Photoshop Edits not being added to Collection

[KellyMyersPhoto]

I've got an issue that just popped up as of this new year. When I send an image out to PS and then back into LR, the image isn't automatically added to the collection, as it always has been before. It shows up during that session, but if I leave LR and come back it will be gone. I tought that the tiff weren't being recognized, but after some troubleshooting I figured out where the issue lies. 

So any ideas why it would just start this behaviour?

Thanks

[DdeGannes]

You should be aware that in LR Classic, Collections do not contain copies of the original photo files it's just info stored in the Catalog file. The original files are in the folders on your computer system and you can have them included in multiple Collections.

If you select a image in a particular Collection and use the edit in function to send to Photoshop for further editing the resultant tiff/psd file that is created will be saved in the folder structure alongside the Original file and should be also available in the Collection.

However if you selected the Original file in the folder structure and used the edit in function to send the file to PS the resulting tiff/psd will save alongside the Original file and not in the Collection.

[KellyMyersPhoto]

Understood, but I'm always working inside the collection, not the folders.

[Just Shoot Me]

I think you have something confused.

Collections are just LISTS of image file names. There are no images in a collection. This list of file names is the same as if you sat at a table and made a list of albums, CDs and DVDs you own. None of those albums, CDs or DVDs are physically in that list.

For any image file name to be in a collection you the user must place it there. you can do that during the import process using the check box next to Add to Collection and then selecting the collection name you want to add those images to. But all that does is add the File Name to that collection LIST.

The actual physical image files are placed, Copied, to a Folder on the drive you have slected in the Destination section of the import dialog window.

So when you say you always work in a collection and not in folders that is a misnomer. Even though you have a collection selected and you are sending one of thos file to PS it returns back to the original folder and unless you add that new file to that collection it will not appear.

Also Collections are not the same as Virtual Copies. Collections are just Lists of image file names. Edits done to files LISTED in a Collection show up on the Original File. Edits done to a Virtual Copy do Not show on the original file. That is the point of VCs, to have 2 or more copies of the filename that 2 or more different edits can be done on that one file.

[richardplondon]

The OP's not confused.

Normal expected LR behaviour is that when you create a new external edit version while working in the context of a folder based view, this new image version will inherit none of the starting image's Collection memberships.

But when created in the context of a Collection view, it would normally inherit membership in just that particular Collection (but no other Collections). For some reason that is not happening properly for the OP. Perhaps resetting LR preferences may help, and/or an integrity check of the Catalog.

This inheritance feature does not apply with Smart Collections - where a new image version will either appear or not appear, solely depending on the inclusion criteria (rules) each SC employs.

[Tony_See]

Kelly

As DdeGannes outlined previously, Collections use (I suppose) a version of the original image in the Catalog, making it similar to a virtual copy.

Your issue seems to be what happens after you leave LR (I'm assuming this means when you Quit LR and then Restart LR.)

It sounds like you also have the LR Pref set "Stack with Original" set in the External Editing tab.

You seem happy also from your post that the TIF format IS being added to the Catalog satisfactorily as you state "I have figured out where the issue lies"

Hope its sorted somewhat . . .

[richardplondon]

Just in case of any confusion, Collections are IMO not similar to a virtual copy.

Each new virtual copy can be separately edited and managed: having its own set of adjustments, and its own organisational metadatasuch as keywords - hence, behaving independently of other virtual copies, and independently of the master copy relating to that same source file. Saved snapshots and the physical management of the file (such as renaming or moving to another folder) do apply across these all together, but in other respects they are distinct.

Collection memberships are attributes applied to each image thumbnail, regardless whether master or virtual, so that each one knows which Collections it currently belongs to.

It's more like assigning a particular keyword to one or another image thumbnail, whereby when you ad-hoc filter the entire Catalog to display only images which have got that keyword, it will start showing up in that search. But unlike an on-the-fly search, with a Collection you can maintain a custom image order, you can see this membership directly on the image, and you can conveniently reference and return to that under a persisting name.

But the general edits and keywords etc of each image version refer to the same thing, regardless of whether this thumbnail is being viewed within its folder context, or in the context of one or another Collection.

[SMFT1979]

This is still an inherent problem.  Has there been a solution yet aside from loading your entire catalog and manually moving the new file into the correct collection?

In my case I will have 2 files in a collection that I want to process in the same manner, however, one will be used as a head/eye donor for another photo also in the collection.  I take both into photoshop from inside of the collection and place the head/eyes from one photo onto the other and save the file as a tiff.  This workflow had previously placed the new tiff file right next to or between the two photos that I brought into photoshop.  This no longer is the case.  I must manually find the photo in my catalog and drag it into the proper collection now.  This is very annoying.

[Rob_Cullen]

Being curious- I tried (Windows-10 Lr-Classic v10.3)

1) Two images in a Standard Collection -from different FOLDERS!

2) Select the two images and [Edit in Ps as Layers]

3) Edit in Ps and [Save] the TIFF from Ps

The 'combined' TIFF appears back with the two images in the Standard Collection!

However the new TIFF only exists in one Folder with one of the original images.

I also tried the simpler [Edit-In] that opens two documents in Ps, combine them in Ps, then [Save] the Tiff.

My result is the same -the new TIF in the Collection, and only in one folder with the 'first' file in the Collection.

All my experience suggests exactly the opposite from what you are seeing!

loading your entire catalog and manually moving the new file into the correct collection?

I have no idea what you mean by this statement!! "loading your entire catalog" ??? Please explain.

[SMFT1979]

loading your entire catalog and manually moving the new file into the correct collection?  

Probably would have been better stated as going to the catalog pane and selecting all photographs to view all the photographs in a catalog.

[JohanElzenga]

---

@SMFT1979 wrote:

This is still an inherent problem.  Has there been a solution yet aside from loading your entire catalog and manually moving the new file into the correct collection?

In my case I will have 2 files in a collection that I want to process in the same manner, however, one will be used as a head/eye donor for another photo also in the collection.  I take both into photoshop from inside of the collection and place the head/eyes from one photo onto the other and save the file as a tiff.  This workflow had previously placed the new tiff file right next to or between the two photos that I brought into photoshop.  This no longer is the case.  I must manually find the photo in my catalog and drag it into the proper collection now.  This is very annoying.

---

This is indeed not normal and not something I can reproduce. Have you tried resetting the preferences? 

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-reset-lightrooms-preferences/

[JP Hess]

I'm using Lightroom Classic 10.3, Windows 10 Home Premium. I just sent an image from LrC to Photoshop, from a collection and performed some editing and saved it. The resulting tiff image was added to the collection when Photoshop closed. Everything worked automatically as expected.

[michael53397279]

Good test, this is what is not working on my Mac Studio M2 Ventura 13.4 with LrC 13.2. This workflow has worked for years and now it doesn't for some reason.

[IainCompton]

This has been vexing me for a while too. I had exactly the same issue as the OP. A copy of a file created via the 'Edit in external editor' dialogue was not automatically added to the same collection as the original. For the sake of anyone Googling this same issue, here is the answer (as alluded to by RichardPLondon in another reply to this message.

This issue manifests when you have just imported images. The usual flow for many users will be:

1. Import images with the import dialogue in the Library pane
2. Open the Develop pane to start editing.

However, note that when you do this, you are not viewing the collection that you specified during import, you are in the Previous Import view - which is apparently not a collection view. So, when you create a new copy to send to an external editor, it does not inherit the collection membership. To make sure that copies are added to the collection by default, you must navigate down the collections list in the left of the pane and select the collection that you imported the images into. Then, any copies sent to external editors will automatically inherit that collection membership.

I appreciate that this is not a bug and is probably intended behaviour, but I'd argue that it's not intuitive and I'd like to see an option in the send to external editor dialogue that you can tick or untick to toggle automatically adding it to the same collection as the original.

The issue is that working in 'previous import' lets you easily see which images from a collection are new. Whereas in collection view, if the collection happens to be very large or has a lot of very similar images, it may not be easy to identify the images that were just imported.

[DdeGannes]

At lainCompton, you stated "I appreciate that this is not a bug and is probably intended behaviour, but I'd argue that it's not intuitive and I'd like to see an option in the send to external editor dialogue that you can tick or untick to toggle automatically adding it to the same collection as the original."

Just some info to reflect on. When you import image files to Lightroom Classic they reside in a folder of your choice within your operating system and are displayed in the Folders section of the Library module.

At import you can also add those images to a Collection of your choice and they will be displayed in the Collection section of the Library module.

You can also add images to multiple Collections.

There are no actual image files or copies of the original image in the Collection, collections only contains data of the image location and edits applied.

If you select the original file in the Folder where it is located and use the edit in function to send to an external editor for further edits a new imsge files is created, when you save the edits, The new file will reside in the folder with the original file. That new image will not get assigned to any Collection.

If you select the image from a particular Collection and use the edit in function to make additional edits in another application,when you save the new file will be created and added to the folder alongside the original file and assigned to that particular collection. It will not be added to any other collection that the "ORIGINAL IMAGE" may be assigned.

Hope this clarifies the expected process.

[IainCompton]

I'm aware of all of that. I even said it myself... The actual on-disk location of the files isn't the issue. I know that the files are actually located in the folder specified during import, and that collections are metadata constructs that exist outside of any actual file structure. It doesn't change the fact that, for many users, the expectation is that copies made after an import where a collection was specified should inherit that collection membership (otherwise this thread wouldn't exist).

Note also that although it is possible to add images to multiple collections, it isn't possible to do so on import (as far as I could see from a brief experiment just now). Adding an imported image to a second or subsequent collection would happen post-import and would require selecting a different collection to make it the target collection for adding new images to, at which point the user woudl be in the collection view and not the recent imports view.

[richardplondon]

Are you asking for each image to remember indefinitely, which particular collection had been originally specified at time of its own import (if any, and assuming still surviving), and then to later have that same membership be automatically and silently assigned to any new derived copy also - regardless of the reasons for making this copy? Same thing for virtual copies?

AFAICT this presumes a very particular purpose for Collections made at import, whereby it would be desirable  to see all later derived image versions in there as well. Some may share in that thinking... others will have quite different (equally valid) ideas on how they want to use Collections.

As I see it, standard Collections are intentional: image versions are not silently added (nor removed) behind one's back, unrequested. That sort of behaviour, is what Smart Collections are for.

The provided way to indicate that some new edit version, or virtual copy, belongs within a standard Collection is: to be viewing this Collection at the time of making. It is very natural IMO for LrC to award this same collection membership at that moment. You can then immediately see what you have just made, and within the right selective context.

[IainCompton]

It isn't necessary to retain that information indefinitely, just to check which membership(s) exist when the new file is created. I don't disagree with your note about standard collections indicating intent, but it doesn't seem so unreasonable to me that a new version of a file should inherit the same collection membership as the original - after all it inherits all of the other Lr metadata. If I'm editing a file my expectation is that new file created in the process of that will be identical in every way to the original save for the parts that I specifically edited to be different. If I want multiple unrelated versions of a file, that's what virtual copies are for.

[DdeGannes]

Quote, " It doesn't change the fact that, for many users, the expectation is that copies made after an import where a collection was specified should inherit that collection membership (otherwise this thread wouldn't exist)."

I do not understand your problem, when you use the the "edit in PS option" that will of necessity create a new image file alongside the original file which is in itself a "New" image file. If you also require that new file to be also included in a particular Collection all that is required is to select the image in the Collection and then use the "Edit in PS" option and the image will be included in the Collection.

However if you feel strongly about this issue post a New Feature request in the idea section of the forum.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/how-do-i-write-a-feature-request/idi-p/123863...

[JohanElzenga]

However, note that when you do this, you are not viewing the collection that you specified during import, you are in the Previous Import view - which is apparently not a collection view.

That is a choice you have in the preferences. You can check the option that Lightroom Classic should switch to the 'Previous Import' collection on import, or you can turn this off so Lightroom stays were it was when the import started. I turned it off a long time ago.

[Savvy Leigh]

Oh my goodness thank you so much. This is exactly what was happening to me and I could not find an answer ANYWHERE! Thank you!!

[michael53397279]

Lightroom 13.2 has new preference menu.

I unchecked this and now my edits get assigned the catalog of the original.

Preferences -> External Editing -> stack with original

My workflow is to import the images (they go in without a catalog) set the target catalog and then select the imported images and move to target catalog. So I think the original is "no catalog" since that is how I imported it. 

[JohanElzenga]

Sounds like you confuse 'collections' and 'catalogs'. Lightroom Classic has one single catalog.

[michael53397279]

You are correct, I set the target collection etc. Just swap catalog for collection in my post.