P: Respect Hierarchical Folders of Presets

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

5 years ago, poster Sean Phillips first suggested this idea. Adobe has officially marked it as "implemented" - however, it is not implemented. Preset subfolders are scanned by LR, however, directory structure is not respected beyond the first level.

This makes preset management kludgy and inefficient. Please correct this by simply allowing the LR preset hierarchy to reflect the subfolder structure in the LR develop preset folder tree.

[Sean Phillips]

Yes, this nails it perfectly.

[Sean Phillips]

I basically only ever use presets in Develop,  so that's where this is most important to me. However in order to make the program consistent for users I can't imagine why you would develop this in one place and not everywhere else. To do differently (as it is now) only makes the program more confusing.

Having at least 3 but no more than 5 levels of hierarchy would be useful. Mine are organized both in folders based on the source from which they came, which often includes at least one more sub level to describe the type of preset (eg. B&W, Color, Psychadelic, etc.). I currently also have another level that I created a few years ago when older presets didn't work properly with the newest process version (or reverted the image back to the previous process version when they were applied). Although I rarely use them I still have some of those older presets and still see a need for that level of hierarchy...

As for performance cost, obviously I'm not interested in taking any hit in that regard if it's possible to avoid it. LR is already, unfortunately, a sluggish pig most of the time. However I honestly believe that is a different conversation. I truly believe that using good coding practices across the platform (which includes reusing identical code wherever possible) will help that more than hurt it. Admittedly I am not an active developer and I stand to be corrected in that regard.

But my point is still valid that Adobe need to address the performance of the program across the board. I can access my images in Photo Mechanic and ON1 Photo RAW almost instantly while when accessing the same images in LR sometimes takes as long as 10 minutes to even see anything other than a spinning beachball. Adding (or not adding) hierarchy levels to my presets folders will not change that...

[msc-photoAndWeb]

Thank you Rikk Flohr for replying to this request. Your explanation is helpful in understanding the issue from your perspective. For me, the most important area is for the (1.) Develop Module. That's the end result I'd like to see accomplished. For the others (2. - 5.) that you listed, I'm very willing to take some performance hit to accomplish number 1. In fact, some of these others you list will help make the develop module preset organization easier to accomplish, especially in the (5.) import panel. I believe it will help our workflow in all 5 areas (net gain in efficiency).

How many levels of hierarchy are desired?  3

How many are necessary?  3

How many will be detrimental to the average user?  no limit, make it the user's choice

Thanks for considering this.
Marty Cohen

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Basically anytime the program accesses any presets folder hierarchy on disk it should present that hierarchy exactly as it is just like Finder or File Explorer . Flattening it is user unfriendly, causes a performance hit and slows workflow.
If I have to prioritise it would be #1 first, then #5 and after that, I don't care (I had to spend 10 mins finding them because I never use them). The argument that a hierarchy causes a performance hit on the Navigator makes no sense to me and I am speaking as a programmer for over 30 years. Whether you are mousing down a long flat list causing the Navigator to update or a hierarchy is the same. Perhaps you are using a hover time of 0? Simply allow a configuration setting so I can set a hover time that suits my style.

As to how many, since the end user can organise their own or acquired presets then it is up to each user to decide how deep. The program should present that structure in the UI with the same limits as the platform file managers which I believe is 256 characters for each but if not that might be a reasonable limit (256 character path  and file name)

As to the Adobe built in presets, use common sense. The existing structure needs to be at least 1 deeper so that I have Lightroom then a choice between B&W and Color then what you have now but reserve 1 deeper just in case.That would be 3 levels but allow 4 or 5 for future. If they use a standard off the shelf HD folder reader object then this is a moot point other than to specify a high limit during object creation and I would vote for 5 OR make it a Prefs setting would be even better.

None of this makes me want to leave LR and PS but the long delay in implementing a standard Windows and Apple construct as you have in the Folders section and elsewhere creates unnecessary tension between us.

Thanks for getting involved Rikk.

[Kelv64]

I am not a professional in any of these matters but the whole thread of this thread has been about the develope  Module  and what is best to help Professionals and other users alike when using that Module, Adobe Professionals surely have to be the final arbitrator of what is best for everyone, If you can give us what we want and still meet the needs of the general community and your own organisation then either go ahead and do it or just say it cannot be done, no matter what is said here you will in any case do what makes the best business sense.
  

[Tobias Schneider]

As for not being forced to use a feature, so what. It's still development time used and not available for features one does value.

Riiight. Debate settled, folks. If John doesn't want a feature, Adobe shouldn't waste any time implementing it (no matter how many other users might want it) because all their resources need to be focused on the ones he values.

Glad we cleared that up.

[Tobias Schneider]

Thank you for an official answer 🙂

As for your questions:

"Have you viewed all five of the places where this will impact UI and are comfortable with the impact on workflow in those areas - whether you use a particular area or not?"

Of course performance impact is never a good thing - I do believe however it is definitely well worth it if the impact is only on preset preview and application. If there is a significant delay every time when switching to the Develop module, that would be a matter for concern (but also a sign of seriously bad programming ^^).

"Specifically to all who have posted on this thread - which area (1-5) are you asking about?"

I mainly just care about the 1 - Develop module. The functionality would of course also be very nice on 2, 3 and 5, though I personally don't use these often enough to matter (and if I do, I can currently use a single folder for favorite import presets). As for 4 - ask me again when Adobe and Pentax get their act together and I can actually shoot tethered 😉

"How many levels of hierarchy are desired?"

Obviously, two at a minimum so we can have preset groups with subgroups. Three would be a lot nicer, of course, but I could live with two if that's significantly easier to implement. Four or more already seems a bit like overkill to me personally.

"How many are necessary?"

See above - even two levels would already help a lot compared to the current situation.

"How many will be detrimental to the average user?"

That's a non-issue IMHO because even if you were to offer fifty levels of hierarchy, nobody would be forced to use them. But for sanity's sake, I'd draw the limit at five.

Of course, a Filter / Search box as suggested by John would also be a very welcome addition. But if I had to choose between those two, I'd prefer a hierarchy because it's easier to browse a well organized preset library than wracking my brain for the name of a preset I forgot.

As for this:

"Preset organization needs to be consistent across the application"

Just out of curiosity let me ask why is this? Is this a necessity because all those areas using presets use the same code or is this a dictum from your UI/UX team?

[Geoff the kiwi]

Please keep your comments on topic not person....

[msc-photoAndWeb]

Thank you, beautifully said! We must keep the momentum going on this. We're closer now than at any time in the past as we at least have someone's attention at Adobe. Thank you Rikk Flohr for taking us seriously.

[YetAnotherLars]

1. Develop Module - Preset panel (Mandatory)
2. Library Module - Quick Develop panel (Yes - please)
3. Auto Import>Auto Import Settings... (Yes - please)
4. Tether Capture Tool Bar (Yes - please)
5. Import dialog - Apply During Import panel (Yes - please)

How many levels of hierarchy are desired? 4
How many are necessary? 2
How many will be detrimental to the average user? > 5

And in local ajustments (filter effects) - minimum 2 levels!

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Lars got it right on the money. Adding a filter/search to this would be, IMHO, perfect.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I have a lot of presets and when it comes to organisation Lightroom is not my friend. Surely the organisation of presets should be a priority for the application/program. Yes folders of presets are good but when you buy collections and they are in 15/20 different types it would be nice to have your main folder (preset creator) then within that folder for example folders grunge, vintage, etc etc.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

So glad I have found this but really surprised there are so few votes.
Please, Adobe can something be done about making our time on your product more efficient. It would be greatly appreciated by many people.

[msc-photoAndWeb]

GREAT NEW WAY TO GIVE THIS FEEDBACK...  Adobe put up a survey asking users to tell them their top 3 issues with Lightroom performance. This is a good place to let them know about how much time we waste because Lightroom does not provide for hierarchical Develop Module Preset folders. Here's the link to the survey:  https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/LrDesktop_performance

[David Julian]

I second that! Having one folder deep organization reminds me of 3" floppy disc era computing. 
It would be great for Adobe to respond more often in it's LR iterations to how experienced photographers actually use Lightroom, and how deeper UX/Intuitive design can make it even more powerful workflow software.

[Kelv64]

The above thread it seems has been marked as resolved by an official comment that Hierarchical Folder presets  were implemented in Lightroom 4, even if they were, they are not currently in CC, which is why the thread is asking for them, but confusion abounds as commentators seem to think that Lightroom just do not care, is it possible to get some sort of official review/comment of this thread. ? thank you

[johnrellis]

For reference by future readers, see the posts starting with this one from Adobe employee Rikk Flohr: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-need-to-respect-subfolder-hierarchy...

[andyinv]

Another +1 for this. Just organised a heap of downloaded presets the way I wanted them, and LR crushed the structure. On top of that, it's not even showing quite a few of them. Bit annoying...

[Purplebutter]

I agree..... I’ve bought presets from many sellers..... sometimes 10 different packages from one seller. For example: I bought ten different preset packages from XYZ each with a different name, like wedding, baby blues, vintage, grunge, pretty purple, etc..... I’d like to make one folder that is by xyz snd the put all the sub folders under xyz. Nd close it up.... then there is abc company and the same issues.... I want one folder that says abc.... and then out all the different packaged presets (in there folders) under abc folder! I use about 5 companies I like to buy from so if I had them all closed, I’d only have 5 folders showing up...... the way it is now, I have probably 50 folders under my presets that I have to click on..... then search that folder.... for the actual one preset I want! It gets old scrolling!

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

what about thinking make a subfolder system to organize presets?

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Lightroom Classic CC 7.4 released earlier today and features more robust management of Profiles and Presets.  Here is some information regarding the new management tools: https://theblog.adobe.com/june-lightroom-cc-releases-preset-profile-synchronization/

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

We need to be able to:

1. Have multiple levels of nesting. 

2. A thumbnail view for presets so we can see the effect of each preset without having to hover over them.

3. Option to have the preset thumbnails bigger or maybe on the 2nd screen.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I have now stopped using presets altogether. The limited file structure makes organizing them in an accessible way impossible. PLEASE fix this problem!

[SeanMcCormack]

How Lightroom manages XMP presets is completely different and ignores the folder layout in favour of internal mapped structure via the 'Cluster' line inside the preset. 

[Sean Phillips]

But still annoyingly non-hierarchical.