External editors disappear

[FrostyOfTheNorth]

I thought I'd spend some time today trying out a few photography editors to work in conjunction with Lightroom.  Simple, right?  Just install the editors and use the standard right-click > edit in > app sequence in Lightroom?

Nope.  None of the editors I installed showed up in Lightroom as external editors, even after installing, uninstalling, rebooting, checking support articles, and other time-wasters.

And then I read this:  "Occasionally, after running a Nik Collection installer, the software may not be installed correctly in Adobe Lightroom. This seems to occur because the “Store Presets with Catalog” option in Lightroom's Preferences is checked. This option is in Edit > Preferences > Presets OR Lightroom > Preferences > Presets. Un-checking this box will make all of the plug-ins appear in the Photo > Edit In menu."

Yep, that was the problem.  If I uncheck "store presets with catalog" the external editors all appears.  If I check it again (which is what I want), all the external editors disappear again.

C'mon Adobe.  Why???  I want to store my presets with catalog and use external editors.

What's the solution to this?

[Rob_Cullen]

"store presets with catalog" is not the 'norm' for most Lr users, so the common default location that External Editor presets are created is in the default folder like-  C:\Users\YourName\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom\External Editor Presets.

Installers, like NIK, do not know 'where' you store your presets (with catalog!) and so install in the default folder.

You can use the OS to Copy&Paste the {External Editor Presets} from the default location to the "with Catalog" location and carry on.

The disadvantage of "store presets with catalog" also means if you have more than one catalog you have to copy&paste presets to each catalog folder.

Using the default location means that each and every Catalog you use will all access the same presets in the default folder.

[FrostyOfTheNorth]

Surely Lightroom should intelligently account for the "Store Presets With Catalog" option -- otherwise why offer it as an option at all?

I don't use more than one catalog so that doesn't apply to me.

[Rob_Cullen]

FrostyOfTheNorth  wrote

Surely Lightroom should intelligently account for the "Store Presets With Catalog" option -- otherwise why offer it as an option at all?

It is not Lightroom that installs the External Editors- so ask the other editing programs to "intelligently" put their editor preset in YOUR catalog location! (How would I know where that was if I was a program installer?)

Except for Adobe programs, most other External Editors would not have any 'intelligent' connection with Lightroom- An exception might be NIK that does have 'some' intelligence in that it will add presets for Lr & Ps, but in the default location.

Do you know another EE that will add a preset? (even in the default location)

why offer it as an option at all?

For people like yourself that want the presets with the catalog- perhaps on an external transportable drive.

Be thankful that Adobe DO offer the External Editor options at all!

And most External Editor Presets must be defined by you in Lr Preferences, so you can make any and all EE presets to be available when you Store Presets With Catalog.

(I am another user with no connection to Adobe other than the forums)

[FrostyOfTheNorth]

WobertC  wrote

It is not Lightroom that installs the External Editors- so ask the other editing programs to "intelligently" put their editor preset in YOUR catalog location! (How would I know where that was if I was a program installer?)

Well, that's an easy one.  If the will is there, I'm sure there many ways to handle this, as any clever software developer could tell you.  (I spent almost two decades a software developer.)  Logic would tell you that Lightroom has the information it needs from the EE installers (since it's all there when users toggle the "Store Presets With Catalog" option).  It wouldn't be rocket science to enable that data to also be used when presets are stored with the catalog.  But the will has to be there.

WobertC  wrote

For people like yourself that want the presets with the catalog- perhaps on an external transportable drive.

I'd expect a large software company with a product that's been around as long as Lightroom has to have the time and resources to ensure that features are implemented fully -- not as a half-measure, like this seems to be.

Be thankful that Adobe DO offer the External Editor options at all!

And most External Editor Presets must be defined by you in Lr Preferences, so you can make any and all EE presets to be available when you Store Presets With Catalog.

Wait, what?  You think we should be thankful that Adobe hasn't locked in our photos by only half-implementing a feature that/most of us use daily?

(I am another user with no connection to Adobe other than the forums)

Interesting.  Your answers in this thread make you sound suspiciously like an Adobe apologist.  🙂

[Rob_Cullen]

Logic would tell you that Lightroom has the information it needs from the EE installers

I disagree there. Lightroom does not know information about other software (Photoshop, and maybe NIK, excepted) until your add it to the Preferences manually. So you can add it to the preferences 'globally' in default location, or stored with a Catalog. You have to create the EE Presets no matter where they are stored.

(since it's all there when users toggle the "Store Presets With Catalog" option).

No it is not. Installing other software does not make Lightroom automatically aware of the other myriad of software titles in existence. (except Photoshop)

you sound suspiciously like an Adobe apologist.

"a person who offers an argument in defence of something controversial."
I admit, yes, yes, I am, I like using Lightroom and promote it, but I disagree with "controversial" in the word definition for this thread topic. Most users simply copy&paste the presets and get on with life.

You could add you vote to the other one at- Lightroom Classic: I want presets stored with LR not in AppData | Photoshop Family Customer Communit...

[FrostyOfTheNorth]

WobertC  wrote

I disagree there. Lightroom does not know information about other software (Photoshop, and maybe NIK, excepted) until your add it to the Preferences manually. So you can add it to the preferences 'globally' in default location, or stored with a Catalog. You have to create the EE Presets no matter where they are stored.

I know you're trying to be helpful, but that statement is plainly wrong.  Most if not all of these installers give the option to have themselves installed/registered as external editors in Lightroom without a user having to manually add the details.

Have you actually gone through this process?  Because if you haven't, then I can see that this exchange with you won't go anywhere.

WobertC  wrote

No it is not. Installing other software does not make Lightroom automatically aware of the other myriad of software titles in existence. (except Photoshop)

Obviously, but when an Adobe feature (in this case the ability to store presets with catalog) causes the Adobe-mandated way for other apps to be installed in a way that registers them with Lightroom then something is amiss.

[Rob_Cullen]

Hi 'Frosty'

Thanks for an interesting discussion.

I DO see your point of view-  Why can't Lightroom (automatically) 'copy' presets for EEs from the Global location folder to the Catalog folder when option is set to [Store presets with catalog]?

Maybe your post at Photoshop Family Customer Community will eventually prompt Adobe to code Lightroom as you want.

All the best to you.

Robert

[FrostyOfTheNorth]

Thank you.

[GoldingD]

Adobe does have a very specific folder where third party plug-ins should go, and it is up to the third party producer to code their installers appropriately. Mind you, several versions back, the location changed.

If one third party plug-in has issues, it is not Adobe’s fault, nor responsibility to run thru hoops to make say DxO happy.

As for storing presets in the catalog, if you want to, Ok, but causes all sorts of issues in new catalogs. of course, you can fix that by copying any missing preset to your catalog.

The number one reason that Adobe included that option, is so if you gave someone a copy of your catalog, the presets would go with it (nit optonal way to do that at all)

[FrostyOfTheNorth]

davidg36166309  wrote

Adobe does have a very specific folder where third party plug-ins should go, and it is up to the third party producer to code their installers appropriately.

Right.  Although I'm talking about external editors (not third party plugins), the idea is the same.  No doubt Adobe has mandated a standard for third-party installers to follow for apps to be added automatically as external editors.  And whatever that standard is, these installers have followed that protocol.  The external editors appear -- but only if "Store Presets With Catalog" is unchecked.

davidg36166309  wrote

If one third party plug-in has issues, it is not Adobe’s fault, nor responsibility to run thru hoops to make say DxO happy.

Please re-read my original post.  I'm referring to multiple products from multiple vendors.  Their installers all seem to follow the proper installation procedure, because they do show up as external editors -- but only if "Store Presets With Catalog" is unchecked.

As soon as that option is exampled, they disappear from the list of external editors.  So yes, it is Adobe's responsibility to fix a bug (or unintended consequence or whatever you want to call it), and not anyone else's responsibility.