P: Ability to sync Lightroom Classic keywords with the Lightroom Ecosystem

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Keywords do not sync correctly: When added on the mobile app (iOS), they do not appear in LR classic and not in LR Web (I deleted the new LR CC immediately, this version does not make sense to me).
Same problem into the other direction: Keywords from LR classic do not appear on the mobile app. 
Attention: At this stage the whole keywording within the iOS app should not be used!

[DaveWRI]

I have more or less the same issue... and though I've read this chain, i'm still confused... so here is my version of the question

In Lr Classic I have gone to considerable trouble to get all the facial recognition and geotags and IPTC data correct and to set up keywords into nested groups / subgroups / sub-subgroups etc. All this information is also visible/changeable from Bridge.

Recently as a test of LR CC, I have imported a few photos (both scans and digital images) into LR CC to find that most of the LR Classic metadata appears to have gone….. the geotag and camera information are there, but all the other IPTC information such as photographer and image type have gone (or at least are not visible/editable). And the keywords are all but useless as the nesting has been stripped out; eg a LR Classic keyword of PLACES < Country < Town  becomes THREE keywords in LR CC (Places, Country and Town) with no relationship at all.

So finally I get to a question… what is the best way to get the good parts from LR Classic and CC?  Can I use Bridge with LR CC (and if so how?) Or better, can I use both LR Classic and CC simultaneously so that I can keep the great information in CLASSIC but have the neat sharing/editing CC bits?

Thanks for reading… and hopefully answering

Dave

[john beardsworth]

DaveWRI  wrote
So finally I get to a question… what is the best way to get the good parts from LR Classic and CC?  Can I use Bridge with LR CC (and if so how?) Or better, can I use both LR Classic and CC simultaneously so that I can keep the great information in CLASSIC but have the neat sharing/editing CC bits?

By treating LRCC as merely "Lightroom Mobile on the laptop". It doesn't do much more than Lightroom Mobile, and is just on a Mac/PC instead of your phone or tablet. Sync stuff from Classic, use LRCC on your laptop to work on smart previews and edit the things Adobe allow you to edit and sync, but don't treat it as anything more than a convenience. So keywords in LRCC are a waste of time, for example, as is most other metadata.

Bridge and LRCC are fundamentally different concepts. Bridge sees the originals as the files it finds in folders on your hard drives. The originals you see in LRCC are files held in the cloud, and any stored locally are more like a cache or a convenience for working offline. You can use Bridge before importing files into LRCC, or use Bridge to examine the local storage, but I find it hard to see why one would bother.

Adobe have stated that they do not recommend using both Lightroom Classic and Lightroom CC. That is not in the sense of "don't!" but more that they really don't encourage you to do so.

Also see LR + LR Classic Hybrid solution?

[DaveWRI]

Thanks John, this and the link have me sorted. I'll keep on using LR Classic as LR has no benefits for me as link my camera by cable to my mac and transferring from iCloud Photos is easy.

i'm a little lost as to what adobe is trying to do with Lr CC still, but i'll let them figure out why a cataloguing program doesn't need to catalogue:)

thanks again

Dave

[Califdan2]

I'd like to extend this "FEATURE REQUEST"  a bit. 

We need a way to designate options on Keywords in Classic that pertain to syncing.  Right now, when the Smart Collection used for syncing is first created (either by the user or automatically) all the keywords get included in the smart preview including all parent keywords and excluding all synonyms - regardless of which options are selected in the add/edit keyword screen.  What we need is the addition of a few more options on keywords such as "Sync this Keyword",  "Sync Synonyms",  "Sync Containing Keyword".  

One of the excuses Adobe has expressed in implementing keyword syncing is that keywords in LR Cloud are linear whereas in LR Classic they are hierarchical.  One solution would be to make them hierarchical in the LR Cloud eco-system as well but that may be too much to ask. 

Assuming they stay linear in one and hierarchical in the other, presents a problem as the same Keyword can appear in several hierarchies in Classic.  For example "Red" could be under "Birds" and under "Cars" in LR Classic but in LR Cloud there could only be one which would make syncing problematic.  Without going into all the logic permutations, one solution  is that in LR Classic, whenever you mark a Keyword to Sync, it checks to assure that another keyword with the same name but under a different parent is not also marked to Sync.  If so, it would deny the request to mark it for sync.  In this way, there would no longer be a case where a single keyword in LR Cloud could map to more than one keyword in LR Classic.  In our example, if one wanted both occurrences of "red" to sync, the user would need to rename one or both of them (e.g.  Red-Bird and Red-Car).

[toddf58817227]

I don't see why the keywords cannot be made the same between LR Classic and LR Mobile.  It's too difficult to do any more than moderate edits on the phone, but tagging is a great use of down time, if only they would sync back to Classic.  Heck, even if it doesn't have the same hierarchy, at least a tag can be set and easily re-tagged in classic.

[Lumigraphics]

Keywords are plain text. They are simply parsed differently in different apps.

keyword a|keyword b|keyword c

keyword a
          keyword b
                    keyword c

[Califdan2]

Even keeping the constraint that LR Classic uses hierarchical KW's and LR Cloud uses a linear (flat) KW structure, this problem can be solved.  There are, of course, some technical aspects but the main rationale I've heard so far for not doing this is the logical problem of how to map a hierarchical structure to a linear structure.  One solution is to convert LR Cloud to a hierarchical structure but putting that aside, here is one possible solution to that problem:

1)  In LR Classic, Adobe can add check boxes in the create/edit keyword dialog for

• "Sync this KW with LR Cloud"
• "Sync Containing KW's with LR Cloud"
• "Sync Synonyms with LR Cloud (would become regular KW's in LR Cloud)

2)  When a user ticks any of these boxes, LR Classic would check to assure that it is not redundant.  For example.  If you already ticked KW "Red" under "Flowers", and now you are trying to tick keyword "Red" under "Cars": it would reject the request as a duplicate.  By doing this, it will enforce a one to one correspondence between ticked KW's in LR Classic and KW's in LR Cloud - thus allowing two way sync

3)  If an image in LR Classic gets or loses a keyword with one or more of these ticked boxes, or the tick's get changed, that change can be placed in the Smart Preview (or XMP data) and can sync to LR Cloud.  This may include adding the KW to LR Cloud, adding an LR Cloud KW to the image or removing a KW from the image in LR Cloud

4)  If a user defined KW is added to an image in LR Cloud it could map to either no KW's in LR Classic or at the most to one "ticked" KW in LR Classic.  In the former case, LR Classic would create the new KW at the root level of the Hierarchy with "Sync this KW with LR Cloud" ticked.  In the later case there would be only 1 ticked LR Classic Keyword with that name that would be affected.

THIS CAN BE DONE if there is a will to do so at Adobe and the more people who "vote" for having KW's sync between the ecosystems, the more it will push Adobe to re-consider this.   

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

It is really easy to understand.
Adobe does not want you to manage your keyword. As far your use Classic, you are in control. As far you use mobile, you lose control on your asset. Everything is done you can't use Classic and mobile in conjunction to make your asset virtually "captive". 
So Adobe will not make it. You have the choice of using the old and slow Classic or the new and fast but weak mobile.
Pay may friend, pay.

[Antoine HLMN]

Once again, you’ve proved it’s not a technical issue but a marketing decision.

[Antoine HLMN]

Exactly

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

 I've switch to C1. Not perfect but the way the session works, the fact I can use it for as long I want, the way I can use my own cloud fit perfectly my needs.

[Antoine HLMN]

The cloud -despite its bug and limitations- is literally the only thing keeping me with LR. How do you work with cloud?

[john beardsworth]

Just storing your files in Dropbox-like folders (which C1, LR or any other app can do) and adopting a Bridge-style folder-based workflow isn't remotely the same as having a cloud-based mobile toolset like Lightroom iOS/Android/Web which lets you make adjustments and add (some) metadata.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I'm using iCloud, 2TB I can use the way I want for 10€/Mo.
It works. 
With C1 I can grab a session on my second computer.

About cloud, have a read here : https://www.on1.com/products/2020-preview/

Sync services arrive at the competitor. No closed cloud. No monthly fee (at least for the software), I don't know for the service sync

[toddf58817227]

I totally agree.  I can appreciate the artificial inteiligence and the assigning objects that Lightroom recognizes, but this is not perfect by any means.  I thought one of the objectives of Lightroom is to give the user control over their catalog and have the flexibility needed for their system, not impose Adobe's thinking.  Given Lightrooms intentional limitation, i will just have to work around that, though i don't like it, simply use the mobile cc version for just showing friends and family, not for working, because despite what they say, without keywords, it's useless to use mobile for working on assets.

[Antoine HLMN]

... so we’ll see a good LR update in October, I guess

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

It is such a pity not to be able to edit, tag keywords, identify faces.... on mobile while traveling for a long period and have these synced on the computer while coming back at home. It seems so obvious. Some features are not accessible on the mobile version (starting with print) and you cannot do them based on the info you / faces tagged! And adobe has intention of implementing this ? It means adobe has no intention to allow a proper mobile + desktop workflow! This questions why I should get the expensive cloud (mobile + classic) package... I’m a customer for lightroom from the beginning and was excited to implement a mobile workflow. What a disappointment!
Is thee any turn around? Any process to get into classic the info I took hours tu plug in the mobile version? Export and re import....

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I agree with all the above comments. I purchased Lightroom many years ago and kept upgrading until the subscription version came out. Then I sat for many years. Then maps stopped working. Then I started getting odd artifacts on my screen, so I updated to the subscription model. I was shocked to see that I could not syn key words. Missing this feature is huge. Like others I would like to organization on my mobile and do more detailed edit on the PC. If I can't I don't need the mobile version, so I may as well just move away from Lightroom to another organizer. Adobe please fix before I decided to move. As you know moving will be hard so once I do it I will not be coming back.

[rwechsler]

I syncronized some photos from LR Classic to LR CC including some keywords. Synchronization of these photos inclusive the keywords have been successful. All photos are available in LR CC (including the keywords).

But when I add some new keywords to the photos in LR Classic (which have been already synchronized with LR CC), the new keywords won't be synchronized with LR CC. Although these photos have been synchronized again after adding the keywords to them.

[johnrellis]

Unfortunately, that's a limitation of LR Classic sync. Please add your constructive opinion to this feature request:

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/keyword-bug 

and be sure to click Vote and Follow in the upper-right corner. That will make it a little more likely that Adobe will consider implementing the feature and you'll be notified when they do.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Would be great to have this feature in the near future. It cannot be a solution to do the sync of the keywords manually. 

[rwechsler]

Thanks, John, for your prompt answer. I added a comment and vote for the feature request.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Very disappointing. Adobe please - Official reply states:
(1) A hierarchical schema is not compatible for various workflow reasons with a flat schema - ergo there is no syncing of keywords between the two.  
(2) The two products are designed for different audiences and workflows.

I know that it is tiresome to get the "I'm a software engineer myself, how hard can it be" over and over again, but maybe it would make you think twice? So, flattening the hierarchy when syncing, or only syncing a specific level, would be a somewhat acceptable limitation, near or long term. Not wanting to do it is just a decision. Then say it like it is.

Worst problem is the second part of the answer, about the product being for different audiences and workflows. Wake up and listen to your users - Lightroom CC/Mobile has been adopted as a long awaited valuable addition to the professional workflow of your LIghtroom Classic users, making it possible to work when not on the main system, and to delegate tasks like rating and adjustments. For many, what you have already now solves year-long problems of not being able to share catalogues or use network drives. Now it even works when syncing only the previews rather than the full images! It is genious - Adobe, you struck gold here for the workflow of professionals, and CaptureOne or anything else does not have anything like this yet. This is your value-prop, and you are alone on the market. Unless your only plan with Lightroom is to be freeware for instagram posting, please stop claiming that one Lightroom has nothing to do with the other Lightroom, and make your program managers understand that your users do not share the view of them being different workflows. You are throwing away your advantage.

I wonder if this will be read.

  

[chrisb123456]

Thanks for making a compelling argument. It’s difficult to come up with another way to ask for these features without coming across as just complaining. You articulated this great. Hopefully someone is listening!. Where did you see Adobe reply that you quoted?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Thank you. The quote is from one of two answers to this thread, marked as official answers. The numbering is mine, though.