Photo moves to Modified Photos to Re-Publish for no reason

Explorer ,
Jan 18, 2022 Jan 18, 2022

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Hope I am posting this is the correct place....

This BUG (marking images a needing to be "re-published") is driving me nuts and really making LRC loose some of it value to me.   For a long while I have experienced this "bug" not really realizing the severity of it (more LRC editedphotos now than before).   Everytime I open LRC (ver 11.1 now) I find more and more photos needing to be "re-published".  

I can understand and accept a bug is s/w as long as it is fixed, but looking at all the postings this bug goes way back to to 2016 or ealier (think I read on posting from 2015) with LRC ver. 2015.6 - we are now on LRC ver 11.1 and 5-6 years later with no fix.  NOT fixing something like this after so long really does not have an excuse.   What is worse, one does not even know if images are being affected in other ways when being constantly marked for replublising.

I can have folders not show images needing to be republished and then turn around the next day/hour/week, etc. and then they will show up as needing to be replushing.   What is even worse I can have 1 or several images needing to be replushed and then "republish" them and get and according affect of images needing to be republished while updating.  It can just from a few images to a large number and back down and back up before completing.

I can mark the image as "Mark as up-to-date" and then will change their status - for this time period.  Open up LRC again, and the same (or some of the same) images are flagged as "Modified Photos to Re-Publish" again.

Needless to say, this is getting very, very tiring and wasting a lot of timeon managing one LRC catalogue.  MORE IMPORTANTLY - it is making one loose faith in LRC and almost looking for alternatives to managing/editing my photo catalogues - as much as I like the Adobe Photography package plan.

PLEASE, PLEASE FIX THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL .....

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Explorer ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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Following up on a reply from Rikk Flohr - thanks for moving this posting to the proper place.  As for your question about reproducing....   for me it is actually simple - just open LRC (any of the recent versions) and images in "Published Services". Make sure all are "Published" and then go back to LRC later and you (I and other according to post I find) will see "Modifiewd Photos to Re-Publish" above the "Published Photos".   One really has to do nothing other than open up LRC and check the images in Published Services.  IMPORTANT to note that it is not always the same images - although it can be the same folders.

As an example - I did a "Mark as Up-To-Date" on all the photos in a sub-folder of a folder earlier today, and this evening 11 images are requiring to be "re-published" - when all was OK earlier today.   If I "Re-Publish" rather than do A Mark as Up-To-Date" it will act like an according increasing the number of images and reducing the number of images and then increasing again - before re-publishing all.   Sample screen shots are attached.

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New Here ,
Jan 15, 2022 Jan 15, 2022

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I found several threads that mention the issue of the system marking photos for republishing by itself but I didn't find any fix...I can't be alone with this issue. It's absolutely maddening to try and work in on my published folders only to see all the photos start to move around as the system seems to arbitrarily decide to start marking photos to republish.  I've had the issue since I went on the subscription model.

 

I'm on a mac with the latest software.

 

Please help!

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LEGEND ,
Jan 15, 2022 Jan 15, 2022

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The only workaround I'm aware of is from six years ago. Since it appears there could be multiple causes for these symptoms, that workaround may or may not work for you:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-bugs/p-photos-incorrectly-considered-as-quot-change... 

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New Here ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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Thansk but from what I read, the cure is worse than the disease and since it's 6 years later and it's still happening on the current version, it would seem that Adobe really doesn't care about it.

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New Here ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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I tried the save metadata and read metadata trick to no avail. It immediately began marking photos for republishing.And certainly marking them all as up to date is a waste of time. It's funny, as I am wrining this in Chrome, I can see LR adding photos to be republished behind this window. It added about 50 while I typed this...an I'm not in LR right now!

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Adobe Employee ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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A list of repeatable steps would go a long way towards solving the issue. 

 

I publish collections several times a week and do not encounter the issue so having some step-by-step would help immensely. 

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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New Here ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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There are no steps. Just opening a published folder in the library module is all it takes then it’s off to the races.


Regards,

Dana

<Personal Information Removed for Privacy>

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New Here ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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Played some more, it usually immediately marks any photo I select as modified, but not always, and it seems to randomly select other nearly photos in the filmstrip, but not always, as it is also random at times. It also threw bunch into the "deleted photos to remove" bucket for the first time.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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"A list of repeatable steps would go a long way towards solving the issue."

 

I think one cause of the issue is the combination of older photos, perhaps older process versions, combined with catalog upgrades (see my next post). So it could be very difficult to come up with a simple recipe reproducing the bug.

 

My largest catalog currently has 176 published collections with 7147 photos needing republishing. Almost all of those predate LR 11, and most of those modified photos don't involve changes to non-develop metadata (keywords, etc.).  

 

So I think if the engineering team wants to track this down, they'll most likely have to obtain copies of one or more catalogs that have been struck by the bug and put them under the microscope.  I'll hold off on my annual ritual of republishing all those photos, in case Adobe wants to look at my catalog.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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I'm pretty about one cause of this issue:  When Adobe adds or changes the representation of develop settings in a new version of LR and a user installs the new version, the catalog entries for the users' photos aren't immediately updated with the new representation.  Rather, they're updated incrementally as LR re-renders the photos, such as when the user does a 100% zoom, invokes Library > Previews > Build 1:1 Previews, or exports the photos. 

 

When LR eventually does update a photo's representation, it notices that the new internal settings aren't the same as the old, and it marks the photo as Modified To Re-Publish.

 

This happened in LR 2015.6 when new settings were added for the Guided Upright Tool:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-bugs/p-photos-incorrectly-considered-as-quot-change...

 

I examined some of the photos in my current catalog that are getting incorrectly marked as Modified, and for most, the only change in the representation of develop settings was converting to the new representation of masks in LR 11.

 

If my educated guess about the cause of the bug is correct, then the fix is to change the incremental-update code to avoid triggering the "photo modified" condition.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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New Here ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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Then why would it happen repeatedly to the same photos, especially those that are never touched? Something else is going on, at least in my situation.

Regards,

Dana

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LEGEND ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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"Then why would it happen repeatedly to the same photos, especially those that are never touched?"

 

It may be that the buggy code doing the incremental update is creating invalid catalog entries for these photos that is confusing the Mark As Up-To-Date. That's the nature of bugs -- by definition, they cause the program to behave in ways we don't expect.

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Explorer ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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In reading thorugh many of these replies, some points I can "kind" of agree with (partially), BUT some important fact remain.

This has been a problem for years (since 2016 from some of the postings I see - we are now in 2022) - so it is not anything new - may worse as time grows?

This does NOT ONLY affect old collections, it affecrts new photos collections as well

It seems to be RAMDON in how it selects photos.  Unless you make hundreds of screen shots each time you see this issue, including the changes while updating, it is hard to monitor.

When updating, it will add photos and delete photos in spurts.... when they were not even listed in the origianl group "needing updates" - I included screen shots of this in the second comment of the original post.

Using the "Mark as up-to-date" only saves a person having to "re-puiblish" (i.e. time), but does NOTHIN permanent to the photo that keeps it from getting marked as NOT needing 're-publishing".

One only needs to open LRC to find this issues - that is the ONLY step needed to replicate (if you have the issue).   As an example, I opened LRC yestersay (no changes to anything - just looking) and had to use "Mark as Up-To-Date" to clean up some foldes.  EVERYTHING was as is shoudl be - no updates needed.   Later that afternoon I went back to LRC and checked the folder that I had corrected earlier in the day - and GUES WHAT - photos needed re-publishing when nothing has been done to change anything other than open the Pulishing folder and look.  See screen shot attached.

It seems "random" is selection.   Get new photos that have not displayed in group needing replushing and old ones that have been "re-published".   Also seems to be true for photos that have been "Mark as Up-To-Date".

Bottom line - getting to be a very frustrating issue if you keep on experiecing this issue - especially after a long, long period,.  If one keeps updating then a great consumer of time.

If one does nothing.... then what are the consequences?

If one updates, are changes actually being made?  If so, then why do same images need updating again later?

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LEGEND ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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There could well be multiple specific causes, e.g. the LR 2015 addition of the Guided Upright Tool, the LR 11 new masking, and perhaps other unknown causes.

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Explorer ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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Another comment today on this issue.   I when I checked everything today, I made sure all was marked as "Published" using the "Mark as up-to-date" option.  

This evening when I opened LRC and checked on somthing I am working on (not working on images in LRC), I had numerours folders (again) that had images marked as needing to be published.  I used the "Mark as up-to-date" option to get everything to display as Publised - as should have been.  

HOWEVER - and this may have some significance.... I have a folder that is made up of images from other folders (which are all sub-folders to the same group (SEE ATTACHED IMAGE).   I CANNOT use the "Mark as up-to-date" option on any folders in this folder - THIS MAY BE normal - I don't know at this time.  All the other primary folders in this grouping to include these "Recap" folders get their copies of the images in the "Publish Services" FROM the source folder.   This particular sub-folder got all the images from the "Publish Services" folder (i.e. a copy. not the original).  

I forst tried to use "Mark as up-to-date" and it did not work, so I then did each sub-folder.  After dooing that and getting all back as should be (Published), the "Recap" folder still had all the images needing to be re-published - and YES, I still could not use the "Mark as up-to-date" option.  I assume this is because they are "copies", but when all alse was updated, they should have reflected that.... SEE ATTACHED IMAGE

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New Here ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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With a known bug as old as this, it's remarkable that Adobe hasn't built some sort of debugging tool that affected users can install that would identify exactly what the heck is going on and then just fix it.

Regards,

Dana

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LEGEND ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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"With a known bug as old as this, it's remarkable that Adobe hasn't built some sort of debugging tool that affected users can install that would identify exactly what the heck is going on and then just fix it."

 

See here for the last comment I've found here from Adobe about this (2017):

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-bugs/p-photos-incorrectly-considered-as-quot-change...

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New Here ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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That just links to more descriptions of the issue and the embedded link for a fix links back to itself. If it's the read metadata and copy metadata fix, that did nothing for me anyway.

Regards,

Dana

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LEGEND ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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"That just links to more descriptions of the issue"

 

It links to the last comment from Adobe about the 2015.6 bug:

 

"As usual, you, our users, have done a fantastic job of addressing this issue and bringing it to our attention.  Due to it’s obscure nature and that a solid workaround has been discovered we will not be expending any time or resources to fix it. It will only affect those users who are planning to migrate from a version <6.6 to a version >= 6.6 so that number is extremely small."

 

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Explorer ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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CORRECTION TO MY ABOVE COMMENT (ONE WITH SINGLE SCREEN SHOT - REFERECING THE IMAGES BEING COPIED FROM PUBLISH SERVICES RATHER THAN SOURCE FOLDER).

This comment was wrong on my part as I made a SEVER mistake.   Going throught these so much, for some reason I thought I had already published this folder, but in reality I HAD NOT published, so the status was INDEED CORRECT - all the images NEEDED to be Published - as they had not been published.  MY MISTAKE.

The folder (Recap photo folder as seen in the screen shot) has been Published, so now I will wait and see if I get the error when random images start showing up to be "Re-Puplished"

Since the images had NOT been Published - the "Mark as up-to-date" WOULD INDEED NOT WORK since the images had NOT been published - this whole comment of this particular instance was in error on my part.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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I will add my concern about this bug, as it has happened to me.

 

The last time it happened was when the catalog was upgraded from the Lightroom Classic version 10 catalog to the Lightroom Classic version 11 catalog. Suddenly, virtually every publish service I had showed all photos "Modified Photos to Re-Publish" when in fact none of the photos had been modified in any way (edits or metadata), the photos in some of these publish services had not been touched for years.

 

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New Here ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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Assuming the system is actually making some sort of random change to the file which sets the flag, is there any way to lock the photos in a collection so that they can't be changed without unlocking?

Regards,

Dana

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LEGEND ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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"Assuming the system is actually making some sort of random change to the file which sets the flag, is there any way to lock the photos in a collection so that they can't be changed without unlocking?"

 

My understanding of the problem based on years of experience with LR, writing plugins, and dealing with this class of bugs: LR has a background task that checks for photos in published collections that might have changed since they were last published. The task has a comparison function that compares the current develop settings with the settings at the time the photo was published (it probably compares hashes).  The comparison function gets confused by new releases of LR that add new develop settings (e.g. Guided Upright Transform in 2015.6, masking in 11.0). 

 

This process appears "random" for two reasons:

 

- We don't know the heuristics the background task uses for scheduling its checks.

- Photos get updated incrementally to the new internal representations of develop settings as they are re-rendered, e.g. to build previews for Library (e.g. 100% zooming) or for exporting or sometimes just for scrolling through Grid view thumbnails, if the preview cache has lost their previews for some reason.

 

With the 2015.6 instance, you could permanently clear the "edited" flag by doing Save Metadata To File, Read Metadata From File, Mark As Up-To-Date.  But in 11.1, that only temporarily clears the edited flag. Apparently, the background process eventually gets around to rechecking the photo again and still thinks the develop settings have changed.

 

I wrote a plugin script that invoked publishedPhoto:setEditedFlag (false), on the hypothesis that perhaps there was a problem at the user-interface level with the Mark As Up-To-Date command.  But that script had the same problem -- the photos would get moved to Published and then sometime after get moved back to Modified.

 

So as of now, the only known way to permanently mark these photos as Published is to actually publish them.  (That's what I've been doing with about 7K photos about once a year, having given up after LR 2015.6 on getting Adobe to fix the bug.)

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