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Lightroom changes the appearance of my images after import

Participant ,
Sep 13, 2012

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I dont understand this or why it does it. my preferences has everything unchecked.

I import my images

i see the thumbnails which look fine but when i click on image, it displays on my 2nd monitor and looks perfect. but here is the problem, a second later it makes an adjestment to it which ruins my image, it makes it too bright. its like its auto toning yet i dont understand why it must do this.

my goal is to simply view my image on 2nd monitor w/o lightroom making any adjustments to it.

how can i prevent this or why is it happening?

can anyone please help me...any help would be greatly appreaciated.

Message title was edited by: Brett N

Are you recording images in RAW format?

If so, this post might have the explanation.

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Import and export, Problem or error

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Engaged ,
Sep 13, 2012

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Are you recording images in RAW format?

If so, this post might have the explanation.

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Participant ,
Sep 13, 2012

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hiyas thanks for that link, read it but its not quite what i'm looking for.

i'll try to explain in mroe detail.

when i import my raw images, the thumbnails looks perfect.

however when i click on the thumbnail, it displays the image in fullsize on my monitor, which looks perfect...but i notice the scroll wheel, like its processing something than bam it ruins the image, it makes it way too bright.

so i try to do right click, develop reset but it does nothing.

i want the image to look the way it did when it first displayed it.

when i click on my image to view in fullsize the first time, its perfect but a split second later, lightroom does something to it, like its auto toning it.

yet i verify the auto tonig is NOT checked.

is there a way maybe to jsut delete the preferences file all together? manually that is.

i'm so frsutrated because my image is perfect than lightroom thinks it has to tone it when there is no need to.

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Sep 13, 2012 9
Engaged ,
Sep 13, 2012

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Your photos are perfect out of camera. Then you should take jpeg photo only instead of raw.

In short, whatever you see when you first load your photos in Lightroom are embedded jpg file created by your camera. LR only display it briefly, then LR will give you your "real" RAW file. You can adjust your RAW file to look similar to your jpg. If you're lazy and think your jpg is perfect, then just shoot jpg only.

LR doesn't ruin your photos. It gives you the "real" look of your RAW. There is nothing you can do about it. If you prefer the jpg photo, use your camera-provided-software.

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Sep 13, 2012 6
Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 13, 2012

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Can you post the specs of your camera and what special setting, if any,  you use to capture the images.

This is important since LR is only processing the raw data with its own recipe and cannot apply any special settings you may have used in your camera.

Look at it this way, if you consider the rendition of the raw data by your camera to be perfect, why are you spending a lot of money to purchase Lightroom to provide you with the same rendition.

Adobe has developed a special software to provide you with the development tools to process the raw data from your camera, which they believe will enable you to create a superior rendition.

If you provide some more info, then users of the same or similar model camera can offer some advice in "cooking" the raw data. If you choose to shoot raw, then you have to play the role of the "chef", the tools are there.

Regards, Denis: System iMac mid-2015, 5K 27” monitor, macOS10.15.7: LrC 10, Lr 4, Ps 22.0,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Participant ,
Sep 13, 2012

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i disagree

and i think i'm still being missunderstood

its so hard to explain exactly what i'm seeing

if your point is correct, which i dont understand, why does it modify the image?

when i click on my thumbnail it displays it in fullsize

i look at it in fullsize and its perfect just as it is, the exposure and colors are deaad on but then i see "loading" and it then modifys. so now my fullsize image has changed, and quite frankly, ruined and i can't seem to UNDO it. it does not look the way it was first displayed.

I shoot RAW for the obvious advantages, I do HDR and if ya tell to HDR a jpeg file, well the result is terrible.

but if I have a raw file to work with to make HDR than the results are amazing

so telling me to use jpeg really is not a good choice for me.

i want lightroom to NOT ruin my image I want it to NOT tone or do whatever it is its doing.

its applying a change to my image.

if I use windows explorer to look at my raw file, its perfect, if i use LR it makes it look worse.

how to fix this issue?

is there some file i need to delete to prevent LR from doing this?

something is wrong, clearly LR should not be applying changes to a fullsize image.

i understand auto toning on import which is in prefs

my thumbnails looks fine

its the fullsize that changes.

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Sep 13, 2012 10
Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 13, 2012

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One other thing, is your monitor profiled/calibrated using a hardware tool like iOne Display or Spyder. Lightroom color working space is a derivative of ProPhoto RGB and the jpeg thumbs from your camera are sRGB a very basic color space. Maybe your monitor cannot display the correct colors/tones from Lightroom.   

Regards, Denis: System iMac mid-2015, 5K 27” monitor, macOS10.15.7: LrC 10, Lr 4, Ps 22.0,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Sep 13, 2012 1
LEGEND ,
Sep 13, 2012

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i want lightroom to NOT ruin my image I want it to NOT tone or do whatever it is its doing.

its applying a change to my image.

You are the one misunderstanding.

At first, you see the JPG preview, with in camera modifications, based upon your camera settings. (also, in Windows explorer, you are seeing the JPG preview, with in camera modifications, based upon your camera settings.)

So Lightroom shows you the JPG preview until it can render the RAW image and display it on your screen. So, next you see the Lightroom rendered RAW photo, which has none of the in camera JPG modifications. In layman's terms, Lightroom is showing a representation of the image as your sensor saw it. So Lightroom is NOT changing the appearance of your image; it is showing you the image as the sensor saw it; the in camera algorithms that create the JPG are changing the appearance of your image.

There is no way for Lightroom to match, automatically, the in-camera modifications, based upon your camera settings. It doesn't know about your camera settings, and it doesn't have the same algorithms that are in the camera chip that are used to produce the JPG.

You must modify the RAW image yourself, if straight out of the camera, it is not pleasing to you. Most people who use Lightroom will tell you that they can produce more pleasing images using Lightroom that the JPG that comes out of the camera. But you have to edit the image yourself.

There is no way in Lightroom to disable the way it handles RAW photos. Your only choice would be to use different software, like the camera manufacturer's software, which can interpret the camera settings.

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Participant ,
Sep 13, 2012

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yes i have a Spyder

its calibrated

i just dont understand why it has to modify the image after it firstly displays it fine

its like Auto toning it

understand this, when i first click on image to view full size, it displays it perfect...than a split second later...i see "Loading..." than it ruins the image

how do i prevent it from doing that second part? i want LR to just display the image as is which is fine but for some reason LR is gay and thinks it needs to auto tone which makes small changes to exposure and brightness.

i try to reset but nothing changes which means i have to go one by one on each image and manually correct exposure and brightness which i find infuriating because it was fine before it made the change.

Lightroom is a love and hate thing. it would be nice if it just did not try to think so hard and jsut leave my image as is.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 13, 2012

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What camera are you using? Are you using any special settings e.g. Active D Lighting?

Regards, Denis: System iMac mid-2015, 5K 27” monitor, macOS10.15.7: LrC 10, Lr 4, Ps 22.0,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Mentor ,
Sep 13, 2012

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ninjapimp wrote:

i just dont understand why it has to modify the image after it firstly displays it fine

This is the most frequently asked of the frequently asked questions:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/358016?tstart=30

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 13, 2012

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Lee, this was linked in the very first response by martin-s.

Regards, Denis: System iMac mid-2015, 5K 27” monitor, macOS10.15.7: LrC 10, Lr 4, Ps 22.0,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Participant ,
Sep 13, 2012

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active d lighting is disabled on my nikon d800

i read the link and as far as i understand it, it pertains to importing and thumbnails.

i've already imported and thunbnails have been processed and look fine to me

what i dont understand is when i open or view image large, it appears perfect, jsut the way it should be but moments later i see LR doing some kind of process. my best guess, its auto toning it.

it makes a small adjustment which IMO ruins the image that requires me to manually readjust it

i can't develop reset, when i try this nothing happen the image will not revert.

to clarify, when i first import my images, in raw format, i see LR auto tones them...even though the auto tone feature is unchecked in pref. but i dont mind as the change is okay, it does not ruin the thunbnail image

that link posted am i'm miss understanding it???

i read it as importing and affecting thumbnails, but what about full size image?

for about 1 ro 2 seconds when my image is disaplyed in full size its rendered perfect, than about another second passes, i see loading...and then the image is screwed.

so what 'm trying to get is if image was perfect why does it have to ruin it and how to stop it from doing this if the image was rendered perfect in the first place.

is it possible LR has corrupt preferences and auto tones regardless??

is there some file i can manually delete via windows explorer to perhaps prevent this.

if LR renders the image perfect but than changes it, i wish to stop that and i believe it can be done since its an extra step its doing.

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Mentor ,
Sep 13, 2012

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That post applies to thumbnails, small and large previews.

Your camera turns the raw data into an image, according to the camera's algorithms and settings.

LR turns the raw data into an image, according to Adobe's algorithms and the settings you choose.

These are different images.

When you first import, you see the camera's image.

When time is available, LR renders its own image.

If you think some auto tone is going on, look at the settings on the image in question in Develop, and see if you see anything different than the defaults (all zeros in the Basic panel, for example).

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Participant ,
Sep 13, 2012

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readin the link i find this

If you are constantly altering the settings for images a certain way, it may

be that you should create a Develop preset

is it possible there is a Nikon authorized preset for nikon d800?

in other words is there an official preset i can downlaod and install into LR so it renders my RAW files exactly as they appear?

i assure you when i click on them to view full size, it displays them perfect but then LR decides to render them wrong. which i'm baffled, because it display its perfect but a second later i see, loading, than bam ruins it.

i have tried applying devep presets but i just can't get it right and when i do get it right it only works on some images and find myself having to spend more time tweaking the preset than actually wotking on my image.

which is why i do ZERO auto toning or develop presets on imports.

i want my image as original as possible with no modifications.

sometimes a develop preset works but it seems like a crapshoot

i'm starting to think there is no workaround for this dilemma and i'm in the same boat like everyone else, just gota deal with this crap.

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Sep 13, 2012 2
Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 13, 2012

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The OP still doesn't understand the whole concept of what Lightroom is doing. Every raw image includes a JPEG preview. Lightroom displays that preview when it first loads the raw image. That JPEG image has been modified by different camera settings. The camera is what modified the file. Lightroom ignores those camera settings and builds a preview of the "raw" data captured by the camera. Again, your camera is what applied the settings to that JPEG preview.

In my opinion, the first thing to do when starting to use Lightroom is to adjust one of your images so that it looks right. Then, set those settings as the default settings for your camera. Those settings will then be applied whenever new images are imported into Lightroom. Of course, there will be certain situations where you will need different settings for different lighting situations. To accommodate those situations you can create presets.

The people who have tried to explain what is happening to your images are not misunderstanding the situation. You are misunderstanding what must be done to make Lightroom work for you rather than you having to change everything that Lightroom does. Take the time to create your own set of defaults. Then you will be much happier with the way Lightroom works for you. If you don't want to do that then you are going to have to do a lot of unnecessary corrections.

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Sep 13, 2012 3
LEGEND ,
Sep 13, 2012

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ninjapimp wrote:

my thumbnails looks fine

its the fullsize that changes.

The fullsize should look very similar to the thumbnail, once Lightroom has replaced *both* the embedded thumbnail & fullsize views with Lightroom's renditions. Those renditions may look very different than the camera-generated thumbnails/full-size views which are displayed immediately after importing (which are the same images that Windows Explorer displays).

If this is not the case, then you have something wonky going on.

I assume the "problem" is just what everybody else has been saying, but if not, then perhaps you could catch Lr in the act and post a screenshot, eh?

Do you understand how Lightroom works? - i.e. it displays a jpeg preview generated by camera first (embedded in raw file for "quick" viewing), then renders a different version from the raw data and displays that.

If you don't like the Lightroom rendition, then probably you need to change the default camera profile to one of the camera emulation profiles, instead of Adobe Standard. And/or, you may need to tweak other settings too since Lightroom won't automatically apply stuff like intelligent contrast processing, which your camera is applying.

Also, I recommend shooting raw+jpeg for a while, and importing separately - at least until you gain experience with Lightroom. That way you can compare the in-camera jpeg to the raw as edited in Lightroom. You should be able to create a better looking photo by editing the raw in Lightroom. If you can't, then something is amiss.

PS - There are things you can do to have the initial Lightroom rendition more closely match your camera's rendition, but I don't do those things, since once I get the image into Lightroom, I no longer care what the camera-generated image looks like.

Rob

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Participant ,
Sep 13, 2012

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Please post samples to see if there's a problem with LR. I assume it's the JPG vs. RAW "problem"....

When shooting RAW you get an almost raw file. "Poblem" is that you get fooled by the camera display showing the JPG produced in camera from the RAW and fooled by the histogram displayed on the camera screen which was taken from the JPG and not from the RAW file.

Another player in the games is again your camera. If you set it to - what Canon calls- a certain picture style this only has effect on the sharpness, contrast, tint etc. of the JPG. The more the JPG gets tweaked in camera the more will your RAW look different when rendered in LR.

When working with picture styles you might want to browse the web to find presets or camera calibration settings to be used in LR. These presets tweak your RAW to make it look like a JPG with a certain picture style.

I shoot RAW to be independend from Canons in camera presets, noise reduction, sharpening, picture processing etc.

I wrote that you get an "almost" raw image after importing to LR. LR has built-in settings to mimic the look of a neutral, in camera produced JPG depending on the camera model upon import. For me this works pretty well but there are lots of discussions on how raw a RAW should be inside LR. Some like to start working on their images frame scratch, means a dull looking, very flat image giving them full control and a start from zero.

Oli

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Mentor ,
Sep 14, 2012

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ninjapimp wrote:

is it possible there is a Nikon authorized preset for nikon d800?

Your camera has a zillion different possible settings for the way it renders the images.  Adobe has provided a few "camera matching profiles" installed with LR for those that actually want the camera's image, and also want to shoot raw.

Camera Calibration panel, Profile: box, select whatever you currently have selected in-camera.  This won't include any adjustments you've made in-camera to sharpness, contrast, saturation, or whatever else Nikon allows you to change, including D-lighting and such.

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Sep 14, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 14, 2012

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is it possible there is a Nikon authorized preset for nikon d800?

Yes, it is called Capture NX2. It does everything you have been asking for. But it doesn't work with Lightroom.

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Sep 14, 2012 2
New Here ,
Nov 29, 2012

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I was pretty seriously dumbfounded by what LR was doing with my RAW's so thanks everyone here.

The basic preset LR uses to display raws really doesn't do anything. It just shows the RAW. In my case, to get the images to look more 'normal', I needed to set the noise reduction to get rid of the noise. In develop mode: Luminance ~13, detail ~50, contrast 0. All of a sudden all the shots look 'normal' - especially shots with a dark background, that previously were filled to the brim with noise, now look nice.

My understanding is that this can be saved as a preset and applied to everything.

On another note, I have 3 monitors - two new viewsonics and a 8 year old apple cinema display. The raws look 10x better on the cinema display with no extra work, making me think my cheap 22 inch displays don't hit the full color spectrum - especially with dark gradients. So if you have some cheap 22 inch monitors, and your pictures look problematic, that might be why as well.

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Nov 29, 2012 0
Community Beginner ,
Aug 19, 2014

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I have to agree, with DdeGannes.   I don't think that the answer is if it looks good in camera, then shoot it JPg.  Why would you want to reduce the amount of information of the image by shooting in Jpg.  There is definitely  a problem here.  One of my camera is a 5D and I know that Lightroom has profiles for that camera.   It would not be bad if you could get hold of someone in Adobe to sort this out.   Its darn frustrating to watch the images be destroyed, then have to go back in and correct lightroom mess.  I thought it was meant to help you speed up workflow not slow you down!  

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Aug 19, 2014 2
Community Beginner ,
Oct 26, 2014

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We are having the SAME trouble and it JUST started happening!!!  We have used Lightroom since 2006 and this is a brand new issue TODAY.

Is there a setting that has been "tripped", at the end of the import process...it syncs the whole batch with the very first imported exposure.

We have turn off Auto Import just in case that was the problem and re-uploaded and the issue remains!!!

WHY can't someone have a simple answer for this?

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Oct 26, 2014 3
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 26, 2014

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It’s unlikely the same problem, because what is described, earlier, is the difference between the camera-embedded preview (while the Loupe view says Loading…) and the LR-computed image.

It’s hard to guess what might be wrong without seeing a screenshot of what you’re seeing, but maybe it is that you have a preset set during Import that is applied automatically—check your Import panel.

Maybe you have Auto Sync set so when you make adjustments to one image the rest of the selected images are also changed (unless this is what you mean when you said Auto Import isn’t enabled).

In either case, look at the White-Balance, Basic Toning, HSL, and Split Toning values/sliders and see that they are all As Shot or 0 when the images look strange.

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Oct 26, 2014 0
Community Beginner ,
Oct 27, 2014

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Well- it happens on the upload - they pop up one at a time looking great as in the camera and then one by one change and go down two stops? It's awful.

At one point a year or two ago, we would shoot in black and white through the camera and then they upload in Lightroom one at a time in black and white ... Then one at a time turn back to color.

Sent from my iPhone

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Oct 27, 2014 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 27, 2014

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Either you’re applying a preset during Import – check your import panel, or you have the camera set to a special mode that tries to protect highlights by purposely underexposing and the artificially brightens the shadows in the camera JPGs and camera-embedded previews. Since this artificial brightening doesn’t actually affect the raw data, you’ll only see the underexposed shots in LR, because Adobe has no way to know what Nikon is doing in the camera and just interprets the raw data using the Adobe defaults.

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Oct 27, 2014 0
Community Beginner ,
Oct 27, 2014

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Seems easier to not shoot in RAW and take care of the color balance myself.

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 10:35 AM, ssprengel <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

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LEGEND ,
Oct 27, 2014

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vansphoto wrote:

Well- it happens on the upload - they pop up one at a time looking great as in the camera and then one by one change and go down two stops? It's awful.

At one point a year or two ago, we would shoot in black and white through the camera and then they upload in Lightroom one at a time in black and white ... Then one at a time turn back to color.

Sounds perfect, maybe.

I mean, in general, that's how Lightroom works - it re-renders from raw, ignoring in-camera jpeg and most camera settings.

So a different look in Lightroom is expected.

And a drop in exposure is expected if your camera is using highlight protection features which work by dropping exposure then boosting brightness of the jpeg.

But 2-stops, is too much, unless you're exagerating, or you really have that auto-contrast compensation setting cranked high in camera.

Also, as has been said, symptoms such as yours may happen if the Lr default settings have changed or a preset is being inadvertently applied, so of course check those things..

Anyway, most people recommend turning Nikon ADL (or Canon ALO, or the like for your camera) setting off to avoid such surprises. Too often ADL etc. is set wrong, and jpeg shooters (or post-processors using camera manufacturer software) may not have noticed anything (except mysteriously excessive noise) since camera (or mfr. software) compensates by judiciously boosting brightness after the fact - but Lightroom doesn't do that.

So if you are going to use Lightroom for post-processing raws, then either turn off intelli-contrast settings in camera, or get used to adding compensatory exposure (and "contrast-reduction", like -highlights +shadows) adjustments in Lightroom.

Also, try different camera profiles.

Rob

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New Here ,
May 28, 2014

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I'm not placing blame on Lightroom or Leica, but I can empathize with the OP. I have not experienced this much of a difference w/ my other RAW images from Canon, Nikon, or even Sony:

Here is what I have observed (These images are taken 8 seconds apart, with embedded JPEG preview and after preview disappears)

The first image is a screenshot of a RWL image file taken with the Leica D-LUX 6 less than a second after clicking the thumbnail (embedded JPEG preview). The second image is the RWL file after processing. While I completely understand the purpose and the difference in Raw files vs JPEG (and would obviously never use JPEG) there is something else going on here. Aside from the noticeable and expected color differences, the second file becomes considerably blurrier, to the point where the sharpness achieved in the JPEG can't be replicated. I've tried.. and tried.. and tried... and it is not achievable with these Leica images (I'm talking about image sharpness). Notice the detail in the vertical ribbing of the high-rise on the left side of the picture in both photos. And the sharpness of the trees, for example. The vertical ribbing on the building is pixels wider, achieving a blurrier appearance in the second image. The first image looks great in terms of sharpness. And that's just the image sharpness. The color, obviously, has that perfect "Leica Look" sought after and familiar w/ Leica glass, and colors that are very true to life. There does not appear to be any combination of adjustments I can make to even come close to the color range in the original JPEG, it seems. The only desire to resemble the original JPEG recorders in camera is that the colors are very true to life. In the second image, after unembedding the in-camera jpeg, the reds in the sky are lost, the highlights are never quite the same. I get it. I understand raw will look different and that it does not have the same appearance, but I think Leica is doing something to these RWL's that scramble their proprietary Leica Look once the RWL is created or once the JPEG preview is unembedded. I want to use the RWL's. I really do. but I have spent countless hours trying to replicate curves and color adjustments to "resemble" (let alone replicate) that beautiful first image and I can't get there. And once the RWL has dismissed the embedded JPEG in Lightroom, I can't even use the original embedded JPEG as a reference. Has anyone else experienced this? I wish Leica would provide a proprietary RWL to DNG converter that carried over that Leica Look over to its RWL's without losing sharpness and dynamic range (and having to recreate it for each image). Again, no issues with the other camera manufs raw formats.. These are just downright blurry as RWLs. Anyone else experiencing this and or know a fix? I'm happy to provide full size original files if necessary.

Screen Shot 2014-05-28 at 10.55.51 PM.png Screen Shot 2014-05-28 at 10.55.59 PM.png

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May 28, 2014 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 28, 2014

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I believe what you're seeing, the difference in sharpness, between the embedded camera JPG and the camera raw, when viewed in Develop using Fit Zoom, is Develop's severe oversharpening of non-whole-number-zoom preview images, and there is much more initial sharpness in the Leica JPG for the oversharpened Develop view to bite onto, compared to the raw sensor data that you see with the AWL.

If you want a camera JPG for reference, then shoot RAW+JPG if your camera allows it, but don't get hung up on Develop's non-accurate Fit Zoom preview guesstimate.  Fit previews are for toning not judging sharpness which should be done at 1:1 zoom.

If you want some more detailed analysis upload that AWL to www.dropbox.com and post a download link to it in a reply, here.

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New Here ,
May 28, 2014

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Original RWL: L1050610.RWL

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New Here ,
May 28, 2014

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Hi, ssprengel. Thanks for your input. The link to the original file is being moderated... but here is something in the meanwhile that may describe the difference as well. I used the 1:1 view as you suggested in Develop mode. I seem to be getting the same results, but check this out. As I use the mouse to pan, the embedded in camera preview shows up for a brief while where the screen hasn't had a chance to refresh. In this image, you can see that there is a shifting of pixels, as if the in-camera JPEG is using an entirely different lens correction algorithm altogether. See towards the left side of the image for a clearer example of the embedded JPEG pixel alignment comparison vs RWL pixel alignment of the same image.

Screen Shot 2014-05-28 at 11.48.56 PM.png

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May 28, 2014 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 28, 2014

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Your top-bottom-split view shows the difference more clearly.  The original preview LR is showing is much lower resolution.

Extracting the camera-embedded preview JPG from your RWL file using the following website -- Jeffrey's Exif viewer -- one can see that the camera JPG is 1920x1080 pixels or a little less than half the resolution of the raw data and has been sharpened in camera at that resolution so it looks sharper but with more pixilation than the original raw data processed by LR.

Here is your preview JPG -- right-click Open Target/Link in New Tab/Window to view full size:

L1050610_preview.jpg

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May 28, 2014 0
New Here ,
May 29, 2014

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Thank you.. Would you be able to help me decipher the in-camera color balancing from the exif and how I may be able to simulate it in lightroom?. The link above was helpful, however, I believe there is still some proprietary processing which is not evident in the exif in addition to a different distortion algorithm applied. Why else would there be such a drastic misalignment in the pixels as seen in the far left of the image as seen with the vertical ribs on the high-rise. The JPEG, while smaller, as you say, is in the same proportion of the image.

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May 29, 2014 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 29, 2014

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If you scale the preview and the raw file to the same size, and alternate between them, it seems as though the image is shifted slightly diagonally between the preview and the raw, rather than the lens distortion corrections being different. 

Adobe only supplies one Adobe Standard profile for Leica cameras.  Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Fuji have other profiles from Adobe that try to simulate the camera color processing for various modes.

--

You can make your own color profiles with a Color Checker standard target and either Adobe or X-Rite software.  The standard color target is what costs money.  It won't be the same as what the camera does, most likely, but you can match your raw conversions to the lighting characteristics more closely:

http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_overview.aspx?ID=1257

Here is another possibility, but they seem to have trouble getting cards produced.  They seem better because they can make color profiles that clip bright colors, less, preserving more detail:

http://www.qpcard.com/en_b2c/color-profiling/

I've used an X-Rite Color Checker Passport for years although a lot of times I use Adobe's Camera Match profiles for my Canon DSLR, instead.  I ordered a QPCard from B&H Photo May 1st, and now they are backordered until the end of July.  They are a small Swedish company.

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May 29, 2014 0
Community Beginner ,
Oct 17, 2014

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Can you please let me know if my images are the result of jpg preview then RAW convert via Lightroom?  Image on left is before it "loads" and image on right is after. These are from last night and are minor compared to previous imports.  As an example the shadows and tone look worse after it loads.  her skin color and hair color changes. Thank you!

Screen Shot 2014-10-17 at 2.11.35 PM.png

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Oct 17, 2014 0
Community Beginner ,
Oct 17, 2014

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Also may be hard to tell by the magentas always seem saturated.

Screen Shot 2014-10-17 at 3.02.34 PM.png

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Oct 17, 2014 0
LEGEND ,
Oct 17, 2014

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Can you please let me know if my images are the result of jpg preview then RAW convert via Lightroom?  Image on left is before it "loads" and image on right is after.

As far as I know, that is the only possible explanation of the change of appearance after you import a RAW.

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 17, 2014

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That is what I thought.  Thank you for your time!

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Oct 17, 2014 1
LEGEND ,
Oct 17, 2014

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TishyB2013 wrote:

Also may be hard to tell by the magentas always seem saturated.

That's the Adobe Standard camera profile, which does seem pretty magenta-y to more than one of us.

Consider:

* Creating a variation of Adobe Standard using the DNG Profile Editor with the maganta-y-ness toned down, or

* use a preset with camera calibration sliders tweaked to suit, or

* change the tint toward green.

Rob

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 14, 2012

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I think that your default settings are the fault here.  In the develop module, with one of the screwed up images chosen, hold down alt on a pc opt on a mac and click "set default" on the lower right corner in lightroom.  Holding down alt changes the "reset" button to "set default".  After you click on this, in the new window, select "Restore Adobe Default Settings".  This should result in a "better" rendition of your previews.  Now, if you want to make changes (including camera profiles that may be available to match your in camera processing) to the "default" settings, you can and make these new settings your default by alt/opt>set default>Update to current settings. 

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 15, 2012

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Ninjapimp,


I feel your pain!  I am having the exact same issue but it turns my image way way too dark.  I understand what everyone is saying about jpegs out of camera for the preview versus raw files in LR.  This still does not seem to make sense.  In my case, the image on the camera screen and thumbnail preview when initially viewed in LR looks beautiful, sharp, and well exposed.  After the "loading," completes, the image turns dark. 

At first, I didn't fret and attempted to adjust exposure, fill light, etc.  Now my image looks grainsy as SH*T!  Complete loss of detail.  Not how I exposed the picture and the picture out of LR is unusable. 

Someone please help.  This is not just a "JPEG" issue.  It seems like my camera (Sony Nex 7) can understand data in the file that LR cannot.

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Sep 15, 2012 2
Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 15, 2012

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Can you post a public download link for one of your images after uploading them to something like www.dropbox.com or www.yousendit.com? The graininess is normal if you are brightening dark areas, because that brightening is a digital increase in ISO of those areas. The camera-JPGs will have had noise-reduction applied to them and in LR you need to turn up the Luminance NR because the Adobe factory-default is zero.

Since there is so much difference in exposure between the LR and NEX7 images, perhaps you have a setting enabled in camera that auto-fixes exposure problems or auto-compresses highlights. Highlight compression is done by the camera unexposing the images by a stop or more, and then digitally adding brightness to only the darker area—like Fill-Light or increasing Shadows does in LR.

If you are going to be using LR then you should turn off the camera fixes because they mask exposure problems when you view the images on your camera’s LCD.

What version of LR are you using, specifically?

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 15, 2012

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I am using Lightroom 3. 

I just re-imported a set of pictures and took screen grabs showing what is happening as previews are rendered. 

Each photo starts off with quality in the thumbnail, then one by one, they turn dark.

The below links are to my dropbox showing the screen grabs.  I want to stress that each of the photos in the series shown were taken with the same ISO, shutter speed, and aperture value.  In the camera, they look great...in LR they go black as the previews are rendered.  I have also included a full size showing with the exposure and fill light added. total grain! 

One set of pictures was shot at ISO 200 so I cannot understand why so much noise is visible.

Thanks in advance for any help.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ntsml4qsd6wwyw/Screen%20Shot%202012-09-15%20at%2010.28.44%20AM.png

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r98rsaos5n01l05/Screen%20Shot%202012-09-15%20at%2010.20.33%20AM.png

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ypt0cd4jav8c4i/Screen%20Shot%202012-09-15%20at%2010.22.37%20AM.png

https://www.dropbox.com/s/62wpo2bvoldx2ne/Screen%20Shot%202012-09-15%20at%2010.23.03%20AM.png

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 15, 2012

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We believe you as far as what it is that is happening that the image starts out ok and then darkens, it is why and what to do about it that is in question.

Do you have any in-camera lighting or toning or highlight-compression settings set, anything that changes the image before it is written as a JPG?  Another reply, above, mentions a specific setting to check as DRO – perhaps Dynamic Range Optimization.  If you have this enabled it explains what you’re seeing and the remedy is to turn it off so that your camera is properly exposing the images. 

To reinterate, with DRO enabled, the camera is purposely underexposing your images then brightens the shadows in camera and applies noise-reduction before writing the JPG or embedding the preview.  This is only convenient if you are using camera-jpgs and only confusing if you are doing RAW with a non-Sony product such as LR or Photoshop from Adobe.   Using Adobe products you can brighten the shadows yourself and apply highlight compression and add noise-reduction, but because LR is written by Adobe not Sony, the adjustments are not automatic like they are in the camera.  You are in charge and you have to do them. If you need to underexpose your own images using a negative EV-setting to keep the highlights from clipping, then you can do that, yourself, but you'll know you've done that and will expect to do your own boost in exposure in LR and add more noise-reduction than normal.

If you still need us to look at things, please upload ORIGINAL raw files to www.dropbox.com and post the public download link so others can try and see if the results are the same for them.   It’s possible something else is going on like you've set your default settings to extra dark when you import the images.

For screen-grabs as you’ve used dropbox for, this time, it is easier for anyone reading your message if you just attach the screen-capture image to the message on the web version of the forum using the camera icon above where you type in your message on the forum.  This makes them visible within the message instead of having to open them in another browser window. 

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Sep 15, 2012 1
Community Beginner ,
Sep 15, 2012

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Thanks to both.

I did have Dynamic Range Optimization turned on and set at the highest setting.  I now know to keep that thing turned off.

Also, if it helps anyone else with the same issue, I used my original Sony CD and used their import software (Image Data Converter) and this program imports the photos similar to the Sony Image.  It doesn't really help with the Lightroom issue but I at least am able to see the images now as the camera shows them to me and I can convert to JPEG with more info in the file. 

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LEGEND ,
Sep 15, 2012

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mcrckrck01,

Assuming Sony's DRO is not doing something to the raw data itself, other than a reduced exposure I mean (and *probably* it isn't), it may still have the same value to use it in conjunction with Lightroom, as it does in conjunction with any other converter. The difference is that you will need to take responsibility for compensating for the underexposure in Lightroom. i.e. what it does is assess whether highlights will be blown out at normal exposure, and then "exposes to the left". It then records the fact that this has happened, so processing software can compensate. Lightroom misses the memo, so to speak, so your photo appears dark (and maybe overly contrasty). DRO is still good to have on in-camera *if* you are shooting high dynamic range shots where highlights should be protected if possible, *otherwise* it's better to turn it off.

Don't get me wrong: if you want your pictures to look in Lightroom, after initial raw conversion, more like they looked in camera, then you must turn DRO off. But if you want the full advantage that DRO offers, in Lightroom, then turn it on when it's appropriate, off when appropriate, and compensate in Lightroom, either manually (how I do it) or use ExifMeta/CollectionPreseter combo to auto-compensate in Lightroom, like your camera and Sony software does - more info available upon request.

Rob

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Sep 15, 2012 0
Mentor ,
Sep 17, 2012

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Rob Cole wrote:

But if you want the full advantage that DRO offers, in Lightroom, then turn it on when it's appropriate, off when appropriate, and compensate in Lightroom

As far as I can tell, the "full advantage" that DRO (and similar) offers, is functionally identical in the context of LR Raw development with what we get by carrying out normal exposure compensation (with the feature turned off). With the latter method, we do at least avoid building an extra, invisble, systematic, Raw vs JPG offset into what the camera histograms, blinkies etc are telling us about the metering of the scene - as well as, telling the auto exposure function of the camera.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 17, 2012

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If the camera does meter-based optimization of exposure, it must be 'On' in camera (to benefit). I don't know about Sony's DRO.

In the case of Nikon's ADL, the exposure optimization is not fixed (it's dynamic: based on measurement of reflected light), so there is value in using it regardless of raw converter / post-processor.

Normal exposure compensation just adds a fixed offset to what the camera thinks is reasonable exposure, but ADL is adding some "expose to the left" on top of that, to try to protect highlights. Otherwise, reasonable exposure means expose more to the right.

Does that not sound right? Or not make sense??

Rob

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Mentor ,
Sep 17, 2012

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Rob Cole wrote:

Normal exposure compensation just adds a fixed offset to what the camera thinks is reasonable exposure, but ADL is adding some "expose to the left" on top of that, to try to protect highlights. Otherwise, reasonable exposure means expose more to the right.

Does that not sound right? Or not make sense??

I think this is all getting a little OT for this particular thread, for which I apologise. I take no issue with what you say. If ADL/ DRO is doing something specifically clever with the metering, on a shot by shot basis, then yes that may be an extra convenience benefit. However, we should balance that against some possible extra inconvenience once we come into LR... for example, if the needed exposure boost becomes awkwardly large. LR cannot lift exposure linearly, so is IMO less appropriate for deliberate exposure offset techniques (e.g., so-called "ISOless" working) than some other converters are.

I'll just add that certain cameras are already doing their best to protect highlights shot-by-shot when metering in Matrix (Pattern, super-E-Z-psychic, whatever) mode - or if not, that is what the camera operator is there for (grin). I'll fully stand ready to be corrected about ADL and/or DRO, if it emerges that LR can make use of the resulting Raw file in any different way, leaving aside how this has affected the absolute exposure - and all which follows from that.

regards, RP

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Sep 17, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 17, 2012

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I definitely can see some merit in leaving it off all the time, especially if you primarily use Lr/ACR for post-processing. Probably better than leaving it on all the time, which is what a lot of people do until they learn to leave it off all the time . IMO, it should be a camera control instead of a menu option so it could be more easily toggled per scene. But, it's not... - definitely something to be said for simplifying shooting, and reducing the number of things to worry about before triggering the shutter - that's one of the great things about shooting raw anyway - you don't have to think about camera controls that are getting baked in. Cheers, Rob.

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People's Champ ,
Sep 17, 2012

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Just set your camera to Adobe RGB, and turn the contrast way down (in Camera) and your JPEGs will then look like your Raws and you won't stay up late at night worrying about it.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 17, 2012

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I always shoot with a modified neutral style - reduced contrast and enhanced saturation. I want to be able to see what tonal detail there is to work with, and what colors are present, not to make a result that looks good out of camera. Added bonus: my images usually look a lot better after Lr's default processing .

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New Here ,
Nov 01, 2015

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hi

do you have a solution to your question yet? my thumbnails turn dark one by one too after they finish importing. please help me out if you know how.

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Mentor ,
Sep 15, 2012

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You might try turning off "DRO" when you are shooting Raw.

As I understand it, this feature (each camera brand uses a different term for it) works by underexposing the image in absolute terms so as to reduce highlight clipping in the Raw sensor data. The camera then adds back custom processing later, to brighten the picture up to a normal looking JPG result. When it comes to Raw, certain software - but it seems, not LR - will automatically do the same.

Lightroom, where it lacks this special corrective function, simply sees the reality - an underexposed Raw file - with some increased shadow noise, as an expected consequence. This naturally tends to appear darker overall, and that takes some care to retrieve. Some methods are better than others, for doing that.

Disabling this special mode in the camera results in a more conventionally and properly exposed image with Raw values and highlight information that are closer to Lightroom's expectations.

Given good camera technique - avoiding both undesired highlight clipping AND systematic underexposure - optimal results are IMO more easily achieved, this way, out of LR.

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New Here ,
Sep 17, 2012

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Indeed something is happening. LR is changing the appereance of the RAW files, just as described (loads fine and after a second or two, it changes its looks).

In my case, it is applying some color tone and vignetting, it is not helping the look of the image at all.

I have been a user of LR since its first version and had not encounter this problem until recent. I shoot on Canon's 5DM2 and for what I have been able to tell from the posts, it is also happening to Nikons and Sonys. It is not a monitor issue since mine are also calibrated. I do architectural work and my camera settings have not changed, I shoot RAW with everything zeroed out and neutral. I have tried several options, including going back to Adobe's default settings without luck.

So far I have not been able to figure out what is wrong nor find an answer or explanantion for this issue.

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Sep 17, 2012 1
LEGEND ,
Sep 17, 2012

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Indeed something is happening. LR is changing the appereance of the RAW files, just as described (loads fine and after a second or two, it changes its looks).

...

So far I have not been able to figure out what is wrong nor find an answer or explanantion for this issue.

As has been explained in this thread numerous times, there is nothing wrong, this is the way Lightroom is supposed to handle RAWs. It shows the JPG preview embedded in the RAW file until it has time (usually a few seconds) to render its own version of your RAW photo, which of course looks different than the JPG preview.

I understand you do not like it. But you cannot turn off this behavior of Lightroom. You can adjust your Lightroom import preset to produce photos more to your liking. Or you can shoot JPG, in which case Lightroom does not change the appearance of the JPG created by your camera. Or you can use the manufacturer's software. You have an abundance of choices.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 17, 2012

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HAHPHAEK wrote:

I have been a user of LR since its first version and had not encounter this problem until recent.

I would think if this is the phenomenon everybody thinks it is, that you would have noticed it long ago.

HAHPHAEK wrote:

In my case, it is applying some color tone and vignetting, it is not helping the look of the image at all.

Are you saying there are actual (non-zero) vignette/color setting being applied, or you are just noticing a difference in vignetting and color/tone, but no non-zero settings have been applied.

Perhaps an example? (I've not noticed anything inexplicable...)

Rob

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New Here ,
Nov 26, 2012

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It is a problem for me. I shot a wedding and edited a handful of photos for a blog post, I have come back to the photos to continue editing and LR3 automatically contrasts my images. I click on the image I want to start editing and it becomes a lot more contrasted. This happens even with images I have already edited so I have no idea why this is happening. And it didn't happen the first time when I was going through them. Have you found out what to do about this? It is making my work load double now that I have to go over and re-edit my photos from my blog post.

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Nov 26, 2012 0
LEGEND ,
Nov 26, 2012

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You shouldn't have to re-edit anything, when you use LR correctly.

So please clarify what you mean when you say "I have come back to the photos to continue and LR3 autmoatically contrasts my images". Are you perhaps exporting and overwriting your original? Are you exporting the photos and then deleting them from LR? What exactly is your process here?

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LEGEND ,
Nov 26, 2012

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missclaire101 wrote:

I shot a wedding and edited a handful of photos for a blog post, I have come back to the photos to continue editing and LR3 automatically contrasts my images.

How were they edited originally? (for your blog post) i.e. using Lightroom, or some other software?

Lightroom knows nothing about in-camera (or in-other-software) edits, if that's what you mean (except ACR-based edits. e.g. Photoshop).

If edited previously in ACR-based editor (e.g. Lightroom), you should be able to continue where you left off...

R

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New Here ,
Nov 26, 2012

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My photos for my blog have been exported, but they are still being held in my collection for this wedding in lightroom. I have gone back to the folder to continue editing the other ones. Nothing has changed since I last worked on them in lightroom. I go into the collection they are under and click on a photo to begin and it makes the photo a lot more contrasted. It does this on photos I had already edited and exported that are still in the collection in lightroom. I have never had this problem before. I thought I was seeing things and compared the photo that was already exported to the one that lightroom contrasted and they are completely different photos now. So, yes, I have to re-edit it to look the way it originally exported to be like.

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New Here ,
Nov 26, 2012

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I have created a collection for the wedding I am working on. I have worked on some for a blog post and successfully exported them. I am now trying to complete them. I haven't deleted them from LR. I went back to the collection and when I click on any photos, both the originals and the photos that were edited and exported previously, contrast automatically. They do not look anything like the photo that was previously exported. I edit photos all the time in lightroom and notice this happened a couple of times in another bunch of photos I was sorting, but just re-edited them.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 26, 2012

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Photo should always look, in Lr, next time, same as last time, *unless*:

- there is a bug, or (perhaps more likely, especially if you're a newb):

- you've inadvertently applied some other develop setting since, e.g. via auto-sync, or inadvertently reset them...

- some other operator error I haven't thought of.

I've never had a problem as you describe that wasn't the result of operator error, unless I've misinterpreted what you are saying...

Cheers,

Rob

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LEGEND ,
Nov 26, 2012

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Missclaire101

It still sounds to me like you have exported your edited photo, and selected the option to overwrite the original.

Could you please confirm or deny that this is what you did?

Thanks.

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New Here ,
Nov 26, 2012

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No I do not think that is what I did. I still have the original file, when I exported the photo it was to a new folder.

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New Here ,
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I'm not sure then. Because I haven't done anything differently. I'm just trying to figure out how to fix it, so I'm trying to rack my brain why it is doing this.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 26, 2012

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Perhaps you could give a more complete example, with real filenames (including extensions) and foldernames...

My hunch is that this is an operator error (i.e. you are looking at an original raw, instead of some other copy..., or something like (or unlike) that...), but I could be wrong...

Cheers,

Rob

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New Here ,
Sep 17, 2012

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It is advisable to create a custom camera profile.

Nonetheless, go to the Develop Module and under Camera Calibration choose "Camera Neutral" instead of the Adobe Standard or any other you might have in there. In most cases, this will return some of the adjustments made to the large previews of your RAW files and help maintain the same appearance of your image when you first saw it. Try it to see if it helps.

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Sep 17, 2012 2
Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 17, 2012

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What reason is there to do anything but ignore the camera preview once the photo is imported into LR?

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New Here ,
Dec 10, 2014

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THIS has fixed it for me. I was having the same issue - three little dots would appear on the thumbnail and it'd correct *something*. I just changed the settings to camera neutral as suggested above which seems to have returned the image to how they look originally and there is no more 'loading', three dots, or alterations. It applied to my images shot in RAW on a Nikon D60.

Thanks.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 11, 2014

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Camera profile should NOT affect loading and dots.. - to Lr, one profile is the same as another (none have special performance benefits..).

As far as alterations, if you are no longer experiencing them, as much, then it's because you were shooting with neutral picture style in camera. Try shooting vivid in camera, and you'll need to change the Lr settings to "Camera Vivid" to "avoid the alterations" - Lr will still re-render after import, but the "alterations" will be less dramatic.

To be clear: Lr will always "correct something", but the closer your default settings are to those used in camera the less noticeable..

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New Here ,
Dec 23, 2015

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I had the same problem and your advice helped a lot. It was an issue with the camera calibration and camera neutral sets it back to how I shot it. Thank you very much!

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