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Phantom Keyword - I how can I remove this

Participant ,
Jan 20, 2025 Jan 20, 2025

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I hope some one can help me with this.... 

 

I have no photos in my current catalog from China and do not have China as Keyword and it does not appear when I select in "Keyword Tags",  just "Keywords". However, when either I select "Keywords & Containing Keywords" or "Will Export" China apears and I cannot delete this from the displayed list.

 

I have no idea how this has happened. I'm hoping that someone can tell why this is happening and how to fix it.  Please note I do not have a metadata preset using this keyword. 

 

It's fustrating not knowing and perhaps it isn't fixable but at least I would like to know how to stop it going forward. 

 

Thank you

 

Attaching a couple of screen grabs to illustrate the issue.

 

Enter KeywordEnter KeywordKeywords & Containing KeywordsKeywords & Containing Keywords

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , Jan 21, 2025 Jan 21, 2025

options:

 

there is some keyword nesting going on ('China' keyword is not applied to the images separately and directly, but some keyword which is applied has got 'China' as its parent keyword, hence showing up for these images indirectly) 

 

(noting that more than one 'China' can exist within the overall keywords list, if differently nested)

 

one or more of the keywords you do see may possess "China" as an additional synonym: and that will show up in exports, also function equivalently for sea

...

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Community Expert ,
Jan 20, 2025 Jan 20, 2025

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Go to the Keyword List and type "China" into the search bar at the top of the panel. Any keywords containing the word "China" will appear in the resulting list. Roll the cursor over the keyword that you'd like to Delete and R-click (PC) or CTRL-click (Mac) to reveal the contextual menu and select Delete. The Keyword "China" will be removed from the catalog. As an aside, If you click on the small checkmark next to the keyword, the keyword will be removed from any image that has it attached, but stay in the catalog.

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Participant ,
Jan 21, 2025 Jan 21, 2025

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Thanks goaskerin but unfortunatly I had already tried that but it didn't find the keyword (see attached screenshot). Meanwhile when the Grid view and select for photos with "China" nearly all the photos in the catalog are displayed (second screenshot). The only images without "China" keyword are those I have not added any keywords.  

Its very fustrating as I cannot find a quick fix, or even if there is a fix for this. Any insight would be greatly appreciated 

 

Brendan

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Community Expert ,
Jan 21, 2025 Jan 21, 2025

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options:

 

there is some keyword nesting going on ('China' keyword is not applied to the images separately and directly, but some keyword which is applied has got 'China' as its parent keyword, hence showing up for these images indirectly) 

 

(noting that more than one 'China' can exist within the overall keywords list, if differently nested)

 

one or more of the keywords you do see may possess "China" as an additional synonym: and that will show up in exports, also function equivalently for searches (finding all the same images) - just the same as if there had been a real keyword of that name separately applied

 

If you are applying keywords mainly by typing them or by selecting them in the Keywording panel, it may be that you are not monitoring what is going on in the Keywords list. One thing that trips people up sometimes: if a given keyword is (accidentally perhaps) set to this option

richardplondon_0-1737480852792.png

 

and subsequently you create all kinds of new ones in the Keywording interface, you may remain unaware that unintentional nesting of those has been going on meanwhile. That situation can be rectified - the Keywords List panel being the place to do that.

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Participant ,
Jan 21, 2025 Jan 21, 2025

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Hello Richardplondon,

 

I think I have sort of fixed this thanks to your tips. It would appear that "China" has unknowingly been added to almost all the keywords using "Put new keywords inside this keyword" How that could have happened I have no idea. I was not able to remove this keyword as I cannot see it except when I select "Keywords & Containing Keywords" or "Will Export" which are not editable lists.

 

That said, I went through ALL my keywords one by one and unchecked "Export Containing Passwords" option in "Edit Keyword Tag...". Now when I select for "Will Export", China no longer appears!! For me this is the best fixed and I have ticked "Correct Answer".  Thanks so much!

 

One last question, any idea how to remove this "hidden" keyword for once and for all?

 

Thanks again,

Brendan

 

 

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LEGEND ,
Jan 21, 2025 Jan 21, 2025

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@Brendan D Rowlands: "One last question, any idea how to remove this "hidden" keyword for once and for all?"

 

Do the Library menu command Metadata > Export Keywords > Exclude Keyword Tag Options > Exclude Keyword Tag Options. Open the .txt file in Excel or a text editor.  Search for China, and if it's in the .txt file, attach the file here.

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Participant ,
Jan 22, 2025 Jan 22, 2025

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Thanks Johnrellis,

I'll check this out. If I do find it there and delete it in the text file can I re-import and maintain the images currently assigned to the keywords or will I have to reassign (ie: start from scratch)

Regards, Brendan

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Community Expert ,
Jan 22, 2025 Jan 22, 2025

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The place to sort this out is in the Keyword List panel, not in the Keywording panel

richardplondon_0-1737535987347.png

 

The Keyword List panel shows you any keyword nesting that exists. Keywords that are dragged out of a particular nesting will stop showing that as a parent keyword. You can highlight a number of keywords to do this, e.g. clicking the first in a sequence and shift-clicking the last. Then drag to another place in the list - that is not within "China". Dragging partway down the list will nest them inside another keyword instead. But right at the top of the list there is a narrow gap you can drag them to, which removes them from all nesting. It may take one or two goes to locate this, it's quite a precise target. 

 

That said, personally I think keyword nesting is a great feature when done intentionally, so you may want to implement some sort of scheme anyway and drag your keywords into more suitable parent ones.

 

A parent keyword is simply any normal keyword. which one or more others have been either created or else later dragged inside.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 22, 2025 Jan 22, 2025

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Community Expert ,
Jan 22, 2025 Jan 22, 2025

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Just to point out, deleting an unwanted keyword also deletes any child keywords it has (you should see a warning message first).

 

So if you still want those other keywords (as they are assigned variously to lots of images), you should not simply delete that unwanted parent. You should re-organise these wanted keywords (centrally, in the List) so they are no longer nested inside that unwanted one.

 

Then this unwanted 'China' keyword will stop showing up indirectly as a parent keyword, on any images. However, any images which had got 'China' directly assigned in its own right - intentionally - will continue to show this as one of their standard keywords.

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Participant ,
Jan 22, 2025 Jan 22, 2025

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Hello Johnplondon,

 

I really appreciate the time you have given in helping me and it has been great to have as it has resolved the major issue of the "China" keyword being exported. when I exported an image.

 

The root issue is that in this catalog there are no images of China, the Keyword "China" is not visable in the keyword list, either as a parent or child. I have also tried to seach for it using the search window in the Keyword List tab and it does not show there either. 

 

So you are aware, I am using the nesting feature and during the review I did yesterday to fix the issue I found that "China" is only included in the export when the "last child" (sometimes "grandchild") of the root (parent) keyword and has no visable child keywords itself and the "Export Containing Passwords" is selected. Having the "Export Containing Keywords" unchecked at this point resolved the "Will Export" issue. I'll do another review and let you know if anything pops up.

 

Regards, Brendan

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LEGEND ,
Jan 22, 2025 Jan 22, 2025

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There have been a few scattered reports in the past of phantom parent keywords, similar to your symptoms with "China", and others have had success doing a low-level repair to the catalog database.  But as a first step, let's verify this is what you're experiencing by examining the output from Export Keywords, as described above.

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Participant ,
Jan 23, 2025 Jan 23, 2025

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Hello again

I have been going through the keyword hierachy. I only started the hierachy perhaps 6 months ago. I created top level "Themes" :

GENRE, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN etc etc. 

The mystery "China" keyword only appears when I have the option "Export containing keywords" for these top level  KW's. See attachements. This suggests to me that "China" is above what I consider the top level themes. I have exported the keywords to .txt file and .csv but "China" is not shown anywhere. I'm guessing its something I'm going to have to live with this and just remember that they have this problem.

 

Screenshot 2025-01-23 at 9.22.49 p.m..pngScreenshot 2025-01-23 at 9.23.28 p.m..png

 

 

 

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Community Expert ,
Jan 24, 2025 Jan 24, 2025

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Very strange - perhaps a corruption in the Catalog. There's a Preferences option to write out "keywords as Lightroom hierarchy" which may allow inspection of a special metadata field in the export - this is distinct from the standard keywords which e.g. the OS file browser will display. The "as Lightroom hierarchy" info contains nesting info which might differ from what is seen in the Keywords List panel, if Catalog is corrupted.

 

Nuclear option test is to Export as Catalog - un-tick "selected images only" to get all images, and un-tick "include originals" so as not to create duplicates of all the source files. This is non-destructive so far as your current Catalog and images. Then you can open this exported Catalog - it will contain everything seen in the current Catalog (edit History, Collections, all that) just not Publish setups and some other matters IIRC. But as it is created, in my experience anything structurally corrupted tends to get re-made as good, or else if unusable gets omitted. So the result should be all known-good info.

 

Oh, for completeness, there is sometimes 'trimming' when a Catalog has got a very long list of keywords to display. It is possible this may lead to some keywords not appearing. Collapsing down the nesting (such that a less long overall list needs to be displayed at a time) may work around this glitch temporarily.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 27, 2025 Jan 27, 2025

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@Brendan D Rowlands: "I have exported the keywords to .txt file and .csv but "China" is not shown anywhere."

 

That confirms you've tripped over the "orphan keyword" bug that a number of others have reported over the years. LR introduced an inconsistency into the catalog database keyword tables.

 

If you're technically adept, it's straightforward to use a database tool to remove the "China" keyword. Here's the best recipe I know of:

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/threads/corrupt-keyword-file-what-to-do.44334/#post-1293663

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