PSD to Lightroom + Preset = Colour-Problems

[martinb39743955]

Hello Folks,

i´m just getting mad...

If I put a preset on a raw-file in Lightroom- i get slightly different results, as if i put the same preset on the same file, but raw-processed (with the same options) in photoshop and saved as psd (and then loaded into LR).

The pure images (without preset) look identically in LR- the raw & the psd. But when I put the preset on them- there are slightly color-differences viewable.

I checked all points, used the same camera-profile, same color-rgb, etc.

I cannot figure out where the differences come from. Usually I make my skin-retouching in PS and than I like to put a preset on it in LR...But I just saw that there is a different output with the same preset on my psd-file. I preferred the look of the preset on the raw-file...

Is it in general not possible for LR to handle the files exactly as i described? Or is there a way to get the exact output of my psd-file?

Thanks for help!!

Martin

[Per Berntsen]

The presets will produce different results on raw files and rendered files like PSD, Tiff and Jpg because raw files and rendered files are fundamentally different. There's a lot more editing headroom in raw files.

I suggest that you apply the presets before you edit in Photoshop, or create new presets for rendered files, although you might not be able to get the exact same results that you get with raw files.

[martinb39743955]

Dear Per,

Thanks a lot for your answer!

I didn´t like that "preset-file-behaviour"- because it´s really a workflow killer between LR & PS in this case. But I have to accept it...and now I can sleep well

So I have to go backwards to get my wished result...beginning with the LR-preset and then going to retouch in PS...:)

[johnrellis]

To build on Per's reply: This issue is caused by the behavior of the Develop settings, not presets per se. The basic tone settings (exposure, contrast, highlights, shadows, whites, blacks) affect raws and non-raws (e.g. TIFF, PSD, JPEG) somewhat differently. See this thread for a discussion of the issue: Basic tone settings affect raw and TIFFs differently? .

[martinb39743955]

Thanks John!

Yes, this is the "core" of the problem (not the preset itself...).

From the view of the artists side - it can drive you mad...if you like to work with PS + LR...;)

[Todd Shaner]

martinb39743955  wrote

From the view of the artists side - it can drive you mad...if you like to work with PS + LR...;)

From the view of the engineer's side - Why would you NOT expect it to work this way?

The raw file contains unmodified camera sensor data with a very wide dynamic range. When a raw file is opened inside LR and a camera profile is applied to the raw data its dynamic range is significantly reduced. When you use Edit In PS the resulting PSD or TIFF file has that reduced dynamic range permanently baked into the image data. Clipped Shadow and Highlight areas are lost forever (Solid Black & White) and no longer recoverable!  This is why it's important to adjust the Develop module Basic panel controls to establish the desired shadow and highlight detail BEFORE using Edit in PS. The Basic panel default 0 settings are just a "starting point" and rarely provide sufficient recovery for most images. I would also suggest making sure the WB has been properly adjusted since it has an impact on the "overall" image data.

For images with very wide dynamic range (deep shadows and/or very bright highlights) you may also need to apply the local controls to "recover" clipped image data in those areas. Again the decision is entirely yours, but once you commit the image to Edit in PS clipped highlights and shadow areas are forever lost. The basic "objective" is to insure those image areas are not clipped.

These suggestions should in fact help reduce rendering differences when applying a Develop preset to the Edit in PS PSD or TIFF file versus the raw file. Just keep in mind that an Edit in PS image file created as I outlined above will probably NOT need much adjusting back in LR.

[martinb39743955]

Hi Trshaner,

thanks for your detailed answer! It is really helpful.

Usually I start my workflow in PS - using camera raw and then working with the raw-file as a smart object...making my fundamental retouching without changing brightness, contrast, color...I then wanted to create the look of a LR-preset on this. So I imported the psd-file into LR. The imported PSD-Picture now looks EXACTLY like the raw file (besides my PS-retouching)...

That´s why I expected- LR can handle it exactly like the raw. I used the same RAW-source & camera-profile in PS.

For me it would be logic that LR can handle this (for example- by grabbing the original raw-source I used in PS).

I know better now...BUT I wish it would be possible in some future-versions. This would be real flawless working between PS and LR.

[Todd Shaner]

martinb39743955  wrote

Usually I start my workflow in PS - using camera raw and then working with the raw-file as a smart object...making my fundamental retouching without changing brightness, contrast, color...I then wanted to create the look of a LR-preset on this. So I imported the psd-file into LR. The imported PSD-Picture now looks EXACTLY like the raw file (besides my PS-retouching)..

With a Smart Object file you should be editing the embedded or linked raw file inside PS using ACR. This includes using a Develop Preset. Doing so applies the preset's settings to the image file's raw data and NOT to a rendered smart object PSD file, which has vastly different image data constraints (as explained). LR knows nothing about the embedded Smart Object and treats the smart object PSD as a fully flattened and rendered image file (i.e. destructive edit).

To be honest I have required PS less and less with each new Process Version (2003> 2010> 2012) and to be honest rarely use Smart Objects. What are you applying to the Smart Object inside PS that can't be done in LR? Just curious.....