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What are the differences between camera raw and lightroom

New Here ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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Hello there 

 

I have my complete photo collection managed in lightroom classic. I have converted all my canon cr2 raw files to dng using the Adobe Tool. After that I set up lightroom. I also use the official smugmug plugin for publishing as a form of backup. 

 

Now my question. After years of just saving my pictures to my hard disk I know have the goal to sort them out and edit each acceptable photo. I do this with the dng files and overwrite the jpg of my camera after that. 

 

But now I am not sure what is the best way to do this. Should I open the dngs from my hard drive into Photoshop (Camera Raw), edit them and save them after that (this has the negative side effect that some dngs show black parts on windows explorer after saving) or should I use the develop part of lightroom classic (if I understand correctly there is no way of saving like in Photoshop but I have to export them?)?

 

Are there any differences, advantages or do advantages? 

 

I tried both methods and on both I get a notification on some (why not all?) photos that they were edited outside of lightroom and if I want to import the settings from my hard drive. I could understand this notification if I edited them in Photoshop because it is an other programm, but why does this also happens after using the develop Part of lightroom classic after the export and the folder sync? 

 

I know, much to read but I hope someone could help me 

 

Thanks in advance 

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LEGEND ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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There is no difference between ACR and Lightroom Classic in terms on developing photos. They use the exact same underlying engine, and you get the exact same results.

 

Naturally, Photoshop's editor has additional editing tools not in ACR or Lightroom Classic. Lightroom Classic has organizing tools not available in Photoshop or Bridge.

 

I tried both methods and on both I get a notification on some (why not all?) photos that they were edited outside of lightroom and if I want to import the settings from my hard drive. I could understand this notification if I edited them in Photoshop because it is an other programm, but why does this also happens after using the develop Part of lightroom classic after the export and the folder sync?

 

Lightroom Classic does not know what you do in ACR. These are separate programs that do not automatically communicate with each other. So if you are going to use ACR instead of Lightroom Classic to edit the photos (even though the underlying engine is the same) you have to notify Lightroom Classic that the edits have changed.

 

In my opinion, a better option is to do as much editing and organizing as possible in Lightroom Classic. Then use Photoshop if you need to use the additional editing tools there.

 

I see really little benefit in using both ACR and Lightroom Classic, but I do see extra work. Extra work but no benefit? I don't like the sound of that.

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New Here ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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Thanks for you answer. The problem with the notifications also appeared as I edited some dngs in lightroom classic. Do you have an idea why? And why this notifications only appear on some files and not on every (I edited really every with nearly the same edits). 

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New Here ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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And if this notification comes after editing in lightroom classic directly, do I have to choose "Import settings from hard drive" or the other "add settings to catalog or something like that"..? 

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LEGEND ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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I can't explain why some photos get a "notification" while others do not, as I never edit in ACR, and I recommend you don't either, and then the problem goes away.

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New Here ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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Thanks for your help. That is really useful for my next steps. But maybe you can read my replies again. This notification do also appear if I edit in lightroom classic (develop area). And I dont understand why, because its not an external tool and I dont know which option of the notification I should use (settings from hard drive or from the catalog)? 

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LEGEND ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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If you want the edits that you did in ACR, you read the settings into Lightroom Classic from the hard drive. If you want the edits that you did in Lightroom Classic and not the edits you did in ACR, you write the Lightroom Classic settings to the hard drive.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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It's likely you have the option "Automatically write to xmp" selected in the LrC preferences. This option allows Lightroom to add the edits that you perform to the DNG file header and will be used by ACR in the event you access the file directly from Photoshop. If you make changes there outside of Lightroom the editing info will change in the DNG and that is why you get a "notification" saying there has been a change made by another application. Lightroom only writes to xmp it does not read automatically from the file.

The notification gives you the option to choose which edits should prevail, the info in Lightroom or the info in the file. If you accept the info from the file it will change the edits you did in Lightroom.

 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.6, LrC 10.4, Lr 4.4, Ps 22.5,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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New Here ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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  • Thanks for the information. So if I edit the dng in Photoshop and get the notification I have to choose load from file and when I edit the dng in lrc and get the notification I have to choose lightroom, correct? Should I unmark the "automatically write to xmp" Option? And do have an idea why not every edited photo gets this "notification"? 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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You are the only one who will know why there is a mismatch and what info should prevail.

I keep my workflow KISS "keep it simple sweet" so I do not have the Automatically write to XMP selected.

I would normally use the "edit in Photoshop" to send images for further editing if needed.

It is also possible to work with raw DNG files directly in Photoshop / Camera Raw and that info will remain with the file, so you have to separate renditions. 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.6, LrC 10.4, Lr 4.4, Ps 22.5,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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New Here ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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I made a test now and edited a whole subfolder with 20 dngs in it directly in LrC. While in the develop window, it noticed that the little picture which I was editing gets this little arrow showing down. Hovering with the cursor over it, it says "metadata needs to be updated". So I clicked on this arrow every time I was finished with an edit.

 

So then I did the export to jpg. The setting herefore is, same folder, add to catalog, jpg in full size and overwrite without asking. After that, every jpg became a notification. Some get a "metadata conflict" sign, other an "metadata were changed in an external programm". So this is the part I dont get. 

 

Maybe the problem is, that I overwrite the original jpgs and lightroom thinks it is the same picture but has other metadata?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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Quote "I made a test now and edited a whole subfolder with 20 dngs in it directly in LrC."

Did you import those 20 DNG files into the Lightroom Catalog to do the test?

If so, on initial import Lightroom will read data from the file. 

However I am unable to check what you are seeing with my KISS workflow. Did you do edits in Camera Raw before the import?

 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.6, LrC 10.4, Lr 4.4, Ps 22.5,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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New Here ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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No, I didn't add them. My lightroom catalog is already completly filled with all my photos (dng and jpgs as seperate images in their same subfolder). To add another issue, the smugmug plugin just detected half of the edited photos and marked them to be republished, not all. I checked at the image data info on smugmug, some are of today as modified, some months ago. 

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LEGEND ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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If you overwrite a JPG which is in the catalog, then yes, Lightroom Classic gets confused. Although the overwrite option is available, I'd recommend that you don't use it in conjunction with "add to catalog". Usually, this isn't necessary.

 

Agreeing with @DdeGannes , KISS is the way to go, and you have a rather complicated way of handling photos which leads to confusion and extra steps.

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New Here ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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Thank you for your time and goodwill of helping me. I am a total noob in using lightroom. I watched pavel kaplun videos for lightroom to get into it. But this is now completly new and I just dont understand it. Later, after your help, I will maybe play the picard gif for myself. 

 

So maybe you can give me an advice. My lightroom catalog has my photo folder managed with many sub and subsub folders. In there are the dng as well as the jpgs. I have set up the official smugmug plugin, just like my photo folder (folders and sub folders), adding just the jpgs into them. Now I want to edit all acceptable dngs and replace the camera jpgs with the edited ones. What would be the KISS way for that? 

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LEGEND ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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Maybe I don't have the same goals as you do, but I do not keep both RAW and JPG of the same image. I don't even have the camera create the JPG, I think this is a part of where you are not KISS. It is just extra work and extra confusion when you have both RAW and JPG of the same image. The Smugmug plugin ought to be able to export your RAWs as JPGs and then upload those JPGs to Smugmug and then delete the JPG since it is no longer needed.

 

In fact, I never keep exported JPGs for the same reason, they are needed for a specific purpose (e-mail, print, upload to a website) and after that they can be deleted, so there's no point in keeping them in my LR catalog. So most KISS advice you will get is to not store JPGs if you have the raw, except for temporary use.

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New Here ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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Ok, thanks again. I did another test, in which I overwrote the jpgs but disabled "add to catalog". That doesnt worked well. So I did another test with your advice and deleted all jpgs of the subfolder. They were also deleted at the smugmug plugin (since I want to edit all photos, thats what happens anyway). I edited them in LrC, saved my edits in the metadata (little picture at the bottom, click on the arrow) and then exported as jpg and that worked flawless. No conflicts, no nothing, they were just there with all changes, tags and geo locations. Then I put them back to smugmug and republished them. I think this is the way to go for me. 

 

Thank you both for your help, advice and pation 😅👍

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 21, 2021 Feb 21, 2021

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Maybe the article at the link below would assist.

http://www.johnshawphoto.com/lightroom-acr-difference/

 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.6, LrC 10.4, Lr 4.4, Ps 22.5,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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