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54

P:(Masking) Invert/Flip Mask Group

Explorer ,
Oct 28, 2021 Oct 28, 2021

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Description:

Selecting subject in the new Lightroom release is great...but no automatic tool is perfect. After creating a subject selection mask, I often Add or Subtract with a brush to clean it up (There is currently no "Refine edge" function, which would be awesome, by the way).  My problem is this--Now that I have the Subject selected, I duplicate the mask so I can select the background. But the Add/Remove brushes don't work properly and must be converted.

Proposed improvement:

Instead of duplicating the mask and going to each element to invert, convert to add, convert to subtract, I would like to see an option on the mask itself to "Flip" it. The Flip at the top level would invert the select subject mask, and convert the Add to Subtract, and convert the Subtract to Add. Then the mask would be a perfect inversion in one step. 

You would have to consider how it would behave with the other mask elements--I was only considering the select subject/Add/Subtract.

mask.png

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correct answers 2 Correct answers

Adobe Employee , Jun 14, 2022 Jun 14, 2022

Greetings,

 

Updates to the Adobe Photography Products were released on June 13. This feature request is now implemented. Thanks to all who participated in the is thread. 

 

If you do not see the update (Mac and Win) you can refresh your Creative Cloud App with the keyboard shortcut [Ctrl/Cmd]+[Alt/Opt]+[ R ]. 

Status Released

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Adobe Employee , Jan 06, 2022 Jan 06, 2022

Setting status to Planned

Status Planned

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LEGEND ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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Moderators, @Rikk Flohr: Photography, please merge this with this existing Idea:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-invert-flip-mask-group/idi-p/12480309 

 

It's already in the top FAQs for LR 11.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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Moderators, @Rikk Flohr: Photography, please merge this with this existing Idea:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-invert-flip-mask-group/idi-p/12480309 

 

It's already in the top FAQs for LR 11.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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Moderators, @Rikk Flohr: Photography, please merge this with this existing Idea:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-invert-flip-mask-group/idi-p/12480309 

 

It's already in the top FAQs for LR 11.

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Advocate ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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I thank you for adding the steps here with pictures... but I'm still in the dark on this whole subject, the "who what why when where and how" in actual use and seing what is being accomplished in actual working, I think, could only really be accomplished in a methodical and step by step video. I take it that none exists. I will try the steps you mention here Michael, but without having a clue what I am doing or why... You would honestly think this would be easier, like adding to a mask or erasing on a mask in Photoshop... Not the case in what we are working with now in Lightroom and I don't really know why. Thanks for doing this as maybe by messing with it some bells will go off and I will actually learn something.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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Its a super simple TWO step rule

 

1. Right-Click on the BOTTOM Mask Component and chose "Invert" from the menu"

Screen Shot 2021-11-04 at 3.15.30 PM.jpg

 

2. Right-Click on EACH of the Mask Components ABOVE the Bottom one.  You don't even have look at the icons to see if it was originally Added or Subtracted, just pick the second item on the menu.

 

If it was originally Added it will show this.  Pick "Convert to Subtract"

Screen Shot 2021-11-04 at 3.15.02 PM.jpg

 

If it was originally Subtracted it will show this.  Pick "Convert to Add"

Screen Shot 2021-11-04 at 3.15.16 PM.jpg

 

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Explorer ,
Nov 06, 2021 Nov 06, 2021

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It's a kind of weird but I didn't find any Adobe suggestion or tutorial about inverting a complex mask.
I figure out the solution you can find in the attached video (starting from minute 4:40) but I wonder if it's the right method (sorry but the video is only in Italian language but I hope you can get the method just looking the screen).
Can someone tell me if there is a shorter and most intuitive process to do the same?

If the method used is the right one, why we don't have a button to automate it?

Thanks in advance.

https://youtu.be/vDEJuSnyyww

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Explorer ,
Nov 06, 2021 Nov 06, 2021

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Sorry, just find there was an already open discussion on this subject. 

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Contributor ,
Nov 07, 2021 Nov 07, 2021

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Yes there are workarounds as mentioned above, but I too would appreciate an invert all option for multi adjusted masks.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 07, 2021 Nov 07, 2021

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Press the Upvote button in the original post if you didn't do that yet. No need to post "me too".

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga

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Advocate ,
Nov 08, 2021 Nov 08, 2021

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Thank You. I will try this.


Sent from my iPad

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LEGEND ,
Nov 08, 2021 Nov 08, 2021

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LEGEND ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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LEGEND ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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I released a new version of the Copy Settings plugin containing the Invert Mask command, which allows you to quickly invert an entire mask.

 

The plugin has a 30-day free trial, and I'm optimistic LR 11.1 (due in December) will include mask inversion built-in.

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 26, 2021 Nov 26, 2021

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One think that is missind in the Ai mask is first the possibility to invert all the componet at once second and more important the ability to add retouch to a specific part of the selected mask. would be a little bit like the new fuction in PS to assisgn a modification just to a layer.

for exemple:

I have a portrait of a person.

It is half in shadows and half in the sun. I proceed to selct the subject. I recover the shadows and I increse the exposure.

Now the lit part of the person is overexposed. To correct it I have right now two option in LR

1: I subtract with a brusch the X amount of the mask till I get the exposure right.

2: I intersect the subject mask with another mask thet correct the over exposed area.

There are Two main problems on these workflow:

in the first one by brusching away I will reduce also the other parameter i may have apply to the mask, like color temparature, clarity texture and so on. For the second when one interect with other masks it is apply to the whole photo for exemple if I apply a color or luminance mask it would select the same color or luminance troughout the photo and not just in the selected subject mask. This means that then I have to intersect or brusch away the parts outside the subject.

My Solution to that is that we could assign retouch mask beneth and inside theselction we already have.

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Engaged ,
Dec 10, 2021 Dec 10, 2021

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In a recent video post, a well-known, knowledgeable photographer and Photoshop/Lightroom Classic educator stated that Lightroom Classic 11 cannot Invert an entire Mask Group.

 

Although it is true that LrC 11 doesn't have an Invert function at the Group Mask level (yet), his claim that it cannot be done is incorrect. After I pointed this out on his blog and how to do it, he has refused to accept it.

 

Hopefully Adobe will add an Invert function for the Mask Group in a future release.

 

This topic has already been discussed at length on this forum in an Ideas post "Invert/Flip Mask Group", but for the benefit of the wider LrC, Lr (and ACR) community, here again is how to manually Invert an entire Mask Group in two simple steps:

 

1. Toggle the Invert state of the first (bottom) component mask;

2. For every other component mask above the first (bottom) component, toggle their Add/Subtract modes.

 

 

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LEGEND ,
Dec 10, 2021 Dec 10, 2021

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You can also use the Invert Mask command of the Copy Settings plugin. Hopefully Adobe will add Invert for masks soon, given how easy it is to implement and how many people have requested it.

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Advocate ,
Dec 11, 2021 Dec 11, 2021

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Bravo, Excellent help. Thank You drtonyb!

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Engaged ,
Dec 11, 2021 Dec 11, 2021

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For anyone wanting to understand the two steps I posted for Inverting a Mask Group, masks in LrC are analogous to Mathematical Sets and can be analysed using the algebra of set theory.

 

If the mention of mathematics and algebra is enough to terrify you, then you might want to stop reading now.

 

The relationships between LrC Mask operators and set operators are:

Add is equivalent to the set operation Union;
Subtract is the set operation Difference or Minus;
Intersect is the set operation Intersect;
Invert is the set operation Complement.

 

I will use the symbols:
+ for Add;
- for Subtract;
& for Intersect;
! for Invert

 

Let's say a Mask Group M has components A, B, C and D, where A is the first (bottom) Added mask. Furthermore, the Mask Group M is constructed by Add A, Subtract B, Add C then Intersect D. This can be written as

 

M = A - B + C & D

 

By now, most LrC users will be aware that Intersect is equivalent to, and is implemented in LrC, by Subtract Invert. So C & D = C - !D and our Mask Group is

 

M = A - B + C - !D

 

LrC users may not be aware that Subtract is also equivalent to Intersect Invert, so we also have

 

M = A & !B + C & D

 

To Invert M, i.e. !M, it is best to express M as I have above, just in terms of Adds, Intersects and Inverts. Now we have to work out the equivalent of the Inverted expression

 

!M = !( A & !B + C & D )

 

in terms of just Adds, Intersects and Inverts. An important rule known as De Morgan's rule is needed here and it states that for any two sets A and B:

 

!( A + B ) = !A & !B

and

!( A & B ) = !A + !B

 

Applying De Morgans rule, !M becomes

 

!M = !A + !( !B ) & !C + !D = !A + B & !C + !D

 

For LrC Masks, the final result needs to be expressed in terms of Adds, Subtracts and Inverts. Changing the Intersect back to a Subtract, B & !C = B - !( !C ) = B - C, so

 

!M = !A + B - C + !D

 

So you see, only the first mask is Inverted and for all the other masks, only their Add/Subtract operations are toggled.

 

If in the future, LrC gets an Intersect operator in addition to the Add and Subtract operators, then Inverting a Mask Group containing Intersect components requires a small addition to the steps I have given: any Intersect component is changed from Intersect to Add and its Invert state is toggled.

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Advocate ,
Dec 12, 2021 Dec 12, 2021

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Clean as a whistle! Adobe developers for Lightroom should be reading this whilst blinking their eyes IMHO. Very good and I expect to see a Invert Mask et. al. command in the next update to Lightroom. This is too good to let slide.

 

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Adobe Employee ,
Jan 06, 2022 Jan 06, 2022

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Setting status to Planned

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products
Status Planned

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 02, 2022 Feb 02, 2022

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Hello, 

I simply want to invert my adjustment layer. From what I can see this is a new function, which I suddenly and luckily need for the first time after the fact. 

But annoyingly I can only invert one brush at a time. Ever since the new adjustment brush system, which lets you select subject, that of course I try to use as much as possible since it 's great, you add and subtract changes in separate brushes. 

In my screenshot you see I cannot invert the entire "mask-group" at the same time. Therefore, invert is not working in this case, as inverting one brush at a time overwrites what the other invert did.

So... this must have a solution, right? can I not merge my brushes and then invert? 

Also.. while I am at it.. before you could simply hold shift or alt to add and subtract. This is also a very annoying new issue which is disrupting my workflow.. So if anyone answering my other more pressing issue knows this aswell, I will be very happy!

Thank you! 

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LEGEND ,
Feb 02, 2022 Feb 02, 2022

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"I simply want to invert my adjustment layer."

 

While waiting for Adobe to implement invert for entire masks (rather than mask components), see this post for a simple method for inverting an entire mask comprised of multiple mask components:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-masking-invert-flip-mask-group/idc-p/124909...

 

Or use the Copy Settings plugin's Invert Mask command.

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New Here ,
Feb 18, 2022 Feb 18, 2022

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oh my god... is there seriously not an answer for this yet? i thought i was crazy and just missing something because no way would they 'improve' this masking selection tool only to make it completely useless. the select subject AI is great, except when it misses part of the image that should or should not have been selected, which is no problem because i can clean up the selection with the brush tool..... oh wait, no i cant because the 'cleaned up' section with the brush tool made its own layer instead of simply adding or subtracting to the already selected subject mask. so... i cant do what i needed to do and this rendered the 'select subject' tool useless beccause if i want the correct area i now have to use the brush selection tool ONLY or else my mask is in pieces (layers) and for WHATEVER reason you cannot edit the layers together as a single mask. i literally want to rip my hair out,.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 18, 2022 Feb 18, 2022

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While waiting for Adobe to implement this very popular feature request, see here for two methods for inverting masks:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-masking-invert-flip-mask-group/idc-p/127244...

 

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Community Expert ,
Feb 18, 2022 Feb 18, 2022

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@leesalei , as you can see from the answer at the top of this topic, this was updated to "planned" by Adobe's team at the beginning of January. While we can't expect to see any kind of date commitment here in this forum, the fact that it is "planned" is a good indicator that we might see it soon.

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