Highlighted

Trouble syncing manual exposures: auto tone confusion?

Engaged ,
Jun 07, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I'm shooting 360° panoramas, stitching multiple photos for each one. I have all settings manual (WB, f stop, shutter speed, ISO). My workflow is shooting 4 shots around, and then one shot down at the ground.

When I make develop adjustments to one of the around shots, and then sync images, the down shot gets darker, even though I can confirm that exposures were locked down, and develop settings are exactly the same (for exposure, contrast, etc).

When I advance from an around shot to down shot, I see LR making the image darker; see video linked below. I don't think this is the common preview-build thing that happens on import and sometimes causes confusion; for one thing, the shift doesn't happen when going from down shot to around shot, only the other way around:

pano with darker nadir - YouTube

I'm wondering if the auto setting in tone panel might have something to do with this; that's a feature I've never used and am not familiar with. In the example at video link, I don't think auto is in play, because the develop setting are the same for all shots. And auto would only be enabled if I click on the auto button, right?

I want all exposures to be the same, as shot, but with the exact same develop settings for all images. Anyone have any ideas what's going on?

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by Todd_Shaner | Adobe Community Professional

jimtron  wrote

No, it's a significant issue because my exports show darker nadir, so I can't get seamless stitching. Even after resetting prefs, resetting develop settings, re-building 1:1 previews after adjusting highlights, etc. I am not able to export TIFs with matching nadir.

Without a reference (white balance card) in both the nadir and surround image with the same measured scene referred lighting it's difficult to determine the relative brightness difference. However, PTGui easily reveals this difference when trying to stitch the images. Following what you're seeing with the export files in PTGui I gave this some more thought and we do have two issues:

1) The nadir image file Develop preview and Library previews do not match unless 1:1 Previews are built after applying the Develop settings. This is what has been reported in the Photoshop Family forum and demonstrated with my Canon 5D MKII CR2 files shot using the same EF 8-15mm F4L Fisheye lens. This is clearly a bug since 1:1 Previews should not have to be built for reviewing image files at Fit view in the Loupe. Why this only happens with the fisheye lens when shooting nadir image files still remains a mystery.

2) Even with 1:1 Previews built so the Library and Develop module previews match the exposure level in the nadir image file is lower (darker) than the surround image file. This one I can explain as follows.

You are shooting theses panorama images with the Canon EF 8-15mm F4L Fisheye lens set to 12mm. This reveals the image circle in the four corners as full black level image data, which remains the same regardless of subject or light levels. Starting with Process Version 3 (2012) all of the Tone controls are "image adaptive" with Recovery and Fill replaced by Highlight and Shadow controls. These controls act differently on the image data based on the exposure level and dynamic range of the image data. The surround image files have a wide dynamic range extending well into highlight clipping (+100% level). Conversely the nadir images have a much lower dynamic range with most of the image data falling below the 50% Histogram level. ERGO: Nadir images render differently (i.e. darker) to the Highlights control than surround images.

One solution is to use Process Version 2, which only has two image adaptive controls (Recovery and Fill). I tested this below and it appears to provide better exposure matching than Process Version 3-5. The downside is that Process Versions 5 is much better at recovering highlights and shadows as well as better noise reduction. A better solution is to set the Canon EF 8-15mm F4L Fisheye lens to 15mm, which will create 180° diagonal full-frame images without dark corners. Panorama image file sets shot with the full-frame 15mm setting should not exhibit any of these issues. Is there a specific reason why you are using the 12mm focal length?

Process Version 5 Versus 2 (2010).jpg

Views

1.8K

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more

Trouble syncing manual exposures: auto tone confusion?

Engaged ,
Jun 07, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I'm shooting 360° panoramas, stitching multiple photos for each one. I have all settings manual (WB, f stop, shutter speed, ISO). My workflow is shooting 4 shots around, and then one shot down at the ground.

When I make develop adjustments to one of the around shots, and then sync images, the down shot gets darker, even though I can confirm that exposures were locked down, and develop settings are exactly the same (for exposure, contrast, etc).

When I advance from an around shot to down shot, I see LR making the image darker; see video linked below. I don't think this is the common preview-build thing that happens on import and sometimes causes confusion; for one thing, the shift doesn't happen when going from down shot to around shot, only the other way around:

pano with darker nadir - YouTube

I'm wondering if the auto setting in tone panel might have something to do with this; that's a feature I've never used and am not familiar with. In the example at video link, I don't think auto is in play, because the develop setting are the same for all shots. And auto would only be enabled if I click on the auto button, right?

I want all exposures to be the same, as shot, but with the exact same develop settings for all images. Anyone have any ideas what's going on?

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by Todd_Shaner | Adobe Community Professional

jimtron  wrote

No, it's a significant issue because my exports show darker nadir, so I can't get seamless stitching. Even after resetting prefs, resetting develop settings, re-building 1:1 previews after adjusting highlights, etc. I am not able to export TIFs with matching nadir.

Without a reference (white balance card) in both the nadir and surround image with the same measured scene referred lighting it's difficult to determine the relative brightness difference. However, PTGui easily reveals this difference when trying to stitch the images. Following what you're seeing with the export files in PTGui I gave this some more thought and we do have two issues:

1) The nadir image file Develop preview and Library previews do not match unless 1:1 Previews are built after applying the Develop settings. This is what has been reported in the Photoshop Family forum and demonstrated with my Canon 5D MKII CR2 files shot using the same EF 8-15mm F4L Fisheye lens. This is clearly a bug since 1:1 Previews should not have to be built for reviewing image files at Fit view in the Loupe. Why this only happens with the fisheye lens when shooting nadir image files still remains a mystery.

2) Even with 1:1 Previews built so the Library and Develop module previews match the exposure level in the nadir image file is lower (darker) than the surround image file. This one I can explain as follows.

You are shooting theses panorama images with the Canon EF 8-15mm F4L Fisheye lens set to 12mm. This reveals the image circle in the four corners as full black level image data, which remains the same regardless of subject or light levels. Starting with Process Version 3 (2012) all of the Tone controls are "image adaptive" with Recovery and Fill replaced by Highlight and Shadow controls. These controls act differently on the image data based on the exposure level and dynamic range of the image data. The surround image files have a wide dynamic range extending well into highlight clipping (+100% level). Conversely the nadir images have a much lower dynamic range with most of the image data falling below the 50% Histogram level. ERGO: Nadir images render differently (i.e. darker) to the Highlights control than surround images.

One solution is to use Process Version 2, which only has two image adaptive controls (Recovery and Fill). I tested this below and it appears to provide better exposure matching than Process Version 3-5. The downside is that Process Versions 5 is much better at recovering highlights and shadows as well as better noise reduction. A better solution is to set the Canon EF 8-15mm F4L Fisheye lens to 15mm, which will create 180° diagonal full-frame images without dark corners. Panorama image file sets shot with the full-frame 15mm setting should not exhibit any of these issues. Is there a specific reason why you are using the 12mm focal length?

Process Version 5 Versus 2 (2010).jpg

Views

1.8K

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Jun 07, 2019 1
LEGEND ,
Jun 07, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Basically making any edits prior to the merge is of no value (Julieanne Kost's Blog | Tips for Creating Panoramas in Lightroom CC )

Oh, some. situations might. call for some. exp mods if the software is having problems stitching ( I cannot prove that) yes, some mods carry over (see above link)

Incidental, as a P.S.  read that link paying attention to what is said about edits to a particular frame, carrying over the edits to the other frames, and choosing that one as most selected.

Unless. you changed camera develop defaults (  Adobe Lightroom - Customising Camera Defaults  )the nope LR should not be making unasked for edits.

Just another Adobe customer; My Sys; APP: LRC 9.4, PS 21.2.1; CMP: WIN WS 16GB OS 10 v1909 (18363), mid 2015 MBPr 15” 16GB MACOS 10.15.6; 4K EXT DSPY; CAM: Canon 5D Mk III, Fuji X-T3

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 07, 2019 1
Engaged ,
Jun 07, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

davidg36166309  wrote

Basically making any edits prior to the merge is of no value (Julieanne Kost's Blog | Tips for Creating Panoramas in Lightroom CC )

I'm not using LR photo merge; I'm exporting TIFs to stitch with an app called PTGui. I would prefer to make adjustments with LR raw, and not after images have been converted to TIF.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 07, 2019 0
LEGEND ,
Jun 07, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Ah, completely different set of problems.

By default, until you tell it to,  lightroom should not be making any develop mods other than a bit of sharpening. The profile used, should not be treating any images differently. And, I assume you are not applying any presets, etc, at export.

One thing you could look at, is a standard or general lightroom preset named zeroed (zero?) that should undo any mods.

Just another Adobe customer; My Sys; APP: LRC 9.4, PS 21.2.1; CMP: WIN WS 16GB OS 10 v1909 (18363), mid 2015 MBPr 15” 16GB MACOS 10.15.6; 4K EXT DSPY; CAM: Canon 5D Mk III, Fuji X-T3

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 07, 2019 0
Engaged ,
Jun 07, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

davidg36166309  wrote

Ah, completely different set of problems.

By default, until you tell it to,  lightroom should not be making any develop mods other than a bit of sharpening. The profile used, should not be treating any images differently. And, I assume you are not applying any presets, etc, at export.

One thing you could look at, is a standard or general lightroom preset named zeroed (zero?) that should undo any mods.

I'm able to use the reset button to zero out the photos. But I still can't figure out why I'm getting the darkening shift on the last image.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 07, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 08, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Something different about the way LR is rendering the nadir shot. Try closing and restarting LR, Build 1:1 Previews in the Library module for all images. Does the nadir shot also look darker in the Library module?

With your settings still applied to the ARW files Export the two in the video to DNG file format and post Dropbox or other file sharing site. We can take a look and see what's different.

The Auto button is white when NOT applied and black when it has been applied. This has nothing to do with this issue if you aren't clicking on it.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 08, 2019 0
Engaged ,
Jun 08, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thanks for the reply Todd. I restarted LR and built 1:1 previews, but am still getting the visible shift when I toggle between nadir shot and of the others (this happens when in develop mode), and nadir shot still appears significantly darker (even though dev settings are identical, as well as exposure).

And thanks for clarification about auto button.

I've uploaded the two dng files to link below, would really appreciate you taking a look.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZLXtspc2gJeJyFvb8qdIF7xEt-FuyG2W

- Jim

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 08, 2019 0
LEGEND ,
Jun 08, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Hi Jim

It’s because the down shot is under exposed to begin with. If you re-set you will find hardly any information to the right of the histogram. So pulling back the highlights makes it even darker.

These are the suggested auto settings to even out the photos – see image below.

UnderExp.jpg

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 08, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 09, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

jimtron  wrote

Thanks for the reply Todd. I restarted LR and built 1:1 previews, but am still getting the visible shift when I toggle between nadir shot and of the others (this happens when in develop mode), and nadir shot still appears significantly darker (even though dev settings are identical, as well as exposure).

I examined the EXIF data in both files and they have the same camera and LR settings, so that's not the issue! They both are also the same Exposure so that's not the issue. Here's a comparison that demonstrates what you're seeing.

Nodal Image Comparison.jpg

1) Importing the two files with Embedded & Sidecar Previews selected they look identical in the Library module and show no exposure difference!

2) Moving to the Develop module shows the image files with your settings applied. The nadir shot looks the same as the other shot for a less than a second and then becomes darker. This flash difference indicates an issue with the file settings.

3) Clicking on the master Reset button at the bottom of the Develop module makes the two images appear identical in exposure and very similar to the embedded preview rendering. Next I applied Develop settings to the first image file (Newberry_190607_011.dng) and then used the Sync button to apply the same settings to the nadir file (Newberry_190607_014.dng). They look identical!

I can't explain WHY this is happening, but try resetting ALL of the files in the set, reapply adjustments to one of the image files, and use Sync to copy those settings over to the other files. See if that "fixes" the issue.

For further troubleshooting tell us your LR and OS version numbers and if you're applying any Develop presets in the Import module or the Develop module. Any other information you can think of that might help determine the cause is appreciated. Also has this happened with other panorama sets shot using the same camera and lens?

Nodal Image Comparison-2.jpg

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 09, 2019 0
Engaged ,
Jun 09, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

99Jon: "It’s because the down shot is under exposed to begin with."

I don't mind if the ground is dark, I just need it to exactly match in all shots, so it will stitch seamlessly. If you see the top photo in Todd's last post, you'll see what I mean; the issue is that the down/nadir shot is not matching the other shots.

Todd: thanks for checking that out and confirming the issue! I too have been able to reset the files and get them to match, but I still can't get develop sync to match. I want to adjust color, contrast, highlights and shadows before I stitch these in external app. I can't get develop sync to work as it should.

I'm on MacOS 10.14.5, LR 8.3.1 CR 11.3. I usually do apply develop presets upon import, and apply further development settings after import.

This issue is happening pano sets shot with 2 different camera bodies, but same lens (Canon 8-15mm). I have sets shot with Canon 5DMIII that have issue, and also Sony A7RIII.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 09, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 09, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

jimtron  wrote

Todd: thanks for checking that out and confirming the issue! I too have been able to reset the files and get them to match, but I still can't get develop sync to match. I want to adjust color, contrast, highlights and shadows before I stitch these in external app. I can't get develop sync to work as it should.

It works on my Windows 10 system using LR 8.3.1 with the Export DNG files you uploaded. In my screenshots the reset and synced setting images appear to have the same exposure as expected.Try those as well and also the ARW files again using ONLY the Basic panel settings and no other settings or presets. Exactly how are you syncing the settings? Also are you editing the ARW files in ANY other software?

Please upload the two original ARW files and two CR2 files from your 5D MKIII that exhibit the issue. I'll take a closer look as to the cause. BTW- I have the same Canon EOS 8-15mm F4L fisheye zoom lens, which I use with Canon 5D MKII and 6D cameras and never experienced this issue.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 09, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 09, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I think I may have found the cause of this issue. A similar issue was reported at the below link when "Use Smart Previews instead of Originals for image editing" is checked.

Manage Workspace - Get Satisfaction

Make sure the below option for "Use Smart Previews instead of Originals for image editing" is NOT checked. According to Simon Chen, Adobe Engineer the issue affects images with OR without smart previews created . Close and restart LR and try editing again.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 09, 2019 1
Engaged ,
Jun 09, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Just looked at that preference, that "use smart previews instead..." is NOT checked.

"Try those as well and also the ARW files again using ONLY the Basic panel settings and no other settings or presets. Exactly how are you syncing the settings? Also are you editing the ARW files in ANY other software?"

I don't have the .arw files anymore for that first set, only the .dngs. Though I do have an .arw set for another 360 set.

The preset was only used on initial import; I'm able to reset the files and get them to match. But when I do the develop sync, the nadir gets darker (without adding a dev preset). I'm only using basic dev settings, no presets. Before I was syncing "remove chromatic aberration," but not anymore; with this new .arw set (posted files, link below), I only used basic dev settings.

I'm syncing the settings by selecting the developed image, then command-clicking on the nadir image, and then holding down option key and then clicking on "sync settings" button.

I'm not using any other software (will be using PTGui AFTER getting files to match properly).

I've uploaded two dng files shot with MDIII and same 8-15mm lens (I don't have the cr2s). These files are experiencing same issue, nadir darker after develop sync (remove chromatic aberration NOT checked, no presets used, only basic dev). Actually, I'm not positive if this pair is showing nadir darkening problem...I think so.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EtNVrIpiq-kcldrsijyYkMJ5j0lhPpIu

Here's an .arw pair, a set I haven't yet converted to dng. I'm no longer seeing the visible shift when I toggle between the images, but when I sync basic dev settings, the nadir is getting darker.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oj-rH6HIpINaTXherYM125jTzBwjuS02

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 09, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 10, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

jimtron  wrote

I've uploaded two dng files shot with MDIII and same 8-15mm lens (I don't have the cr2s). These files are experiencing same issue, nadir darker after develop sync (remove chromatic aberration NOT checked, no presets used, only basic dev). Actually, I'm not positive if this pair is showing nadir darkening problem...I think so.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EtNVrIpiq-kcldrsijyYkMJ5j0lhPpIu

I can see the difference in the nadir shot with the Library preview slightly lighter than the Develop preview. Using Library> Previews> Build 1:1 Previews fixes the difference. There's something wrong with the way these DNG files are being created, which is why I need the original CR2 and ARW raw files to determine what's causing this issue. It may be a coincidental separate issue.

jimtron  wrote

Here's an .arw pair, a set I haven't yet converted to dng. I'm no longer seeing the visible shift when I toggle between the images, but when I sync basic dev settings, the nadir is getting darker.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oj-rH6HIpINaTXherYM125jTzBwjuS02

You uploaded the DNG file copies and not ARW files. I see the same behavior as the Canon CR2 DNG files with the Library preview slightly lighter than the Develop preview. Using Library> Previews> Build 1:1 Previews fixes the difference. Again, I need the original CR2 and ARW raw files to test so I can determine what's causing this issue.

One thing you can try which may fix this issue is to reset your LR Preferences file as outlined at the below link. This file can become corrupted and cause many unexplained issues like this one. Simply moving it to the desktop with LR closed will allow restoring it if the issue persists. When you restart LR it will create a new Preferences file with the default settings. For test purposes do NOT change any of the Preference files settings, Import, or Export module settings, etc. Try editing some of the raw file panorama sets making sure to click on the Develop module RESET button BEFORE applying and syncing any adjustments. Better yet copy some panorama nadir and surround raw file pairs to a separate folder and Import and edit those separate file copies. This will insure you are working with a "clean file" that has no presets or other settings applied from previous editing in the Catalog's History.

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-reset-lightrooms-preferences/

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 10, 2019 0
Engaged ,
Jun 10, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thanks again Todd, for your help with this.

Yep, I mistakenly exported those .arw's as .dng's, but here are the actual .arw files (including sidecar files):

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UvdKVFot1Wsit5Pm7aAeESs9UD7yV4Tf

I'll follow your instructions for resetting preferences and testing.

- Jim

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 10, 2019 0
Engaged ,
Jun 10, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I reset preferences (and didn't change any prefs after reset), and re-imported the two .arw files that I linked to above (after moving duplicate files to a new folder). I was careful to not add any develop preset, metadata etc. upon import. I also built new 1:1 previews after importing, and reset dev just in case.

Then I made dev adjustments, synched, and nadir still gets measurably darker.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 10, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 10, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

The ARW files exhibit the same issue with the nadir shot Library preview slightly lighter than the Develop preview. Again, Using Library> Previews> Build 1:1 Previews fixes the difference. Not sure why that's needed. Also when I Import the files if I have build 1:1 Previews selected there s no difference between the Library and Develop module previews. This happens with or without the XMP files present so it has nothing to do with the settings.

Let me know if resetting your Preferences "fixes" the issue. The LR update process also updates the Preferences file with new features such as the Texture control, which can cause it to become corrupted. It's very possible we both may have the same Preferences file corruption. When did you first notice this issue and was it after a specific LR update?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 10, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 10, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I reset my Preferences file and the Newberry_190607_182.arw file difference between the Develop and Library module remains the same. I suggest creating a 'Problem' report at he Photoshop Family forum.

Post a Conversation | Photoshop Family Customer Community

Include the download link for the Newberry_190607_182.arw and Newberry_190607_179.arw file pair that exhibit the issue. Show the steps required with just Basic panel settings to duplicate the issue using just these two files. Include your OS and LR version. Copy the link to this post in your report "for further information" and place a link to the new report in a reply back here. I couldn't duplicate the issue using Sony A7 RIII ARW files downloaded form Imaging Resources, but clearly these two files exhibit the issue.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 10, 2019 0
Engaged ,
Jun 10, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thanks Todd, I will create the problem report on that forum.

By the way, I think I've pinpointed the specific development setting that causes the problem: highlights. In other words, If I reset the files and only adjust highlight slider, that seems to cause the darkening when syncing. And if I make several other dev adjustments, but leave highlight slider at 0, I don't get the darker nadir.

That shouldn't be normal behavior, right?

ETA: link to post at Photoshop Family I just made:

Lightroom develop sync not working properly | Photoshop Family Customer Community

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 10, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 10, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

jimtron  wrote

By the way, I think I've pinpointed the specific development setting that causes the problem: highlights. In other words, If I reset the files and only adjust highlight slider, that seems to cause the darkening when syncing. And if I make several other dev adjustments, but leave highlight slider at 0, I don't get the darker nadir.

Jim thanks for creating the problem report. That is similar what I found at the post concerning using Smart Previews. Manage Workspace - Get Satisfaction

"What happens is that when this preference is checked (for speed up image walking and editing in develop), Lightroom would try to only load and edit a Smart Preview quality (even when SP is not present) negative when possible. It would only load the full resolution original when one zoom into 1:1 or greater."

"Simon, this image file and the one at the LR Forum post both have a LR Histogram with the majority of the image data shifted below the 50% level with no edits applied. With both of these images simply setting both Highlights and Shadows to 0 (with all other adjustments still applied) corrects the issue. I've never seen this using Smart Previews or full-size Lossy DNG files when the LR histogram has substantial image data above the 50% level. Just an FYI."

And at the next post I made another observation shown below. It seems to be specific to Sony A7-9 cameras, but Adobe Engineering has not commented further. I know you're not using Smart Previews, but it's an indication that the Library preview is being built using lower resolution image data for some unknown reason.

UPDATE: I tired duplicating this issue using Canon 5D MKII image files both properly exposed and underexposed. In ALL cases using Smart Previews for editing I was NOT able to reproduce the issue. A quick look shows both the image file here and the one in the LR Forum post were shot with a Sony ILCE-9 camera. So it appears to be something specific with this camera model. I hope that helps!

Notice it appears to be specific to Sony A7-9 camera models. Let's hope Adobe Engineering comments at the report post.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 10, 2019 0
Engaged ,
Jun 10, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Ah, interesting that highlights and shadows were the culprit with that Smart Preview issue.

I just double checked, and am definitely still seeing the issue with 5DMKIII images (.dng files), even after resetting preferences, rebuilding 1:1 previews, and resetting develop settings. If I adjust highlights, the nadir gets darker than the other images. And I really want to use the highlight slider before exporting...

I'll keep an eye on the Photoshop Family thread.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 10, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 11, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

jimtron  wrote

I just double checked, and am definitely still seeing the issue with 5DMKIII images (.dng files), even after resetting preferences, rebuilding 1:1 previews, and resetting develop settings. If I adjust highlights, the nadir gets darker than the other images.

I see it as well, but if you build 1:1 Previews for that file AFTER applying -50 Highlights the Library and Develop previews look the same. Let me know if that's not the case with your Newberry_131107_4264.dng file.

What would really help is to provide a pair of CR2 files that exhibit the issue even. I believe the key factor that's causing this issue is that the nadir shots are all underexposed with the majority of the image data falling below the 50% level in the LR HIstogram as shown below. There's nothing wrong with your manual settings for these images. It's due to the high dynamic range of the surround shots versus nadir (underexposed) and zenith (overexposed).

Try shooting a pair of image files that exhibit a large difference in exposure between the surround and nadir shot. Shoot a bracket +1, 0, -1EV) to insure you get a file pair with nadir whose Histogram looks like below and the surround image is significantly above the 50% level with no settings applied. I noticed you're setting the Canon EF 8-15mm lens to 12mm, which reveals the image circle in the corners. Shoot the pairs with the lens set to 12mm and then again using the same manual settings at 15mm, which won't have dark corners. If it's due to the black area outside the image circle the 12mm nadir shot should reveal the bug and the 15mm nadir shot will not exhibit the issue. Give it a try.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 11, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 11, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

One important detail I forgot to mention is that Export files match the Develop module preview, which is correct. So you should be able to process the panorama sets with no issues. Please try exporting a nadir image file with the issue and let me know your results. It should be unaffected by the Library preview difference.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 11, 2019 0
Engaged ,
Jun 11, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

"I see it as well, but if you build 1:1 Previews for that file AFTER applying -50 Highlights the Library and Develop previewslook the same. Let me know if that's not the case with your Newberry_131107_4264.dng file."

Not the case; if I build 1:1 previews after applying highlights, the nadir still appears darker in develop mode.

"One important detail I forgot to mention is that Export files match the Develop module preview, which is correct. So you should be able to process the panorama sets with no issues."

No, it's a significant issue because my exports show darker nadir, so I can't get seamless stitching. Even after resetting prefs, resetting develop settings, re-building 1:1 previews after adjusting highlights, etc. I am not able to export TIFs with matching nadir.

I don't have any .cr2 pano sets anymore, I've converted them all to .dng.

This is how my nadir looks since I can't match the develop settings:

Screen Shot 2019-06-11 at 10.07.48 AM.png

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 11, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 11, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

jimtron  wrote

"I see it as well, but if you build 1:1 Previews for that file AFTER applying -50 Highlights the Library and Develop previewslook the same. Let me know if that's not the case with your Newberry_131107_4264.dng file."

Not the case; if I build 1:1 previews after applying highlights, the nadir still appears darker in develop mode.

This is how my nadir looks since I can't match the develop settings:

The screenshot you just posted exhibits a vignetting over-correction, which is different than the overall image brightness exhibited in the Sony and Canon files you provided. Let's keep this issue separate for now from the report you've filed. Most likely this being caused by an incorrect lens profile correction for the Sony A7 III, at least I assume this is an ARW file. If you can upload that raw file I'll take a look at it.

I was able to duplicate the original issue with two of my 5D MKII image files shot with the EOS 8-15mm F4L lens set to 8mm and 10mm. I'll add this to your report with a download link to the CR2 and XMP files.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 11, 2019 0
Engaged ,
Jun 11, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

No, this is the same issue, the reason it's darker in the center only is because that's the size I masked in PTGui to cover the nadir hole (I don't need the entire nadir shot, just the center portion). I never use lens profile corrections with at 12mm, because then they don't stitch properly with profile correction, that would de-fish the image.

This is from Canon 5DMIII shots, dng, with Canon 8-15mm at 12mm.

Attached screenshot shows the ground without nadir shot, only the "around" shots.

Screen Shot 2019-06-11 at 4.26.30 PM.png

" I'll add this to your report with a download link to the CR2 and XMP files."

Thanks!

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 11, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 11, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

To get Adobe to resolve this we need to confine the images to LR. if you use the above example Adobe will just say it's an issue with PTGui. Perhaps try to shoot an image pair that has the same illumination and place a piece of white copy paper at the nadir center and at the surround image center that has the same light level. That way you can measure it inside LR and demonstrate they are different exposures.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 11, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 12, 2019

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

jimtron  wrote

No, it's a significant issue because my exports show darker nadir, so I can't get seamless stitching. Even after resetting prefs, resetting develop settings, re-building 1:1 previews after adjusting highlights, etc. I am not able to export TIFs with matching nadir.

Without a reference (white balance card) in both the nadir and surround image with the same measured scene referred lighting it's difficult to determine the relative brightness difference. However, PTGui easily reveals this difference when trying to stitch the images. Following what you're seeing with the export files in PTGui I gave this some more thought and we do have two issues:

1) The nadir image file Develop preview and Library previews do not match unless 1:1 Previews are built after applying the Develop settings. This is what has been reported in the Photoshop Family forum and demonstrated with my Canon 5D MKII CR2 files shot using the same EF 8-15mm F4L Fisheye lens. This is clearly a bug since 1:1 Previews should not have to be built for reviewing image files at Fit view in the Loupe. Why this only happens with the fisheye lens when shooting nadir image files still remains a mystery.

2) Even with 1:1 Previews built so the Library and Develop module previews match the exposure level in the nadir image file is lower (darker) than the surround image file. This one I can explain as follows.

You are shooting theses panorama images with the Canon EF 8-15mm F4L Fisheye lens set to 12mm. This reveals the image circle in the four corners as full black level image data, which remains the same regardless of subject or light levels. Starting with Process Version 3 (2012) all of the Tone controls are "image adaptive" with Recovery and Fill replaced by Highlight and Shadow controls. These controls act differently on the image data based on the exposure level and dynamic range of the image data. The surround image files have a wide dynamic range extending well into highlight clipping (+100% level). Conversely the nadir images have a much lower dynamic range with most of the image data falling below the 50% Histogram level. ERGO: Nadir images render differently (i.e. darker) to the Highlights control than surround images.

One solution is to use Process Version 2, which only has two image adaptive controls (Recovery and Fill). I tested this below and it appears to provide better exposure matching than Process Version 3-5. The downside is that Process Versions 5 is much better at recovering highlights and shadows as well as better noise reduction. A better solution is to set the Canon EF 8-15mm F4L Fisheye lens to 15mm, which will create 180° diagonal full-frame images without dark corners. Panorama image file sets shot with the full-frame 15mm setting should not exhibit any of these issues. Is there a specific reason why you are using the 12mm focal length?

Process Version 5 Versus 2 (2010).jpg

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jun 12, 2019 0