Does Lightroom convert images to CMYK?

[Wilsall]

I need to convert images to CMYK to submit photos for an article. I know Photoshop will convert, but don't know which software. If Lightroom does not convert to CMYK, which would I need to get?

[web-weaver]

Lr does not convert to CMYK. In fact it doesn't even display CMYK profiles.

You can convert to CMYK in Photoshop.

But I think that the person who asked you to supply photos in CMYK does not really know what he / she is talking about.

CMYK is not a device independant color space. That means each device, each press has its own CMYK profile, and probably sub-profiles for the actual ink and the actual paper used.

Without knowing the exact CMYK profile for the press the magazine is printed on, your conversion can only be a generic CMYK profile (such as are available in Photoshop) that is not much worth.

Converting to CMYK is usually done by the pre-press person who knows the exact CMYK profile.

I deliver images constantly to publishers of magazines and not a single one has asked me to deliver images in CMYK.

I send them TIFFs with Adobe RGB 8-bit and they are happy with that.

[D Fosse]

Absolutely. A request for unspecified "CMYK" is a sure sign of an outdated process and people out of touch with modern color management. I wouldn't trust them for a second. Adobe RGB is the current industry standard because it allows prepress to easily repurpose the file if press conditions change.

Soft proofing is a different matter, but no point as long as they don't give you a specific profile.

[Print3Nanaimo]

Can you expand on this for me? I work in a digital print shop and I've always been told to request images in CMYK.

My understanding is that the printer we use uses a CMYK profile (S.W.O.P v2) so that's what I ask people to send me their files in.

How should I be handling the process? If I receive their files in RGB, how am I supposed to know if the colour is correct on their printout to how they intended it?

I always just ask for pdf 1xa's, is this outdated?

[web-weaver]

You have two options:

a) Either you supply the exact CMYK-profile to the people who send photos to you, so that they can install the profile on their computers and convert images to this profile.

This option works only for people who have Photoshop CSxx installed on their computers. People who have only Lr cannot convert to CMYK because Lr does not recognize any CMYK profile and does not work with it.

SWOP v2 is a generic profile, and I wonder if that is really the profile used by your printer - or if your printer uses a derivative of SWOP v2 that is specific to this printer.

b) Or you do the conversion. You cannot know "if the colour is correct on their printout to how they intended it" - but neither do you know this if they send you CMYK images.

You have to go with what you get.

[Print3Nanaimo]

So I can locate the CMYK profile my printer is using, and install it into my design suite (PS, Illustrator, InDesign) and then export relevant filetypes in that color space? That would be terribley useful.

If I do the conversion here (open their images in PS or Acrobat and convert the profile) aren't I still stuck in the 'I don't know what shade of pink you want that flower to be' still anyways?

(I work in a digital print shop where literally no one has any training - my degree is in design, yes, but we didn't cover printing and prepress specifics at all. I can tell you a tonne about typography and history of modern art but everything here in the print shop I have to teach myself. We have a prepress tech but she...uh, well, lets just say I was the only one who knew you can't set a white object to overprint. I have no one to teach me 'there is a better way to do that') - your input is extremley appreciated.

[web-weaver]

p3vanisle wrote:

So I can locate the CMYK profile my printer is using, and install it into my design suite (PS, Illustrator, InDesign) and then export relevant filetypes in that color space? That would be terribley useful.

Yes, you have to install the profile on your computer. In Photoshop CSxx you go >Edit >Convert to Profile, and select the CMYK-profile under <Destination Space>. In Acrobat you go >Edit >Color Management, and select the profile under <Working Space>. But only Photoshop will convert the image to CMYK, whereas - at least for my understanding - Acrobat will display the image as if it were CMYK but not actually convert it.

If I do the conversion here (open their images in PS or Acrobat and convert the profile) aren't I still stuck in the 'I don't know what shade of pink you want that flower to be' still anyways?

If you get a RGB image from a client, you have to assume that the colors are as wanted. This is not different when you get a CMYK image. The problem for you is that nor everybody has a calibrated monitor, so an image might look good on their monitor but the actual color numbers will produce a print that looks different. But there is nothing you can do, except - if you have the time - adjust obvious off-colors. For instance you know the skin-color of caucasian (white) people. You know how green a lawn is, and you know that most brides wear a white gown. So if for instance the gown is blue-ish, or the skin looks overly pink, you can adjust that. More you cannot do. In case of a flower you can only accept the photo as is - unless you know this type of flower very well.

But the evaluation of color is only possible if you have a calibrated monitor that is re-calibrated regularly (every week or so). If your monitor is not calibrated you have no way of knowing if the off-color is due to the color numbers of the delivered image or a result of your un-calibrated monitor that displays the colors differently than the color numbers warrant.

If you use a calibrated monitor the colors should not change on conversion to CMYK. You can use the Softproof feature in Photoshop to check if colors are out of gamut.

- my degree is in design, yes, but we didn't cover printing and prepress specifics at all.

Yes, I have noticed in my work that the designers often have no knowledge about color management, printing, and pre-press. Good on you that you care and want to learn!

Keep on asking if you wish.

[john beardsworth]

You ever seen this article by Jeff Schewe http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phscs2ip_reproprep.pdf ? It should help you.

[CaramelMacchiato]

Hello johnbeardy,

johnbeardy wrote:

You ever seen this article by Jeff Schewe http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phscs2ip_reproprep.pdf ? It should help you.

You have no idea HOW happy I have finally find a solid resource that you mentioned the link above. I had downloaded the PDF file and place it on iPad and all of Macs AT ONCE.

I am aware about Jeff Schewe as he is expertise in area of colour management topic. I suspect that it takes YEARS to master colour mangement and yet still deal with complication of colour management - it just depends on the image itself, and recently I learned about two aspect of colour management is input and output of colour management. Before that, it took me YEARS to understand fundamentals of colour management. I suspect that it will some other years to master it.

BUT with your reference of link you mentioned certainly will make a big difference. Even though, the PDF file is very highly technical topic. In other words, it will help me to understand the root of colour management fundamentals... especially with out of gamut... and techniques as well as workaround techinques.

So, thank you for helping out. I take that you are expertise in colour management topic. If you know of any other books that I should look into buying one or two.

I have to say... Thank you! Hands down! With a BIG smile!

Brian

[Jeff Schewe]

CaramelMacchiato wrote:

BUT with your reference of link you mentioned certainly will make a big difference. Even though, the PDF file is very highly technical topic. In other words, it will help me to understand the root of colour management fundamentals... especially with out of gamut... and techniques as well as workaround techinques.

Brian, I think if you read the PDF carefully, I think you'll find it's really not that "technical"...the key is to walk before you run and get a little bit of experience under your belt before taking on any big projects!

John, thanks for posting that link...I had forgotten I wrote that back in 2006! I just reread it and it is pretty useful :~)

[CaramelMacchiato]

Hi Jeff,

Thank you for writing. You certainly give me a good piece of advice about your PDF file. Your PDF file will be my permenant reference for rest of my life!

Slightly off topic, I have always wanted to go to one of those photographic vogage trip - only at the right time in near future. Not to mention that I am deaf, but being deaf has nothing to do with colour management or photography at all. Just my discerning eyes.

I hope one day we eventually meet in person, perhaps through one of those awesome workshop(s) and photographic voyage and learn more from you and other experts related to color management topic. I find that color management is very intriuging.

Jeff, thank you for taking your time. I will contact you off the forum in private - sometime this weekend and go from there. And thank you for your valuable advice!

John, once again, a big thank you for posting a link of Jeff Schewe's PDF file. Even if it was published sometime in 2006, but it has still pretty good information!!!

By the way, I am very happy about 'finally' got the good info and know where to look for and where to find your PDF file!!!

Brian (me being big smile between two eyes)

[CaramelMacchiato]

Hi Jeff,

Jeff Schewe wrote:

Brian, I think if you read the PDF carefully, I think you'll find it's really not that "technical"...the key is to walk before you run and get a little bit of experience under your belt before taking on any big projects!

Actually, Jeff, you might ponder as to why I am so excited and happy about your PDF reference. Because there were other books that I had purchased over the years. Many has not been very helpful, really.

I have found that your "Preparing Images for Delivery" PDF (published in 2006) certainly has been very helpful. It has concise, clear steps in a 32-pages PDF. It is far the best of all that I had read related to colour management topic. Hands down!

Out out of my curiousity, do you plan to write new book about this topic (or PDF) to keep the topic current? Or it is pretty much very similar since you wrote in 2006 and now, no?

Thanks again! I appreciate your knowledge and expertise about colour management.

Brian

PS I will certainly share this info with my deaf friend in southern California.

[john beardsworth]

The great thing about the article is that it's pitched at the perfect level for so many people, and I can't count how often I've passed it on. Glad it's proved its value yet again.

Just a thought - if I hadn't remembered it, how could one find it via Adobe's site?

[Todd Shaner]

http://photoshopnews.com/2006/11/28/new-adobe-digital-photography-primers/

Photoshopnews.com appears to be an archived website last updated April 2010. There may be an index on Adobe.com to these primers, but I couldn't find one.

[TheDigitalDog]

p3vanisle wrote:

Can you expand on this for me? I work in a digital print shop and I've always been told to request images in CMYK.

My understanding is that the printer we use uses a CMYK profile (S.W.O.P v2) so that's what I ask people to send me their files in.

How should I be handling the process?

Start here:

http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200703_rodneycm.pdf

http://digitaldog.net/files/CMYKPart2.pdf

http://www.digitaldog.net/files/RGBtoCMYKconversons.pdf

I'd also question if you really are targeting SWOP V2 (it's possible but it's also possible that isn't the case).