Lightroom 5 ICC profiles clipped shadows under OSX

New Here ,
Dec 27, 2013 Dec 27, 2013

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Hi, I've just found a really bad issue occurring in Lr 5 (but also in all other Lightroom versions) under Mac OSX 10.9 with a calibrated monitor: dark shadows (from a value of 20 to 0) are all clipped (pure black with no detail and no textures) while the histogram remains ok, indicating NO clipped shadows at all. This issue afflics also ACR.

Photoshop for now is the only software under MAC that reproduces dark shadows correctly: Library Module shows a bit darker and shifted shadows than Ps but acceptable, Develop Module is really bad showing brutally clipped shadows (but you work in the Develop Module right?!).

The same problem occurred also in OSX 10.8 but it was related only to LUT profiles, creating a Matrix based profile problems were solved.

Now the issue occurs with both Matrix and LUT profiles, v2 and v4. There's no apparent way to make Lr working right.

Under Windows no problems at all: Bridge, Photoshop, ACR, Lr (Library Module and Develop Module) show the same correct NOT clipped shadows.

I tested 8 different Mac running 10.9 with different GPU, different monitors, different profiling Softwares (Color Eyes Display Pro, Eizo Color Navigator, BasICC Color, i1 Profiler). Same results.

I tried to change the gamma value (2.2, sRGB, L*) problems remain. I tried to change ICC version (v2, v4) problems reamain. I tried to change profile type (LUT, MATRIX) problems remain.

How can a photographer work professionally on RAW images if shadows are bad reproduced?

Why Photoshop can reproduce shadows correctly while Lr isn't able to do that?

Why this happens only on a Mac enviroment?

Is Lr based on ColorSync (that can't handle profiles correctly) while Ps isn't (because it can handle and it has no problem)?

Please Adobe, FIX IT for all professional photographers, we can’t use Lr for serious works under Mac.

Max Ramuschi

Adobe Certified Expert

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correct answers 1 Correct Answer

Adobe Employee , Oct 22, 2014 Oct 22, 2014
Hi Folks,We have up-leveled this issue, identified the source and we are currently testing a solution. We will provide more information as it becomes available.Kelly C.Lightroom QE

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New Here ,
Dec 27, 2013 Dec 27, 2013

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Here is a 100% Crop of a photograph in Lr and Ps.

100%-Crop-Clipped-Shadows-LR.jpg

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 27, 2013 Dec 27, 2013

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What file types exhibit this problem? Can you post one  to a file download site?

Adobe has indicated there are no issues with Mavericks OS X 10.9 when running the latest builds of CC and CS6 apps

http://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/global/mac-os-mavericks-compatability.html?PID=7221644

Are you running LR5.3 Final?

http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=5692

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New Here ,
Dec 28, 2013 Dec 28, 2013

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Adobe is wrong.

Every file type exhibits this problem (jpg, tiff, raw), 16 bit and 8 bit with every color profile (sRGB, AdobeRGB, ProPhoto).

Yes I am running 5.3 final and the other 8 Macs I tested were running 5.3 final too.

Here is  an example:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kl494m76h9mhfhf/_E0R3160.jpg

Look at the rocks in the shadows on the right side of the waterfall (is the same example I posted here before), they are really different if opened in PS or between Library Module and Develop Module.

Every image that contains shadows from a value of 20 to 0 is right for the issue...

Some photos are really different when you open them into Ps or when you switch between the Library Module and the Develop Module (try taking night shots with lots of shadows with a value < 20 ).

You must have created a monitor profile with any of the profiling softwares on the market and you will see clearly the problem.

Max Ramuschi

Adobe Certified Expert

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 28, 2013 Dec 28, 2013

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As you have already mentioned the issue does not occur on Windows systems. When I compare the image in LR5.3 and PS CS6 on my Windows 7 system they are identical.

First suspect would be the Graphics drivers and it looks like there is an OS X 10.9.1 update that addresses graphics driver issues:

http://www.tonymacx86.com/400-os-x-10-9-1-update.html

...and an OS X 10.9.2 update in the works that also includes graphics drivers updates:

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/12/19/apple-seeds-first-os-x-10-9-2-build-to-developers/

You can report this as a problem here:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family

There is nothing currently posted here with your issue.

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Explorer ,
Dec 28, 2013 Dec 28, 2013

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Explorer ,
Dec 29, 2013 Dec 29, 2013

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well, have to wait for 10.9.2 and hope..?

..but if l software-calibrate the Eizo monitor CG 19 with i1Profiler, the LR previews working fine then, strange...

seems LR doesnt recognise the profile from Eizo Color Navigator 5.4.5

im on an mac pro 5.1

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New Here ,
Dec 29, 2013 Dec 29, 2013

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Guys, EVERY MAC running Mavericks just suffer this issue: it happens both on ATI equipped Mac and Intel ones regardless of the monitor installed. I don't think it's a driver relate problem.

Yes, on Windows images are identical.

Adobe should reprogram Lightroom 5 for Mac to solve this issue: no professional use of it for now. Really disappointing...

What should I tell to my Lr class students? "Well guys shadows are all wrong if you use Mavericks"? No big deal...

Max Ramuschi

Adobe Certified Expert

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New Here ,
Dec 29, 2013 Dec 29, 2013

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If you are running Mountain Lion then Lr doesn't manage LUT profiles (profiles created by Eizo Color Navigator), if you use i1 Profiler which creates a Matrix based one everything would be fine.

If you are running Mavericks there's no way to make Lr working properly.

You shouldn't use i1 Profiler to calibrate your Eizo CG. You should download the latest Eizo Color Navigator software v 6.4.6.

Max Ramuschi

Adobe Certified Expert

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Explorer ,
Dec 29, 2013 Dec 29, 2013

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Max, thank you for starting the tread

I tried 6.4.6 version, but Eizo have not made support for CG19 monitor, so it doesnt work at all

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 29, 2013 Dec 29, 2013

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Finn, would you mind testing something for me - download a trial of BasICColor Display and try profiling using that, with it set to Matrix and the v4 box UNchecked. 

I can't repro the problem on my EIZO, which means there must be something different between our machines or profiles. 

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Explorer ,
Dec 29, 2013 Dec 29, 2013

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thank you Victoria, genious 🙂

look in the shadows in the screenshot 100% crop:

cal.jpg

the ugly dark shadows are gone. LR vs PS are perfect now

I am still a little confused:  with  Basiccolor: does the hardware calibration work even in "Matrix" modus?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 29, 2013 Dec 29, 2013

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Excellent. Yes, hardware calibration still works with matrix profiles.

You could also check the EIZO software update that Max mentioned - hopefully that will give you the same result as BasICColor.

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Explorer ,
Dec 29, 2013 Dec 29, 2013

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well, others have to try version 6.4.6, didnt work on my monitor..

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 29, 2013 Dec 29, 2013

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I don't see this problem using LR 5.3 on Mac OS 10.9.1. Calibrated to a v2 profile using a simple Spyder3Pro. Must be quite specific to the calibration solution. Weird that it would be OS dependent. Lightroom supposedly uses the Adobe Color Engine which should be the exact same code as is used in Photoshop so it is strange that there would be a difference but then again the LUT v4 ICC profile problem has been a very long standing one that Photoshop never had. I even took screenshots from the display of your file in Lightroom and PS and overlaid them and they are virtually the same even when boosted using a Curves adjustment layer to show the shadow area more clearly. There are some very minute differences as the Library module displays previews from a jpeg preview instead of the orginal so it is recompressed.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 29, 2013 Dec 29, 2013

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OK, just tried and compared the Develop module with PS CC and the Develop module definately has darker shadows than PS. Not as extreme as you describe but indeed shadows do get darkened (doesn't look blocked but they are indeed somewhat darker). Not good.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 29, 2013 Dec 29, 2013

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Try the Black Level test pattern at Lagom:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/blacktest.png

Right-click on the image and Save it. No profile is assigned, but it's sRGB. Inside LR I can see the patches all the way down to patch Level 1.

Check it in both the Library and Develop modules and inside PS.

On my Windows 7 system with LR5.3.

Black Level Test pattern.jpg

Message was edited by: trshaner Added screenshot

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 29, 2013 Dec 29, 2013

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Yeah that confirms it. With that black level patch image in Library it looks basically identical to Photoshop but when I switch to Develop all the darker patches turn mutch darker. You see darkening in patches all the way to 15. 20 seems unaffected. Clearly a bug. Very disconcerting. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 30, 2013 Dec 30, 2013

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I can see Library being lighter, but Develop is almost identical to PS here, as I'd expect. 

BUT I can reproduce the problem with Max's profile.  I'm flagging it up for the team (note that Adobe is closed at the moment, so there may be a delay)

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Explorer ,
Dec 30, 2013 Dec 30, 2013

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I can confirm develop is little darker than library, even after sucessfull calibration with basiCColor.

But Im now sure after checking 20 times, PS is more identical to library here

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 30, 2013 Dec 30, 2013

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You can measure the screen values to determine the actual difference.

Do two screen captures in LR (Library and Develop) with the Lagom downloaded blacktest.png file.

1) Paste or open each screen capture in PS and 'Assign Profile' with your current monitor profile.

2) Then 'Convert to Profile' using sRGB profile Destination Color Space.

3) Open the original Lagom downloaded blacktest.png file in PS (values are 100% correct).

Use the PS Eydropper tool with Sample Size of 11x11 tool to measure the "average" patch RGB values.

On my Windows 7 system the patch difference between the LR Library and Develop screen captures is no more than ±1 level, with the Library module about 1 level lower (i.e. darker) on some patches. This is a very small difference, which was only visible using an AB overlay comparison in PS.

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New Here ,
Jan 17, 2014 Jan 17, 2014

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I can't obtain a right profile even with Basiccolor.

It isn't an Eizo related problem, because I have the same issue on my MBP 13" and 15" LCD Retina, calibrated with ColorEyes and I1 profiler.

Please if you have a macbook pro just try to calibrate and see if the issue shows up.

Note that only images with dark shadows are affected, some more some less.

Waiting for news. Using windows now, where everithing works right.

Ps: I'm asking myself if it'd be a device problem. Any spider4 user opinion?

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New Here ,
Jan 18, 2014 Jan 18, 2014

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Ok, tried to calibrate an eizo CG 246 with its own integrated calibrator and the same issue shows up.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 18, 2014 Jan 18, 2014

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I've tried Spyder3 and 4 and the issue shows up too. Subtle if you don't look for it and only in Develop. Again, Photoshop CC and other color managed programs are fine. Clearly a bug in Lightroom that only shows up on Mavericks for some strange reason. Hope Adobe fixes this soon as it is a problem if you want your deep shadows to be just right.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 18, 2014 Jan 18, 2014

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There are numerous posts concerning display issues after upgrading to Mavericks OS X 10.9 (see below). After reading these posts it appears Apple has done something to the graphics drivers that raises the color saturation level and increases contrast. Why LR has this issue and PS doesn't is still a mystery. My guess is that PS isn't affected because it's using Open GL for creating the display output data (LR does not use Open GL). It's pretty clear to me this is an Apple OS X issue and not LR.

https://discussions.apple.com/message/23495418#23495418

http://apple.slashdot.org/story/13/10/22/225215/os-x-109-mavericks-review

"Basically, the sRGB spec is no longer sRGB, and colour managed applications that use ColorSync are completely hosed. Almost everything is more saturated then it should be. Towers of bug reports have been filed on this alone and absolutely nobody has received a response from Apple, which makes me think it's some retarded "stylistic choice" of theirs to literally try and make the OS "look better" (it doesn't)."

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1651041

"A lot of icons in and throughout Mavericks (including icons in the Finder and icons in System Preferences) are rendering "darker" then normal. You can actually screenshot this and it'll show up. I've attached an example of this from the iTunes icon- 10.9 is on the right, 10.8 is on the left."

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1649988&highlight=saturation

"Yes, they have adjusted the default saturation level. This seems hard coded as but I actually prefer it as it makes thing "pop" more."

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