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Lightroom image compression issue

Community Beginner ,
Jun 05, 2021 Jun 05, 2021

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Hi, I wounder if anyone couple please help me.
I shoot RAW and my images are huge, as an example image it is around 25mb when imported. i am editing the images on lightroom, the edits include some cropping, colour corrections and lighting adjustments. When i export these images they are averaging at around 2mb. some are less than 1mb.

My export settings are correct, its set to 100% quality and i have not resised the images at export. 

I dont know what to do. please help asap as im editing a wedding and i dont want to deliver images that cant be blown up.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 05, 2021 Jun 05, 2021

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When i export these images they are averaging at around 2mb. some are less than 1mb.

 

Not a problem. JPG is a compression technology. File size like this are normal.


File size does not tell you about the quality of the JPG. For more information, please read

http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/jpeg-quality

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 05, 2021 Jun 05, 2021

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My client tried to print with their own choice of lab and the file was too
small?

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LEGEND ,
Jun 05, 2021 Jun 05, 2021

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You need to give us details. Lots and lots of details.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 05, 2021 Jun 05, 2021

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This is exactly what they asked for. Apparently the file was too small.

There were two pictures. One started out at around 24mb the other started
at about 21mb. I edited them both in lightroom. Exported from lightroom to
my computer and the files are 1-2 mb.

I'm not really sure what other info I could give you. but if there is
anything you think I missed please ask and I will add anything I can

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LEGEND ,
Jun 05, 2021 Jun 05, 2021

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MB tells us nothing about size for print. Number of pixels does. 

A JPEG can be far smaller in how much space it takes up than a TIFF that has far less pixels and thus smaller for print output.

http://digitaldog.net/files/Resolution.pdf

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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LEGEND ,
Jun 05, 2021 Jun 05, 2021

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I'm not really sure what other info I could give you. but if there is anything you think I missed please ask and I will add anything I can

 

Here are some of the questions I can think of. I may ask other questions later.

  • What was the size, heaight and width in pixels, of the exported JPG? (don't care about file size in megabytes, it's irrelevant)
  • What size (in inches) was the photos supposed to be printed?
  • What was the exact error message when the print failed?

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 06, 2021 Jun 06, 2021

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so i cant tell you the exact error message as it was a client that was printing through their lab.

i have attached an example picture from a shoot from last week, I have read through the material and i think im starting to get my head around it. (slowly) so i have set the DPI to 300 and ignored the jpeg size on this one, If my customer wanted to print this as an 8x10 or maybe a 24x30 canvas for example, would they have any issues?Screenshot (2).png

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LEGEND ,
Jun 06, 2021 Jun 06, 2021

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You show one image that is 5682x3811, that should print fine at 30x24 (not 24x30). You show another image at 3882x2731, that should print fine at 10x8 (not 8x10). It may be a little small for 30x24, or maybe not.

 

So, in my opinion, it is imperative that the client ask the lab for the exact (and I mean EXACT) error message.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 06, 2021 Jun 06, 2021

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ah yes lol. numpty moment picking 2 images there. thought i was being really clever getting all the info up on the screen haha.

Thankyou so much for your help with this. I am finally starting to understand. 

xo

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Community Expert ,
Jun 05, 2021 Jun 05, 2021

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This is perfectly normal.

The whole point of the jpg format is to create small files, but image size depends largely on image content.

Images with a lot of sharp, busy detail (and noise) will have a relatively large file size, whereas images with predominantly flat, smooth, or out of focus areas will have a relatively small file size. So the file size of a jpg doesn't tell you anything about image quality.

If you're concerned about image quality, compare the exported jpg at 100% view with the raw file at 100% view.

When using 100 quality ( which is not 100% quality, but the maximum quality possible with a jpg), there should not be much difference.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 05, 2021 Jun 05, 2021

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@stefanie5EB8 wrote:

My export settings are correct, its set to 100% quality and i have not resised the images at export. 


You might what to see this:

http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/jpeg-quality

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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LEGEND ,
Jun 05, 2021 Jun 05, 2021

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I shoot RAW and my images are huge, as an example image it is around 25mb when imported

That is not huge.That's close to normal for current APC cameras, small for many Full Frame, itty bitty for Medium format.

 

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LEGEND ,
Jun 05, 2021 Jun 05, 2021

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Please post a screen shot of your Import screen. Use the insert photo button on this site, not the add attachment option (hated by most)

 

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 06, 2021 Jun 06, 2021

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Screenshot (1).png

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 06, 2021 Jun 06, 2021

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so i have posted the screen shot, 

When i googled the issue it says MB is relative to print quality, if a client wants to print a big 40inch canvas for examply they would need a 5mb image otherwise the print would look rubbish?

With the fact i shoot newborns and weddings, these are the sort of images most families want printed and displayed bit in their homes so i want to make sure they have the best quality possible

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LEGEND ,
Jun 06, 2021 Jun 06, 2021

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For a 40 inch print you need at least 8000 pixels over that dimension.

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 06, 2021 Jun 06, 2021

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sorry if im sounding thick, Im new to all of this side of things, 
If im not re-sizing or overly cropping shouldnt that be the case for all my pictures anyway? I shoot full fram d750 if that matters?

 

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Community Expert ,
Jun 06, 2021 Jun 06, 2021

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The D750 creates files that are 6000 x 4000 pixels.

This allows for printing at 150 ppi (6000 pixels/40 inches = 150 pixels per inch), which should be sufficient for a large print.

I do my own printing, and I routinely make 33 x 44" inkjet prints at 150 ppi with excellent results.

Check Resize to fit in the Export dialog, set Long side to 40", and the Resolution to 150.

You should also apply Output sharpening, there is a choice for matte or glossy paper, set Amount to Standard.

Then send the exported file to the printer.

 

When i googled the issue it says MB is relative to print quality

Not true, please read the posts by myself and others above.

I see that your image contains lots of flat/smooth areas, which explains the small file size.

Is the image sharp? Softness will also contribute to a small file size.

To assess sharpness, and apply sharpening, always view the image at 100%.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 06, 2021 Jun 06, 2021

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this is really helpfull thankyou 🙂

I have read the info and im starting to understand it now. so thats great. Thankyou and everyone that has helped me out with this. 

1 more question (sorry) is it an issue if i put the dpi at 300 instead of 150, or would you reccomend 150dpi as the main export setting?

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LEGEND ,
Jun 06, 2021 Jun 06, 2021

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If you export at full resolution (that is, with the "Resize to Fit" box unchecked), the ppi or pixels per inch (not dpi, there is no such thing for digital images) is irrelevant. It doesn't matter. You can set ppi to 5 or 5000, and you get the exact same result.

 

For your purposes, it may be best to leave "Resize to Fit" unchecked for now, unless that doesn't give you what you need. I would only check it if you need to Enlarge the export if it is too small for printing at the desired print size.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 06, 2021 Jun 06, 2021

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Perfect. You are a star. thankyou so much for your help 🙂

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LEGEND ,
Jun 06, 2021 Jun 06, 2021

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LATEST

The DPI setting is just a metadata tag.

Once again, an old article that is as pertinent today as too many years ago:

http://digitaldog.net/files/Resolution.pdf

 

Let's start here with some caveats and why I suggest always working in pixels. 

1. Digital images don't have any size other than the space they take up on some storage media. This size varies by many attributes even if the document has the same number of pixels: bit depth, layers, file type and possible compression, color space. It's not worth even considering this size due to so many differences. Digital images therefore should be considered in pixel density. And for this discussion I'm going to limit this to one axis (let's say the long axix) and the image is 1000 pixels. 

2. An analogy is necessary to discuss the resolution tag in digital images. If I'm 6 feet tall and every stride I take is 3 feet, and my friend is 5 feet tall and every stride he takes is 2 feet, when we both walk exactly 1 mile, we walked exactly a mile. That I walked with less strides (resolution) doesn't change that I walked exactly 1 mile (pixels). 

3. The resolution tag places no role in the 1000 pixel document in this respect: 1000 pixels at 100PPI and 1000 pixels at 100PPI are the same: 1000 pixels. In fact you can take a document that has 1000 pixles with a resolution tag of 100PPI, duplicate it and change the resolution to 1000PPI and the two are identical other than for metadata such as this resolution tag. And of course metadata like date/time the document was created and so forth. The two documents are 1000 pixels and the tag has no role and does nothing at this time. Set it for anything you want, as often as you want, it's the same digital image at this point. 

For all intent and purposes, the resolution tag plays no role. The number of pixels does. But wait you say, "I want to output the 1000 pixel image". To a print or on screen. OK, now we have a new size to consider! Let's work with a print. Computers are not too smart, they have no idea what you wish for a print size until you tell it. They do know you have 1000 pixels to use to make the print. What size print do you want? The answer comes about when you divide up the pixels you currently have (more about what you might have later) for this print. Now size can be inches, feet, meters, miles, CM, MM you get the point. Let's stick with inches for this story. You have 1000 pixels and the resolution tag is set to 100PPI. You simply need to understand simple math (division) or have a calculator once you accept you have 1000 pixels. At 100PPI (the tag), a print could (repeat could be), 10 inches. If the tag is 1000PPI, you're going to end up with 1 inch if you allow the computer to provide that division of your pixels. If the resolution tag is 23PPI, the size would be 43.4783 inches (here's where a calculator is useful). It's not if the tag is in MM or CM, or you alter the tag value. But in every case, the data is 1000 pixels. That is the critical number to know about first. The other number can always be changed so software can at this point understand a potential size for output. 

OK, so now Lightroom (or Photoshop or anything else) comes into play. And you ask for that 1000 pixel document to be output to 10 inches at 200PPI. What's a computer and software to do? You don't have 2000 pixels. So the software will interpolate and add more pixels out of thin air so to speak. Or you could reduce the number of pixels with interpolation. If you ask for output that requires 2000 pixels and you only have 1000 pixels, AND you give the software permission to make more pixels, it will. It will interpolate. It interpolates because you told it to interpolate and make more pixels due to the size relationship with the current tag. 

Now to the deal with sharpening. Until you print the image, it's still 1000 pixels. The PPI tag is moot. But you asked in the print module for a print at a specific size. And guess what, LR sharpens based on what it knows about the number of pixels (current or what you might, repeat might interpolate) and the size you asked for. Output sharpening is output resolution and size specific. So that tag is NOW used. But you still have and have always had a 1000 pixel document san's permission to interpolate adding or removing pixels. 

Work in pixels. Have a calculator nearby if necessary. Pretty much ignore the resolution tag until, if, you need to output that data and you require a specific output size or sharpening in the case of LR. Understand you can allow software to interpolate BASED on the resolution tag. If the tag is 100PPI and you tell LR you want 10 inches, the results are quite different than if the tag is 1000PPI and you tell LR you want 10 inches. You are in control. The software only looks at the tag if and when you tell it to look and use that tag to produce some size with the pixels you have.  

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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