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Lost detail between Develop and Library modules

Engaged ,
Jan 26, 2020

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I am post processing scanned b&w negatives. Managing the grain is critical. After making adjustments in the Detail panel, when the workspace is switched back to the Library module, the detail adjustments seem to dissappear and the image lookes grainer or with more texture or noise or whatever the correct term is between what I see in the develop module and then in the library module. What do you think is causing this? Does it have something to do with not checking smart previews on import?

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Lost detail between Develop and Library modules

Engaged ,
Jan 26, 2020

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I am post processing scanned b&w negatives. Managing the grain is critical. After making adjustments in the Detail panel, when the workspace is switched back to the Library module, the detail adjustments seem to dissappear and the image lookes grainer or with more texture or noise or whatever the correct term is between what I see in the develop module and then in the library module. What do you think is causing this? Does it have something to do with not checking smart previews on import?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 26, 2020

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My (simplistic) understanding is that the Develop module uses an entirely different preview made directly from the original file.

So it might be expected that detail/sharpness, etc, may not show in the previews created for the Library module.

Accept it that the Develop module is the best for showing your edits correctly.

(And always at 1:1 )

Regards. My System: Lr-Classic 9.4, Lightroom 3.4, Photoshop 2020 (21.2.1), Nikon DSLR, Windows-10.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 26, 2020

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I have not been aware if Lightroom creates previews for scanned files which are normally created in tiff or jpeg format?

Or does Lightroom just render the file and resize to the required resolution for display which is an Operating system process?

Regards, Denis: System iMac mid-2015, 5K 27” monitor, macOS10.15.6: LrC 9.4, Lr 3.4.1, Ps 21.2.2, Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Engaged ,
Jan 27, 2020

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Thanks for clarifying the advantage of viewing 1:1!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 27, 2020

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Yes, Library and Develop use different previews, and noisy and/or oversharpened images may display differently in Fit view.

But they should always display identically at 1:1, where one image pixel is represented by one screen pixel.

You should always evaluate noise and sharpness – and apply noise reduction and sharpening – at 1:1. Any other magnification will be inaccurate and misleading because the image has been scaled.

 

When editing scanned images, I recommend starting out in Photoshop, which has much better noise reduction (Reduce noise filter) than Lightroom.

You will no doubt have some retouching to do, removing dust spots and scratches, and this is also much better done in Photoshop, with the Spot healing brush or the Clone stamp. Lightroom does have a spot removal tool, which is mainly designed to remove sensor dust. It's somewhat awkward to use, and will slow Lightroom down to a crawl if you have hundreds or even thousands of dust spots in the image. 

Photoshop is also much better suited to invert color negatives. I saw your other thread about processing scanned color negatives, and I'll try to reply to that later today.

 

DdeGannes

Lightroom creates previews for scanned files as well, providing the same none-destructive workflow as for files from cameras.

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Engaged ,
Jan 27, 2020

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Thanks for your "detailed" response. Just to confirm, I will end up with a tiff file (or other raster image) when editing in Photoshop? Is there a way to perform non destructive edits in Photoshop for tone, detail and spot removal and still end up viewing edits in Lightroom?

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Mentor ,
Jan 27, 2020

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To the extent you've used nondestructive techniques within a Photoshop document edited out of LR, those changes are reversible / redoable and perhaps, may remain directly alterable. For example: a copy layer or a cloning layer or an adjustment layer could be later altered or simply deleted without affecting what's still there on the file's Background layer which initially came in from Lightroom. Layer blend mode, masking or BlendIf might be changed and then changed back. A Smart Object might have its smart filters / transforms, or other content settings updated; and so on. Then when the PS file is next saved, its compatibility preview gets updated accordingly. Lightroom Classic notices this PS file has been modified on disk, reads in its compatibility preview afresh, and then displays that - underlying its own live adjustments (if any) which, themselves, remain as they were. 

 

In summary: "pre-external edit" LR edits get burnt into the new file when you first send out an image for external editing, unless you've chosen to edit 'As Smart Object'. This file may be PSD or TIFF depending on settings within LR. Work done in PS onto that, is reflected (ongoing) in a separate LR image version, which is this new file re-imported.

 

But prior LR edits remain as they were, within the starting image version (typically, that still refers back to the camera original file).

 

LR processing for a new external-edit version shows all zeroed at first. But you can then make "Post-Photoshop" LR edits which are themselves live and nondestructive. Their effects are temporarily not visible when you go back into this PS file to further edit its contents; because they are not inside this PS file; they happen within the LR Catalog only. This is how LR can continue to freely alter them; and even can maintain different virtual copies showing different LR treatments all based on the same underlying, updatable PS document.

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Mentor ,
Jan 27, 2020

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I would expect the Develop module to offer a more reliable preview of your output (exported, printed). Since Develop is the environment in which you are assessing and potentially altering the Detail panel settings, this may not be a major restriction in practice IMO.

 

Library is the environment where many kinds of bulk image management and rapid browsing may happen, and hence where LR performance compromises are most to be expected AFAICT.

 

If you want to keep track within the Library panel of which images have, or have not, received satisfactory detail processing adjustments - you might consider adopting some sort of rating or colour labelling scheme. This can make obvious on the thumbnail what workflow stage each image has reached (also acting as the basis for image filtering, Smart Collection methods etc which can be of positive help in that workflow).

 

And the presence of such labelling / rating might greatly reduce the need to peer at 1:1 previews within Library, image by image.

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Engaged ,
Jan 27, 2020

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Great suggestion. Thanks!

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Engaged ,
Jan 27, 2020

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I should clarify that I am using a digital camera to "scan" the photos. So, I do have an opportuinity to create smart previews but since I am immediately refersing the tone curve, I unchecked smart previews. With regard to adjusting noise at 1:1, Lightroom offers up an enlarged window above the detail panel to assist with adjuustment. I can understand the point about comparing what I see in Library and Develop at 1:1, but adjustine detail at 1:1 is a challenge for this aging individual.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 27, 2020

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deleated, my bad

 

 

 

Just another Adobe customer; My Sys; APP: LRC 9.4, PS 21.2.1; CMP: WIN WS 16GB OS 10 v1909 (18363), mid 2015 MBPr 15” 16GB MACOS 10.15.6; 4K EXT DSPY; CAM: Canon 5D Mk III, Fuji X-T3

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