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Workflow Question: How to Edit in Camera Raw (not Photoshop) from LrC?

Explorer ,
Oct 08, 2020

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Am revising aspects of a workflow strategy and wondering if there are settings choices or instruction needed so I can go from Lightroom to open an image directly in ACR, first - not Photoshop. (Not using Bridge.)

Right now, the only reliably quick way is to take the image(s) from Lightroom and plop them on the desktop, first.  Then drag the image(s) on Photoshop - where it will open ACR.  

From Lightroom, the action pop-up allows Open in Adobe Photoshop but appears that Lightroom has never heard of Adobe Camera Raw as an option.  That makes me think that I may have some settings choices or instructions not set properly to facilitate this process.

Have tried Photoshop > Filter > Camera Raw (dropdown) but it does not seem to have exactly the same functionality, esp., no snap shots.

 

Thank-you!

 

Photoshop v 21.2.3

LrC v 9.4

Camera Raw 12.4

macOS Catalina 10.15.7

LrC is built around Camera RAW. Camera RAW is in the coding. If, in LrC, you click on /Help/System Info/ it will list the version of  Camera RAW included.

 

Each Develop Module you accomplish  uses ACR.

 

Following example a bit dated

 

LrC Sys Info.PNG

 

As for using Bridge, you can, but that is a bit pointless. LrC is a database program, built around ACR, You use it as a Data Management, the database being the Catalog. The fields in the database containing records on where photos are, and what you have done to them. So no need to use Bridge to file where the photos are.

 

As for going from LrC to PS and back, that is accomplished by Edit in Photoshop (bit simplified) Remember when exiting PS to either Close, or Save, not Save As.

 

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Workflow Question: How to Edit in Camera Raw (not Photoshop) from LrC?

Explorer ,
Oct 08, 2020

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Am revising aspects of a workflow strategy and wondering if there are settings choices or instruction needed so I can go from Lightroom to open an image directly in ACR, first - not Photoshop. (Not using Bridge.)

Right now, the only reliably quick way is to take the image(s) from Lightroom and plop them on the desktop, first.  Then drag the image(s) on Photoshop - where it will open ACR.  

From Lightroom, the action pop-up allows Open in Adobe Photoshop but appears that Lightroom has never heard of Adobe Camera Raw as an option.  That makes me think that I may have some settings choices or instructions not set properly to facilitate this process.

Have tried Photoshop > Filter > Camera Raw (dropdown) but it does not seem to have exactly the same functionality, esp., no snap shots.

 

Thank-you!

 

Photoshop v 21.2.3

LrC v 9.4

Camera Raw 12.4

macOS Catalina 10.15.7

LrC is built around Camera RAW. Camera RAW is in the coding. If, in LrC, you click on /Help/System Info/ it will list the version of  Camera RAW included.

 

Each Develop Module you accomplish  uses ACR.

 

Following example a bit dated

 

LrC Sys Info.PNG

 

As for using Bridge, you can, but that is a bit pointless. LrC is a database program, built around ACR, You use it as a Data Management, the database being the Catalog. The fields in the database containing records on where photos are, and what you have done to them. So no need to use Bridge to file where the photos are.

 

As for going from LrC to PS and back, that is accomplished by Edit in Photoshop (bit simplified) Remember when exiting PS to either Close, or Save, not Save As.

 

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LEGEND ,
Oct 08, 2020

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LrC is built around Camera RAW. Camera RAW is in the coding. If, in LrC, you click on /Help/System Info/ it will list the version of  Camera RAW included.

 

Each Develop Module you accomplish  uses ACR.

 

Following example a bit dated

 

LrC Sys Info.PNG

 

As for using Bridge, you can, but that is a bit pointless. LrC is a database program, built around ACR, You use it as a Data Management, the database being the Catalog. The fields in the database containing records on where photos are, and what you have done to them. So no need to use Bridge to file where the photos are.

 

As for going from LrC to PS and back, that is accomplished by Edit in Photoshop (bit simplified) Remember when exiting PS to either Close, or Save, not Save As.

 

Just another Adobe customer; My Sys; APP: LRC 10.0, PS 22.0; CMP: WIN WS 16GB OS 10 v1909 (18363), mid 2015 MBPr 15” 16GB MACOS 10.15.7; 4K EXT DSPY; CAM: Canon 5D Mk III, Fuji X-T3

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Oct 08, 2020 1
Explorer ,
Oct 08, 2020

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Thank-you for the extra information and clarification!  It really helps!  I will study the System Info recommended, too.

Also, will review how I am exiting PS, again.

Glad to hear that Bridge is not necessarily the answer.

 

Please see my other reply to gary_sc, below.  

 

These are amazing program applications and I am completely awestruck at real people like you who have this knowledge!

 

Thank-you, again!

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 08, 2020

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Well, not sure how to tell you this but Lightroom is ACR. Yes, the interface is a tad different and the keyboard shortcuts are also different but they do have the same internal engines. 

the major difference is that Lightyis ACR with a database. There are a lot of advantages with that. 

so, to answer your question, just use Lightroom!

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Explorer ,
Oct 08, 2020

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Thank-you for the edu & clarification.  With the revised workflow, when the plan requires more extensive post and file-prep, I start with basics in Lightroom, then move to ACR, and finish in Photoshop.  I have set up a few "test" files for comparison, doing the "same" editing in both LR and in ACR, and for some reason that I cannot prove, all of my finished files are more reliable (& manageable) results.   Plus, I work faster in ACR because of  less distractions.  

Funny to me, is that, while editing in ACR, I kept asking ... (no one - until, today) ... isn't this the same as LR, really?  Yet I get more work done, and more accurate results. duh-Hmmm, ... .  

Really appreciate the information.  Gives me a lot more to understand and to work on refining.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 08, 2020

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The problem with that is that Lightroom edits aren't visible in ACR, and ACR edits aren't visible in Lightroom.

 

Lightroom stores all its edits in a central database away from the file.

 

ACR stores edits in the file header (DNG) or a separate "sidecar" file that follows the main file (camera-native raws).

 

You can connect the two with some extra steps, but that severely impacts efficiency and basically defeats the whole purpose of the Lightroom catalog. Better stick to one. If you use Lightroom, use Lightroom.

 

ACR is used as an intermediate "proxy" for Lightroom when you Edit in Photoshop from Lightroom. Then Lightroom passes all the develop settings on to ACR, which opens the file silently into Photoshop. In that case you don't see the ACR interface, there's no need to. All of this is handled by background scripts. It can work this way because Lightroom and ACR share the same processing engine, as long as they're on the same version level. If not, it won't work.

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Explorer ,
Oct 09, 2020

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Thank-you for this extra info.  Being more photographer and less techy, I really appreciate this community and the knowledge shared, here.  

The ACR side-car file is important key to remember and that those are not Lightroom files.

 

Is this the "same version level" for Lightroom and ACR that you refer to, or do I need to look at the system info to verify that?

Camera Raw 12.4

LrC v 9.4

 

Photoshop v 21.2.3

macOS Catalina 10.15.7

 

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Oct 09, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 10, 2020

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Yes, Lr 9.4 and ACR 12.4 are corresponding versions. That's the same version level.

 

If you go to Lr Help > About, you get this:

aboutLr.png

 

It means that Lightroom 9.4 has the ACR 12.4 engine built in. If your actual ACR version - the Photoshop plugin - is not at this version also, the two won't work properly together, and functions like "edit in Photoshop" may not work. The two need to be identical.

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Explorer ,
Oct 10, 2020

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Thank-you, again!  This is valuable to know.  

Recently, started using ACR more often, and love the speed and results, on the image & final output.  Am following a work-book which was produced a couple of years back - different versions of everything.  Once the output is completed the instructions end, and is why all of these questions about the workflow.  

Given all the information from these conversations & string, it helps conclude a big part.

👍

**********

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Advocate ,
Oct 10, 2020

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I go from LrC to ACR all the time by selecting Edit In .../Open as Smart Object in Photoshop. PS will open with the image as a layer named with the file name. Double-click on the SO icon in the layer thumbnail and ACR will open with LrC editing applied to the image.

 

I use this technique on intended jpg output for the web because I prefer to do down-sizing in ACR, selective/output sharpening in PS and then write the jpg afterwards.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 10, 2020

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Yes, but if you open that raw file directly in ACR, those edits won't be there. That was my point.

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Advocate ,
Oct 10, 2020

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Yes they will, if you have done Ctrl/Cmd + S or have set LrC to automatically write XMPs, ACR will read and apply the settings from there. On days when I don't want to finish off right away and don't want to open LrC when I come back to the computer, I open ACR from Bridge and I'm good to go.

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Explorer ,
Oct 10, 2020

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Your process workflow makes sense, too for a web-jpg.  Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Through this string I am learning and evaluating more.  And have a whole bunch of queries - most that I have to study and prove-out for myself.  It might be a couple weeks but am setting up a new "workflow test" to review the steps and results.  I will put your suggestion in to the works for comparison.   But so far, in the equation of LR>ACR>PS + me = (x, or y) ... "me" is the big question.  🤓

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 11, 2020

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I know all this is possible, elie, I know about ctrl+S and auto write XMP. What I'm trying to do is clarify the basic concepts. I'm trying to prevent the OP from getting lost in a self-defeating and counter-productive workflow. Once he has the basic concepts straight, and understands how the two applications differ, he can later explore the finer nuances and find ways to adjust.

 

That is what I referred to when I said in my first post, quote, "You can connect the two with some extra steps, but that severely impacts efficiency and basically defeats the whole purpose of the Lightroom catalog."

 

 

 

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Oct 11, 2020 0
F.Quill LATEST
Explorer ,
Oct 11, 2020

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@D Fosse  You are absolutely correct that I needed to understand the basic concepts about the efficiency and that the whole purpose of LR cat was defeated.  That's what my original question came out of, really.  LR is great for 90% of the post-prod, for me.  

Through this string, I have a better understanding for what expectations/assumptions need to change.  Re-schooling and will get it all figured out thanks to all the expert input, here!

There is no one quick solution or answer.  

(Although, in an older version of Camera Raw and Lightroom, I am pretty sure there was a Preference Setting option to keep the camera raw settings in sync with LR.)

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 10, 2020

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@ F_Quill you have lots of info to digest in the thread and would like to share my thoughts.

I got involved in the beta version of Lightroom in late June 2006, the app was released in Feb 2007.

The first thing that captivated me was the fact the application was working towards eliminating the need to store the editing info in xmp sidecar files. It was in the early days of using applications that the main function was rendering RAW files created by Digital Cameras, at that time all the apps that were available created sidecar files to store metadata data and editing info since this info was not written to the raw files.

ACR was the Photoshop plug-in that provided this function for Adobe application purposes, Lightroom was being designed to not store the data in a sidecar but to utilize a Catalog Data Based file to store the info and edits. At the time I was using three other raw processing applications which also created there own sidecar files. It was a pita for sure so when Lr was launched I decided to adopt Lightroom in preference to the other apps.

The longtime users of Photoshop / ACR were comfortable with their option and did not choose to adopt the Lightroom Catalog based workflow and many remain with this choice.

My view is Lightroom is an option to ACR / Bridge as the Develop and Library Modules provide these functions and some more you have the Print, Web, etc that provide more sharing functions.

Lightroom in this respect is a full stand alone application that provides most of what a photographer requires. It does not possess the advanced features of Photoshop that are essential for graphic artists and the like.

Lightroom does not require you to have any other Adobe application installed for it to function.

You can see the apps that I use in my signature info but my workflow does not include the use of xmp sidecars or DNG files.

Lightroom is not a good mix and match with ACR / Bridge. Lightroom has an option to write data to the file so it can be share with ACR / Bridge, however they cannot read or write to the Lightroom Catalog file.

If you are happy with ACR / Bridge that's fine.

 

Regards, Denis: System iMac mid-2015, 5K 27” monitor, macOS10.15.7: LrC 10, Lr 4, Ps 22.0,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Explorer ,
Oct 11, 2020

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Hello Denis!  Thank-you for being part of this excellent community!  As a fellow OM-D'er (E-M5 Mk II) I really appreciate that you took the time to lend your experience!

The side-car file and its role is important to understand - am finally digesting this.  This whole thread is become highly informative.  It shows me the aspects of the file-types that I did not consider when I first posted.

For 90% of everything, I do love working from Lightroom.  Tried to use it exclusively for an extended lenght of time.  It is stable and a powerhouse but does require constant nurturing and frequent coffee-breaks, ... ahem.  Also, I do not use DNGs except when requested.  

When an image needs to go to that other level ACR has so much merit - partially because of its power and simplicity.  And I am determined to find the best way to work it in - when needed. When I finish mapping out the workflow scenarios, including how I "close" or "save as" (credit to Davidg info above in this string) the file, and refining that, with all the info in this thread, it will work out.  

Thanks, again, so much!!

 

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