be overlooking in the order of other steps? 

Thanks for any suggestions!

[JohanElzenga]

These tools generate a new image, so it makes sense to do that first and then edit that new image.

[Ian Lyons]

The order suggested by Adobe is set out in the Help document that I've linked below. These are aimed at providing the best performance. The order in which the edits are processed internally within the application is not shared pubically.

Order of Develop operations

The best order of Develop operations to increase performance is as follows:

1. Spot healing.
2. Geometry corrections, such as Lens Correction profiles and Manual corrections, including keystone corrections using the Vertical slider.
3. Global non-detail corrections, such as Exposure and White Balance. These corrections can also be done first if desired.
4. Local corrections, such as Gradient Filter and Adjustment Brush strokes.
5. Detail corrections, such as Noise Reduction and Sharpening.

Note: Performing spot healing first improves the accuracy of the spot healing, and ensures the boundaries of the healed areas match the spot location.

https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/lightroom-classic/kb/optimize-performance-lightroom.html

[tm255]

Thank you!  That is the kind of guide I was looking for.

I assume that the preferred overall order then is

1) Denoise 2) Enhance Detail or Super Resolution (I still have a lot to learn about these) 3) Ordered development operations as outlined.

[Keith Reeder]

Just remember that the Adobe recommendations are only related to performance: they make no meaningful difference if your question is related to image quality, as the hard-coded internal processing pipleline applies settings in its own predefined order, regardless of what order you applied them. 

So just do what you need to do to make the image look good, and don't worry about what order to apply the adjustments - the end result is all that matters, because the actual order of adjustments is out of your hands anyway.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Exception: Currently you must Heal before AI selections for quality reasons - not performance.

[Keith Reeder]

Not sure about that; Rikk - if I AI Denoise and then export, I can then heal and do anything else I feel the need to do, in any order, because I'm working on a new file. So there's a de facto (and Real World) use-case for - in effect - AI Denoise before heal, right there. 

[tm255]

Yes my only concern is image quality, not performance.

I'm going to print out Rikk's list and use that as my flow sheet.

Thanks again to everyone who weighed in on this!

[Chris West Photography]

Hi Keith, any idea what that hard coded pipeline order of processing is?

[Rikk Flohr: Photography · Accepted solution]

Effective with the June 2025 release, the new recommended order will be: 

1. HDR and/or Panorama merges
2. Denoise, Raw Details, & Super Resolution
3. Reflection Removal
4. Distracting People Removal
5. Generative Expand (Currently only in the ACR Tech Preview)
6. Generative and Content-Aware Remove
7. Lens Blur
8. Lens Profile
9. Crop /Transform
10. Profile
11. Global Adjustments
12. 11. Local Adjustments (Masking)

See updates to the Helpx here: https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/lightroom-classic/kb/optimize-performance-lightroom.html 

And this new Article here: 

https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/using/ai-edit-status.html 

[JohanElzenga]

Note: We are in the process of revising this document. The new recommended order will be: 

1. Denoise
2. CAR/Heal/Spot
3. Lens Profile Corrections (CA & Profile if available)/Geometry 
4. Crop
5. Profile
6. Global Adjustments 
7. Local Adjustments 

3 and 4 may switch positions in the final doc...

By @Rikk Flohr: Photography

I would not switch 3 and 4! If you crop first, and then apply a lens profile, then you may find that the profile corrections cut off something you did not intend to cut off, or reveal something again that you just cropped out.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Not likely to move from the list I have just updated...

[Ian Lyons]

While I understand the rationale for the order recommended above, I think there is a contradiction at 2 and 3. The issue being that images imported from numerous Mirrorless cameras now have the lens correction profiles embedded/applied by default, and in some cases they cannot be disabled. As such, it's not possible to apply 'Content-Aware Remove/Heal/Spot' in advance of 'Lens Profile Corrections'.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

We will probably address that in the Helpx doc when published. Here I listed them in short form. On today's doc there are explanations accompanying and I expect to continue having a brief qualifier on each line.

[Ian Lyons]

Thanks, Rikk, I was going to suggest a qualifier, but decided it best to just highlight the potential issue.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Another item we will call out is Denoise. If AI Denoise, it needs to be first. If using legacy noise removal, it can be farther down the list...

[Keith Reeder]

"1. AI Denoise

2. Content-Aware Remove/Heal/Spot"

"Currently you must Heal before AI selections for quality reasons".

Just for the sake of clarity, Rikk - by "selections", can you confirm that you don't mean "choices of any AI-based functionality", and that you actually do mean "AI masking"?

If it's the former, then those two quotes directly contradict each other. 

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

No. It doesn't.
"Currently you must Heal before AI selections for quality reasons"

Key word here is "Selections". AI Denoise is not a selection...

[Keith Reeder]

My point - and it's a legitimate one - is that if I select AI Denoise, it is, by definition, a "selection".

That needed to be clarified, because your original wording was ambiguous - funny thing the English language, words can have more than one meaning...

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

@Ian Lyons  Note that this document was updated over the weekend.  Doubtless there will be changes in conjunction with yet-to-be released features. 

[Ian Lyons]

@Rikk Flohr: Photography the link I provided above is dated 15 March 2023 and shows the original order. Could you provide a link to the updated version you mention?

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/kb/optimize-performance-lightroom.html

You might be looking at the UK version. It takes a while for things to propagate to all locals. 

[Ian Lyons]

Yes, the link I shared above includes a reference to the UK version. The link you've just provided takes me to the US version and is dated 28 August 2023. I've also saved it for future reference.