Unbearable difference between library and develop

[Luca5CF2]

Hello everybody.

I've been having this problem that has been killing my images, having me working on images much different from the ones i shot.

I know that this is a common question, but i tried most of the stuff recommended in other threads and it didn't change.

I tried to change the import preferences, setting the GPU on off, changing the monitor profile to RGB...

My images are usually much darker in the develop module, at least 1 full point of exposure darker than in the library.

 The only thing left would be to calibrate my monitor, which should already be good.

Do you think that it'll solve my problem? Do you have any recommendation?

{Moved from Lightroom Cloud to Lightroom Classic Forum by Moderator}

[D Fosse]

OK. This is so far a mystery.

I had to double check on my own Windows 10 system, just to make sure I hadn't missed anything, but they are absolutely dead identical here.

[Todd Shaner · Accepted solution]

Guys, in the OP's Library module screenshot the following text appears anteprima incoporata. Translated from Italian to English it means embedded preview. So the OP is using Embedded & Sidecar preview setting in the Import module. EDIT Zooming to 1:1 view in the Library module or Making an adjustment in the Develop module should replace the embedded preview with one generated by LrC using the raw image file. If not in the Library module go Library> Previews and select 'Build Standard-Sized Previews' or 'Build 1:1 Previews.'

[Per Berntsen]

Good catch!

[Luca5CF2]

I've been using that kind of preview for the last few days, since using 1:1 or standard previews would only let me see the image as I shot it in the library one time, meaning that if I went to develop (where the image appeared differently) and came back to Library, the image would change.

Now, I don't know if there's some information I'm not getting 100% right, cause I tried many things and got them mixed up in my brain.

Tomorrow, as soon as I can, I'll try to set the previews at 1:1 again and see what I get.

Thank you

[D Fosse]

I had a feeling Todd would be the one to untangle this 🙂

A relief. I was afraid we had a bug on our hands.

[Luca5CF2]

I'm afraid that didn't solve it the way i mean.

Now, both in the library and develop module, the image is the darker one, which is not the one i shot.

When i used Embedded previews at least the real image showed in the library, but now it's the darker one in both

[Per Berntsen]

The embedded preview is not "the real image".

It just reflects the camera settings, which in this case include a setting that brightens the shadows.

Lightroom doesn't understand these settings, and ignores them. Just edit the image to your liking, and ignore the embedded preview.

If you set all camera settings to zero/neutral, the embedded preview will be closer to what you see in Lightroom.

The real image is the raw file, and if you could see it, it would be a dark, flat, grayscale image.

It has to be rendered in a raw converter to become a useful image, and Lightroom provides you with a starting point for further editing. There is no "correct" rendering of a raw file, different raw converters will render a raw file differently.

[D Fosse]

What can I say. Per is absolutely right.

There is no such thing as the "real image" when shooting raw. The raw image itself is useless until processed, and it's all down to how different processors (yourself included!) interpret the sensor data.

I know, I'm just repeating what Per said. But this is important to fully understand.

[Luca5CF2]

Damn, how have i never realised this.

Now i've got a doubt. Since what i see in Lightroom isn't what i see when i shoot in the camera, but is instead much darker, should i change something? i can't continue shooting rightly exposed in camera and having under-exposed pictures in Lightroom.

Thank you for your help!

[D Fosse]

Read this, in particular reply #4:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic/shot-at-too-high-shutter-speed-no-problem/td-p/1153... 

That's the explanation. You can compensate a little by giving a bit more exposure than you normally would (that's what I do), but of course you have to be careful. If you clip the highlights they're gone.

[Luca5CF2]

Got it. 

I've been giving more exposure to the images in Lightroom, cause i didn't want to overexpose while shooting, but i guess i'll have to try.

Great, thank you everybody! 

[richardplondon]

Not wanting to overexpose when shooting, is a good aim! Not wanting to underexpose is also a good aim, but secondary to avoiding overexposure.

However, "overexposure" has two possible meanings:

• aesthetic - looks light, straight out of the box
• technical - no matter how you process it, you can never get desired results in highlight areas that you care about (say: clouds in the sky, or a white wedding dress) - because those areas of the sensor have been overwhelmed with too much light.

And "underexposure" has two possible meanings:

• aesthetic - looks dark, straight out of the box. 
• technical - the overall picture has received less light information than would have been ideal in terms of making full use of the capability of the sensor: so the tone / colour gradations above the noise floor, are somewhat impoverished.

An analogy of exposing with Raw processing in mind, rather than towards a camera JPG:

Potters do not care about the starting shape of their lump of clay. It simply doesn't help them if that happens to look bowl shaped already, nor hinder them if it doesn't. Their next action is going to be to knead it regardless - throw it on the wheel - and then achieve the shape of bowl they want.

What they want in this lump of clay, is to be good material to work with: (the right amount, the right mixture, etc)

"Get it right in the camera" for a JPG shooter means: make the best bowl that you can.

And for a Raw shooter: make sure you hand to the potter, the most bowl-worthy lump of clay that you can. Knowing that it will be kneaded as their first action (that prior in-camera image settings, are going to be then disregarded as irrelevant).

[D Fosse]

That's right, absolutely agree with that. Lump of clay is an excellent analogy.

Personally, I really couldn't care less how it looks on the camera LCD. All I care about is what I have to work with in Lightroom. No clipped highlights, but also enough exposure to minimize noise and have enough data in the shadows.

If I need a degree of "accuracy" I put a colorchecker in a reference frame, and use that as a guide in the Lr processing. Although it should be noted that absolute colorimetric accuracy is an illusion and a red herring. You'll never get there, and there's no point trying. What you want is equivalent and credible color.

[Luca5CF2]

That's  a great analogy.

I know it doesn't seem like it, i was missing critical information, but i knew what i was doing, i was shooting in a way that would've helped me in Lightroom, if only my information was correct. 

Now i know it wasn't.

Thank you

[Todd Shaner]

"Since what i see in Lightroom isn't what i see when i shoot in the camera, but is instead much darker, should i change something?"

The Develop module raw preview (darker) and Library with the embedded preview difference is most likely due to an in-camera setting. As already mentioned these settings are visible in the camera's viewfinder and in camera JPEG files, but not the raw image file. Looking at the camera manual there are a number of settings that will cause this difference. On page 24 Shooting modes use only the P, A, S, and M settings as the other modes will apply adjustments to the in-camera preview, which is the same as the embedded preview inside LrC. Using those modes should reduce the preview difference your seeing. The same is true for the Picture Mode settings on page 69 and the settings on pages 79-84. These settings are only applied to the in-camera JPEG, viewfinder preview, and camera histogram, but have no affect on the raw image file inside LrC. These settings should only be used if you want to shoot in-camera processed JPEGs or Raw + JPEG mode to see the effect.

[Luca5CF2]

Thank you, i fully understand.

I only shoot Manual mode, so yeah, unless i changed somethings, it shouldn't have happened, so i guess i did.

i resetted the settings and will do some tries tomorrow.

It's a shame that the 400 photos of my last trip are in that condition, but i'm glad i know what the problem is/was now.

I didn't know that the LCD showed the Jpeg, so that helps, but i did notice that even when my LCD showed overexposed highlights i could easily recover them in Lightroom.

Just to be sure, the situation is: I was missing critical information about how RAW works in camera, and i based all of my shots on what i saw in the LCD, which is wrong in a normal condition, and even wronger when you have some weird setting that enhances the shadows.

[Todd Shaner]

"I've been giving more exposure to the images in Lightroom, cause i didn't want to overexpose while shooting"

A few points here. The camera viewfinder preview and histogram are created using an in-camera processed JPEG image. As such the dynamic range is much more limited than the actual raw data and will show viewfinder and histogram highlight clipping that isn't present in the raw image file. That's one on many reasons why we use raw mode. Even the LrC Histogram isn't accurate and will show clipping that can be easily recovered using -Highlights and/or -Exposure. Download the free trial of RawDigger and check its histogram. I bet you'll find most of your raw image files are underexposed (-1 EV or more). Enjoy and happy shooting!

https://www.rawdigger.com/download