P: Please add advanced keywords - controlled vocabulary

[MJCreighton]

Lightroom CC and Keywords.
It appears that the CC version only has limited support for keywords. For those of us who have spent years collecting or building controlled vocabularies, this would be a critical requirement and is a potential game-changer in respect of migrating to the CC version. Dealing with 10,000 bird species in a variety of languages including scientific binomials ain't going to be fun in a flat keyword list. I recognise that for people who only want 'blue', 'sky', 'holiday' this won't be important, but for digital asset management it is pretty up there.
Support for a continuation of hierarchical controlled vocabularies would be much appreciated.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

One big benfit of Lightroom CC is to already work on your pictures while you're not at home (keyword travel fotography) and have them syncronized back to Lightroom classic once you are back. So not being able to use keywords that you enter while you are still on location is a big drawback and doesn't make sense to me. I also hope the Adobe will bring that feature soon.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Can't understand why this important feature was missed (or ignored) in the conceptual idea. Keywording is one of more important features of LR. I don't care whether its a hierarchy or flat - but it should sync in some form 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I sure am happy I found out about the problem with keyword syncing before I paid for a subscription to Lightroom CC.  Lightroom Classic does pretty much everything I wanted it to do except sync to mobile devices.  I thought it was pretty cumbersome needing to sync through CC, but I was ready to live with it.  I was also ready to live with the fact that I would also need to buy a Lightroom license for my wife's computer, just so she would be able to sync our shared photo drive to her mobile devices.  I thought it was a no-brainer that keywords would move back and forth between synchronized files from all of the devices, but NO!

I just downloaded mylio, and it is EXACTLY what I need, plus I only have to pay for one license for five devices for $10 a month.  Sorry Adobe, but I am uninstalling Lightroom this afternoon.

[chrisb123456]

Seems like such an obvious feature doesn't it? I'm still using Classic as the main source with some light syncing to CC for Mobile. But I sure hope someone is listening.

They pulled the same dumb move with their faces implementation too. I have tens of thousands of faces manually tagged in classic and the new feature in CC is completely unrelated. Adobe just seems to drop our data like it means nothing.

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

Great to hear you've found a solution you're happy with David. Out of interest, are you using Mylio alongside Lightroom Classic? Or instead of it? What does Mylio give you that the Lightroom Cloudy ecosystem (ignoring Classic) was missing? 

[robgendreau]

David can speak for himself, but as a former Mylio subscriber I'd say it's biggest strength is synching. You've got more options to control that (locations, size of images synched, LAN synching, and so on). Plus synching all sorts of metadata (when I used it only flat keyword synching). Not sure why they can manage such metadata synching when Adobe can't, or won't. It doesn't have nearly the adjustment prowess of Lr, or plugins, publishing, printing, etc etc. But synching is great.

Mylio can also read lots of basic adjustments done in Adobe products, like exposure, crops, and so on. So it can work with Classic; that's how I used it. But as Adobe's synching and mobile apps improved I didn't feel the need for it anymore. There are still some features it has I'd love to see in Lr (LAN synching, metadata) but not enough to go back to Mylio.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

As far as I can tell, Lightroom CC won't allow you to leave your files organized in the original directory structure on your hard drive, which is something I really liked about LR Classic.  I have a home file server with all of my photo files in a YYYY/MM directory storage format that is backed up continuously in multiple locations with all of my other important files, so CC's proprietary file storage format is a dealbreaker for me. (Same reason I dislike iPhoto.)

I don't do a lot of editing of my photo files, so I'm okay with the limited functionality mylio has in that regard.  I need a system that allows my wife to add photos to our server from her iPad or iMac and lets me do the same thing from my Android phone or Windows 10 computer. As the photos are added, the original directory structure on the file server needs to be maintained.  I also want a system where both of us can easily add and edit metadata within the stored files on our server independently from one another and where we can each view all of our photos on our mobile devices wherever we are.  Mylio works perfectly for all of that.  It is very flexible in how photos are added to our system, and it keeps everything--including ALL metadata--in perfect sync and up to date on all of our devices.  Plus, it does a great job of managing storage on the mobile devices (by using thumbnails and preview files), and it only costs $10 a month for up to five devices.  Oh, and on top of all that, if I did want to edit my photos, it allows the photos to be opened in Photoshop or almost any other editing software from within the mylio app.

In the Lightroom ecosystem, to get anything close to the above functionality, I would need two licenses (one for my login and one for my wife's), two different apps on each computer (Classic and CC), synchronization to the mobile devices would need to be managed manually on each computer (since smart collections don't sync to mobile devices and since storage capacity on the mobile devices is limited), AND keywords wouldn't sync.  Clearly not ideal.   

I have uninstalled both Lightroom Classic and CC from my system--no need for either with mylio.

[robgendreau]

That IS a great use case for Mylio.

If you ever do need to do more, note that Classic (not CC/Lr/Cloud) works pretty good with Mylio since it too references files, and since metadata can be read/written back and forth to them, and then synched by Mylio. At least with raw files. That's what I did. But the lack of proper DNG support put an end to that.

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

That's useful info, thanks for sharing!

[luxBorealis]

What a stupid limitation. I should be able to swap back and forth between my iPad Pro and my laptop. When I'm on the road and am killing time in the evening, I keyword - but if all I have with me is my iPad Pro, it's a waste of time. If I can do sophisticated editing on iPad, then keywords should be a no brainer. C'mon Adobe, it's not like Google and Apple having their OS spats; you create both products.

[chrisb123456]

Boggles the mind doesn't it?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

PLEASE ADOBE!

[Guitarfish64]

I've finally come to terms with the subscription model and just migrated from Lightroom 5 to Classic, primarily so that I can use an iPad-first workflow through Lightroom Mobile while travelling.
I'm happy with most things, but am really disappointed to discover that I can't synch Keywords between these versions. Seems like a bizarre decision. I could accept having to choose a structure (hierarchical for Classic, flat for CC) and stick with it, but this suggests that Classic users are being treated like 2nd-class citizens, which is making me question my decision to sign up to a plan. Maybe I should bail out now before I've added too much to my Classic catalog?

[Guitarfish64]

Agreed. I would prefer my Classic hierarchy, but any level of sync would be better than nothing... 

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

> this suggests that Classic users are being treated like 2nd-class citizens

More a citizen of a different country, rather than 2nd class. They talk different languages, so while they have some ability to communicate, the governments tend to argue! 😉

[robgendreau]

To further the metaphor, I'm hoping that with iPadOS that someone will come up with a metadata editor to work with imported/browsed files on the road. Sort of a Photo Mechanic for iPadOS. So I'd do my initial work in that, and Lr (non-Classic) would see that and import the files just fine (I think...haven't done a lot of work with iPadOS yet).

[clar1j0h]

I have commented earlier on this thread - requesting that Adobe strongly consider syncing of keywords between Lightroom CC [LR Cloud] and Lightroom Classic [LR Classic]. I still believe it is an important feature.

Victoria Brampton’s comment that LRClassic is not a 2nd class citizen, rather a citizen of a different country is a perfect analogy and has clarified something I have been thinking for a while, so thank you Victoria. I find your books always helpful and your insights into Lightroom invaluable.

“Country” LR Classic

LR Classic was developed in conjunction with professional photographers to meet their needs in managing the then newly emerging digital photography and the workflows that digital photography required.

LR Classic’s central feature was its robust database, which also provided ways to categorize photos [Keywords, Stars, Flags, Colors], coupled with editing tools to enhance digital photos with non-destructive editing. This made LR Classic the go to product for professional photographers and serious amateurs.

Over the years I have recommended LR Classic to newcomers to digital photography as a step up from the free Apple and Google products, simply because of the robustness and strength of the key-wording feature, the ability to find your photo irrespective of clumsy folders or other storage choices.

“Country” LR Cloud

LR Cloud seems to be Adobe’s response to the possible dominance of iPhotos [1 billion active iOS users] and Google Photos [500 million users] for smartphone users, which gives an easy default choice for uploading and storing photos in the cloud and both of which continue to improve their tools for cataloging and editing photos.

Relationship between LR Classic and LR Cloud

Victoria’s comment that LR Classic and LR Cloud “talk different languages, so while they have some ability to communicate, the governments tend to argue! ;-),” raises the question, should they communicate better?

Who are the core users of LR Cloud? I don’t pretend to know, but given the existing pricing model every LR Classic user is also by default a “user” of LR Cloud.

The question for Adobe is, are their sufficient customers prepared to pay $120 a year for LR Cloud on its own, simply to gain a better version of Apple iPhoto or Google Photos.

Is this dual usage masking a reality from Adobe? How many users would be prepared to license LR Cloud on its own? Is LR Cloud attractive enough on its own either to lure the casual iPhone photographer whose photos automatically upload to iPhotos? Or to provide a robust system for the professional or serious amateur?

I have serious doubts as to the number of casual users who would use [and pay for] LR Cloud as an alternative to the free and ever improving iPhotos or Google photos options. The work flow to get photos into LR Cloud is clumsy and non-intuitive, and while the editing tools are superior perhaps only the serious photographer will really value them enough to pay for them.

For a serious photographer with a large library LR Cloud on its own is not viable. The storage cost, speed of access, ready availability in low bandwidth environments and the lack of serious hierarchical keywording make it a non starter.

Having said that I do use LR Cloud to:

1. Make photos in collections available on my iPhone, iPad and Apple TV.
2. When I travel with just my iPad I upload my camera to the iPad. Of course I have to go through iPhotos to upload the originals to iCloud and at the same time I can upload to LR Cloud to allow me to do some processing while I am on the road. 
3. In some countries with low bandwidth it can take days to upload to the cloud. 
4. The obvious problem from my workflow perspective is that no keywording can be done on LR Cloud, as it just doesn’t sync with LR Classic. 
5. On my last trip I reverted to the MacBook and LR Classic to allow a more seamless process, but there are still times I would appreciate the ability to travel with just the iPad.

So is Adobe risking its loyal user base of Classic by not giving full functionality in the iOS environment? What happens if a serious alternative offers full functionality on both the desktop and iOS/Android environments?

Would Adobe have been better to go the Photoshop route and offer an [almost] full function version on the iPad?

If I am right and the core users are LR Classic users who want the additional benefits that LR Cloud can provide, then there is a real need to get the two “countries” communicating better with each other.

So again Adobe, my request is that you enable keywords to sync between LR Classic and LR Cloud.

[Lewis Craik]

A great overview of the situation.

[Lewis Craik]

There’s also the fact that you can spend hours keywording in CC, with no warning that it won’t sync back to CC Classic and that your time was wasted.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I do the same:

• use LR Classic on my Macs as it's the only app of the two with professional features (like batch processing with various 3rd party plugins)
• use LR Classic's Synced Collections to have selected photos of my mine available on-the-go on an iPad, iPhone and LR Web
• use LR Mobile on iPad to review my photos from time-to-time and occasionally present my photos face-to-face
• use LR Mobile on iPhone to have my important selected photos available to me on my pocket all the time

So I do love being able to sync selected photos of my professional photo assignments to my iPad, iPhone and the web. But I do not want ALL my LR Catalog photos synced as syncing all my 250.000 photos would be totally unnecessary. Already I'm having 50.000 photos synced and probably would need to manage them better, I don't want to ever change to new LR Desktop where all these photos would need to be synced to cloud – as designed. 

[patrickhudgell]

I agree. I  use the Lightroom ecosystem in pretty much the same way. I have no reason to sync all my photos. I would however like to be able to batch edit and keyword on my iPad when I am away from home and have all of the results available on my desktop. I still see the lack of keywording compatibility as a major flaw and think it is quite astonishing that Adobe cannot or will not come up with a solution to this.

[PamMcPherson]

I hate that the Hierarchy of Keywords went away as I am moving from Lightroom Classic to Lightroom CC.  All that hard work for nothing.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

It's a perfect direct analogy of DAM within this industry as a whole. The focus is on amassing loads of content, with only seasoned pro's knowing that everything is nothing without metadata to find and search it all. Wish LR cloud had a custom field for 'flattened classic keywords' that could be imported from classic (and synced occasionally to update). it may not be hierarchical, but terms could at least be findable in the cloud environment, without losing every ounce of search functionality from your entire library. 

[rogerhyam]

I have about 45k photos occupying half a terrabyte of space and I'm trying to get them organised. I used to use Apple Aperture but migrated across a few years ago so you can imagine the mess.

I'm set up with Lightroom and my 1TB of storage so I shouldn't have to worry about syncing and can use mobile or web if needed. To print I just do "Edit in Photoshop" and print from there. It seems like it should be easy.

Alas I'm finding the implementation of Keywords in Lightroom absolutely terrible! For starters it is case sensitive with no protections on creating near duplicates so it is really easy to create multiple versions of the same keyword. I have a few hundred images tagged with "Dry Plate" and/or "dry plate". Plus may typos and other things in the keywords it suggests.

There appears to be no ability to merge keywords or edit the keyword list. (I believe this exists in Lightroom Classic.) Neither can I delete "dry plate" from multiple images simultaneously. So I can't select all those images, tag them with "Dry Plate" and delete the "dry plate" tag.

I could migrate to Lightroom Classic but that looks like a complete pain. I'd have to buy more local storage for starters. 

Any suggestions?

I'm pretty disappointed because I believed Lightroom would have caught up with Lightoom Classic a lot more by now. I've been subscribing for years and it just hasn't happened. This is feeling like the last straw and that I should look for an laternative to Adobe. If I have to go to the bother of migrating to Classic and buying myself and external drive to do simple keywording then I may as well migrate to something else that I don't have to pay a subscription for.

I can't believe I am saying this but after my experiences today Lightroom just doesn't feel like it is fit for purpose as a tool to curated large collections of images. Maybe classic is but the new version certainly isn't. Please show me otherwise!!!

[solo-nko]

I also would really appreciate if the CC/Web/Mobile versions were to gain more advanced keyword support.  Keywords are core to my organization in Lightroom, and without them I can't make much use of anything other than LR Classic.

If CC supported hierarchical keywords, I could shift to using Classic on my workstation and CC/Web on my laptop or tablet, which would be perfect.