Strange Lens Correction Panel Behaviour

[yowayowa]

Does anyone know why adjusting the parameters in the Lens Correction Panel would make Lightroom suddenly choose to using an alternate (and incorrect) profile? Maybe just a bug?

Lens profile enabled. I click 'Setup: Default' and the correct profile loads, I then move either the distortion or vignetting slider and the incorrect profile is loaded. I took a screen reocrding but don't seem to be able to add it here.

These are regular DNG files, converted from ARW with Lightroom, not EXIF tweaked in any way. They have completely stadard metadata. Lightroom correctly identifies the camera and lenses in various metadata fields. Sony A7RII. The problem exists with a variety of Sony lenses (Batis, Sony G etc). The option to reset my lens profiles to defaults is greyed out, I guess that means that they are reset. I also emptied out the LensProfileDefaults folder to make sure that nothing odd had ended up set. No change.

I have only just noticed the issue. It could have come with in Lightroom 9.

Many thanks.

Lightroom 9.1

MacOS 10.14.6

[Just Shoot Me]

Show us a screen shot or upload your video to Utube and post a link.

Doesn't happen on my system with the few A7R3 images I have. In fact supposedly the proper lens profile is included in the RAW file and applied automatically as is the case with all mirrorless cameras and lenses for those cameras.

Enabling the Profile correction loads the Adobe created lens profile which may or may not be better in your eyes.

[yowayowa]

1 Correct Batis25mm Identified

2 Incorrect Lens Profile Shown to Begin With

3 Incorrect Lens Profile Still Shown When Panel is Enabled

4 Default Chosen - Correct Profile Shown

5 Move a Slider and the Wrong Profile Appears Again

[Jao vdL]

When it says that a built-in lens profile is applied, you should not select another lens as what will happen is that you get lens corrections applied doubly. For some cameras Adobe made the bad decision to always apply lens corrections. You cannot turn them off. I did not think this happens to files from Sony A7RII cameras though. I know it happens to my Z7 files.

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/disable-built-in-lens-profile

[Jao vdL]

Should have read Just shoot me's post as apparently this happens with all the mirrorless Sony's too. Still you cannot turn off the built in lens profile. It will always get applied no matter what you select in addition.

[yowayowa]

Thanks. But that isn't the issue here.

I choose 'default' and the correct profile loads. I move a slider and the incorrect profile returns. The panel has never behaved like this before. Only recently. I wonder if i should reinstall lightroom.

[Jao vdL]

Whenever you select a profile on these files, a profile will get doubly applied. You CANNOT turn off the built in profile. It simply cannot be disabled whatever you do in that panel. This is very confusing but the way it is with that panel. I agree that it shouldn't switch the double profile when you touch the other controls and that likely is a bug but you simply shouldn't apply another profile as the built-in profile that the camera writes to the raw file is always applied even if you select another one there.

[yowayowa]

Many thanks. I do understand what you are saying about the built in profiles. You have clearly found another issue that might be looked at by Adobe. I'll try and focus on this issue for the moment. This does seem to be a recent change in behavior to me. Thanks you though.

[yowayowa · Accepted solution]

Neither Lens Profile 'reset to defaults' or emptying the LensProfileDefaults folder fixed the issue.

I think I have found a solution, though.

'Reset all default develop settings' in preferences. This will not clear up the issue until you then reset the affected images, for me around two months of imports. Then the Lens Correction Panel is back to normal.

Oh well. At least that appears to be it. Sorry to post ^^

[Todd Shaner]

"When it says that a built-in lens profile is applied, you should not select another lens as what will happen is that you get lens corrections applied doubly."

Jao, when I click on the Lens Corrections panel's "i" information icon (in lower-left) for any lens shot with a Sony camera it says "built-in lens profile for chromatic aberration" and nothing more. So it would appear a LR lens profile needs to be applied to correct Distortion and Vignetting. Can anyone else confirm this?

[Jao vdL]

That probably means that there is no lens correction applied which is great. I thought with all mirrorless cameras it would have lens corrections done too. With my Z7 for example it says this and it is terribly annoying that you can't turn this off.

[yowayowa]

My Sony and Sony-Zeiss E-Mount lenses appear to be for Chromatic Aberration only also Todd.

[Just Shoot Me]

What I think, suspect, that is really telling us is that Sony is to lazzy to create a lens correction profile like the other camera makers do for mirrorless cameras.

[Todd Shaner]

That's not the case! On the Sony website it states as folows:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00018031

Lens Compensation is an in-camera optical correction feature. It comes with three options: Shading, Chromatic aberration and Distortion. When these functions are activated in the setup menu, the camera will attempt to reduce the effects based on the profiles of some Sony® lenses.

NOTES:

• Even though lens compensation will be applied to the JPEG file when shooting in RAW+JPEG, the RAW file remains uncompensated.
• Use the Sony Image Data Converter if you want the corrections to be applied to the RAW file. The converted files can then be saved as lossless TIFF or as easy to handle JPEG file. Third party RAW converters might not be able to apply the corrections to the RAW file.

In addition, all E-mount lenses are compatible with the Lens Compensation feature. The ILCE7 Series is also compatible with this feature even if an A-mount lens is attached (sold separately). However, some A-mount lenses are not compatible. For more information on lens compatibility, refer to this website.

So it appears Adobe for some reason has created their own lens profiles for Sony cameras. This may have been done to allow user adjustment of Distortion and Vignetting correction Amount setting and to simply disable it. I'm quite surprised at the lack of information available concerning Sony lens profiles and what is proper usage with LR and other raw converters. I examined a number of Sony A7 raw+JPEG file pairs and it's clear the Sony built-in Distortion and Vignetting corrections settings are NOT applied to the raw file inside LR. This can only be accomplished by applying an Adobe supplied or user created lens profile in the Lens Corrections panel.

[Jao vdL]

For Adobe to apply it, I understand the lens profile has to be embedded in the raw file and it has to be in some sort of standard format. Perhaps Sony doesn't do that and relies on their raw converter having the profiles built in?

[Todd Shaner]

The lens profile appears to be embedded in the raw file (see below). Whether or not it's in a standard format I have no idea. Regardless, if it deviates from "standard" built-in lens profiles why hasn't Adobe provided guidance on this and how to use it? Micro 4/3 cameras were the first to use built-in lens profiles, but even with those camera the lens profile doesn't always contain distortion and/or vignetting lens correction data. So it looks like the user will need to check the 'i' built-in lens profile information to determine what is corrected with the built-in lens profile and what needs to be corrected with the LR lens profile corrections tool. Below is an example of two different built-in Fuji lens profiles.

It gets even stranger when looking at cameras like the Canon Powershot G9x MKII, which has no LR lens profile available (shows as 'Built-In in Lesn Profile selector). The built-in lens profile info (i icon) for this camera with a fixed zoom lens says distortion and chromatic aberation only. However, after examining hundreds of pictures shot with this camera I see no vigenetting–So where and how is it being corrected?

[yowayowa]

good research Todd

[mk29376512]

Yes you're right, and also it's very easy to see this working for yourself if you have lenses with considerable distortion (most zooms), simply toggle the profile on and off and you will clearly see it being correctly applied

[mk29376512]

Hi, I get the same behaviour and understand exactly what you mean and have explained in your post, this seems like a bug, or at best an unexpected behaviour, the profile should definitely not change when you move a slider. Have you reported it as a bug?