Adobe Muse EOL announcement - Alternatives to Adobe Muse?

[Preran]

Hi all,

For those of you that haven't received the email around the Adobe Muse EOL, see the FAQ Product Announcement that tries to answer some the common questions around the announcement including the reasons behind the decision.

Before we proceed with discussing alternatives, the Muse application will continue to open on your computer. You will be able to continue to edit existing or create new websites with the application. Adobe Muse will continue to be supported until May 20, 2019 and will deliver compatibility updates with the Mac and Windows OS or fix any bugs that might crop up when publishing Muse sites to the web. However, it is quite possible that web standards and browsers will continue to change after Adobe stops support for the application.

While there is no 1:1 replacement for Adobe Muse at this stage, the FAQ link above provides some alternatives. Also, Adobe is making our own investment in DIY website creation and welcomes all Muse customers to join our upcoming pre-release program for a new format that will be introduced this year as part of Adobe Spark. Build a beautiful website—in minutes | Adobe Spark

That being said, I would like to open up this discussion for discussing other solutions and migration paths. It would be ideal if we could focus our efforts on the topic at hand.

Thanks,

Preran

[homeboy4]

The Los Angeles InDesign User Group -- which also covers Muse -- would like to host an in-person meeting where alternatives to Muse are outlined and discussed. I see the meeting as being two-fold: conceptual alternatives (i.e., different approaches to creating a site); and specific alternatives (i.e., pros and cons of the major players held to be alternatives). And maybe that comprehensive spreadsheet of alternatives posted on this thread could be a handout. Who here would like to helm such a meeting? We are thinking of January 17, 2019 or may 16, 2019 as possible dates. If you aren't in Southern California, but interested, still contact me.

I don't see this meeting as a place to complain about Adobe's misguided decision to shutter Muse. I also don't see this as an attempt to come up with a so-called "one best alternative." Hopefully this is be a place where different approaches and alternatives are discussed with information provided both by the presenter I am seeking, as well as knowledgeable members of the audience.

[valériel80971565]

Concerning Muse

Since one year now, I try to find something equivalent ... nothing ... .
I am choreographer and photographer, I don't have time to learn and use more difficult programs like Dreamweaver.

As an artist, Adobe Muse is also a cheap way to have a beautiful website ... I would like to have the necessary funds to pay a webmaster ... .

I read so many messages about this problem. I know that I am not the only one to NEED the Muse program for my jobs.

Adobe has probably his reasons to stop this program ...

My problem today is not to adapt myself to another program for my websites. No, the problem is find something equivalent : easy with beautiful results.

Especially in french 😉

PLEASE Adobe, let us know what we can do now !!!

Valérie Lacaze

www.valerielacaze.com

[andrewd1261306]

our situation is similar & on the last mac operating system update Creative Cloud refused to work & we panicked, The best alternative we came up with is blocsapp. Thankfuly Muse & CC is back up & working but when it stops I think it will be Bloc for us.

www.victorianpine.com

[Nancy OShea]

valériel80971565  wrote

I am choreographer and photographer, I don't have time to learn and use more difficult programs like Dreamweaver.  As an artist, Adobe Muse is also a cheap way to have a beautiful website ... I would like to have the necessary funds to pay a webmaster ... .

If you can't work with code and you cannot afford to hire a developer,  have a look at Adobe Portfolio.    Portfolio is free hosting and web site with qualifying Creative Cloud plans. 

Adobe Portfolio | Build your own personalized website

[CDComVisuelle]

Hi, I'm a french graphic designer and was used to work with Muse since 6 years. Unfortunately, this EOL is for me a crash in my workflow. So, after a reflexion time, I've decided to learn a new way to make wonderfull website. And my choice is on Wordpress which propose with its new Gutember version and Divi a WYSWYG version without code. After a pro learning during average 20h, I'm able to create personalized website, full responsive. If you have few time, invest in a pro learning. If not, you can contact someone using Wordpress (like me ;-), sites aren't so expensive! Go luck in your projects.

[Peter Villevoye]

My bet is also on WordPress with its new Gutenberg page builder (in stead of DIVI, Avada, Elementor, what you have). WordPress might be a bit overkill for just a static website of a few pages. But hey – I've always seen websites grow beyond Muse's capabilities, so having a CMS at hand is a good idea...

[atillahun]

I chose Pinegrow to replace MUSE, this has a very snazzy compiler for Wordpress. I spent some time on their tutorials and built a fully functioning Wordpress theme from scratch and I have no PHP knowhow. Pinegrow is not free and the Wordpress version costs more but it works very effectively.

As an aside, I have rebuilt all the sites I had developed in MUSE, as a comparison I took two visually identical sites, one built in MUSE the other using Pinegrow. The index page stats are as follows;

MUSE

220 lines of code

27,235 characters

Pinegrow

42 lines of code

1745 characters

For the total 4 page site

MUSE

10 CSS files

14 script files

Pinegrow

1 CSS file

No Script files

Pinegrow is a superb product but you will need HTML and CSS knowledge to use it, so similar in that respect to Dreamweaver. It supports SASS, Bootstrap and has a very good visual CSS Grid editor. There is more I have not yet explored. Lastly I have used Dreamweaver and find Pinegrow a lot easier to use.

[Nancy OShea]

atillahun  wrote

MUSE

220 lines of code

27,235 characters

10 CSS files

14 script files

Code generators like Muse + 3rd party widgets = way more code than necessary.  But that's the price one pays for all that ease of use.

Pinegrow is a very good tool.  But Dreamweaver excels at site management which I can't part with.

[Peter Villevoye]

It's not fair to compare numbers like these, for three reasons.

First: only if the overall loading time and snappiness of the website is at stake, then I'd really worry about these stats. But the total size of a website isn't that much of a big problem when you're still in the area of counting some hundred lines of code or even thousands of characters. So what ? If a less-image-savvy developer or framework tosses in a 24-bit PNG for the sake of a soft shadow, I'd have a much bigger problem with that...

Second: no scripts ? Come one, how bare bones is that website ??

Third: as a developer, you might be (and should be) concerned about the technical complexity of the website, and Muse is indeed a convoluted mess of files, coding, scripts, variables, etc. But like the Muse team's spokespersons always said: "Muse's code is not fit for human consumption." In other words: hands off ! You probably won't like its code and construction, but as long as a browser can chew and digest it properly, it's okay.

But that's also where Muse's problem grew: they couldn't keep its code properly running anymore for all implemented and desirable features. And that's why Adobe decided to steer away from the promise of a DIY web design tool like Muse, and decided to go for a design-only (no production) tool with Adobe XD.

How Dreamweaver will fare, I really don't know...

[dannygarber]

No offense Nancy, but it's not free if it requires a Creative Cloud Plan.

[Nancy OShea]

dannygarber  wrote

No offense Nancy, but it's not free if it requires a Creative Cloud Plan.

OK.  Let me put it another way.  You cannot purchase it separately.  As a CC subscriber, you pay nothing for web hosting, server maintenance, upgrades, bandwidth or the Portfolio CMS.  And you can create multiple websites with it.  

[carla45979755]

Preran, whilst this is not your issue directly, we have not heard from management about this, and it shows both a lack of empathy and lack of interest in your customer base. Essentially, the core issue is that Muse gave visual designers an opportunity to run their own websites and develop functional websites for themselves, and others. It also gave students an easy ability to learn the ins and outs of graphic design elements on websites.

Most of us saw it as the natural progression from Dreamweaver which is, at best, a pig to use for a non-web designer. In addition to this, we don't have the time to teach our students how to use it.

Dreamweaver requires HTML, CSS, and Javascript knowledge, whilst Muse negates these, making it more accessible to the general public and to one-man businesses. Whilst the rest of the digital world moves toward more accessible and easier to use software, Adobe reverses and goes back 10 years to a piece of software that severely limits accessibility. This can only mean that management have been given some financial impetus to remove Muse.

XD is an half-arsed replacement that does little more than provide an alternative for Photoshop, with less of the diversity of function. Essentially, it is an useless tool for anything other than coming up with ideas.

A great deal of anger is being levelled at Adobe management who have remained quiet, and let everyone else deal with the issue. There has been no acceptance of culpability from management, and no explanation either. It is clear to all that this is yet another example of the moral fibre of a company that has created a market monopoly and have a narcissistic attitude towards their customers (e.g: charging separately for Adobe Captivate which needs Illustrator and Photoshop).

[ALsp]

Hi Carla,

Dreamweaver only "requires" HTML, CSS, and JavaScript knowledge if one follows the workflow suggested by the core group of ACPs that answer questions on the Dreamweaver forum. When Dreamweaver was still a popular program, it was driven by an extension community that offered tools to automate just about everything. In its heyday, that community offered a huge mix of free and commercial tools. Because of how Adobe has allowed Dreamweaver to be ruled by coders and wannabe coders, the extension community is lost to these forums. The good news is that the one or two quality developers still around have their own customer bases - comprised of users who would never dream of posting on Adobe's forums. So, there are many ways to use Dreamweaver without coding, if that's your thing. Hopefully, people will get wise before Dreamweaver is killed off.

[sebrame]

Initially, my main company site was in WordPress. When I switching to Muse, the clamor was that Muse was going to kill my SEO. At the time I was battling to achieve position in the top 10 SERP's, something that I was seemingly never able to do. Two weeks after duplicating my site in Muse, I was in the top 5 SERP's, sometimes even the #1 spot. The phone started ringing, as they say.

Fast forward to early 2018 when the announcement was released, and I began searching for a replacement platform. Back to WordPress I went.

Within a week of recreating my site in WordPress(Elementor), the site dropped to 25th in SERP's, After struggling, I've seen it move to the 16th spot, and has remained there for a few months.

[DS WildOutWest]

Like other database oriented Content Management Systems, WordPress generates pages dynamically (vs. static html pages) A consequence of this are layers of optimization needed to make SEO even work... it's a point of confusion that WP has great SEO tools - because this architecture is not good for SEO, many complex and sophisticated solutions have evolved - many of which have become the target of Google's algorithms because they appear to be gaming the system...  I would recommend looking at WebFlow over the roundtrip to WordPress you have described.

[sebrame]

This would be easier to accept if the top 5 SERPs weren't also WordPress sites. Webflow was one of the platforms that I trialed when looking for a replacement for Muse, which I rejected.

[sebrame]

Just ran across something in a tutorial on an Opt-In lead generation WordPress plugin. Not suggesting this as a replacement for Muse, but found the capabilities of this plugin's visual editor very interesting. Remind you of anything? In a world of fluid, responsive design, and the design limitations that it brings, it's interesting to see something like this.

Convert Pro Review - A New Kind Of WordPress Lead Opt-in Plugin With Superpowers To Grow Your List -...

[BenPleysier]

Just viewed a comment from an ex-Webflow user. See here https://community.wappler.io/t/first-wappler-app-now-live/5100

[Ussnorway]

thanks Ben, its nice to see someone take his first steps into code

[sebrame]

Interesting, but I wasn't really speaking of the ability to create a modal popup. What I found interesting was the drag-n-drop functionality, and ability to place object anywhere on the page. That was singularly possible with Muse, and a couple of other similar platforms that have also been abandoned.

[BenPleysier]

As Peter has hinted at, the web is still in it's infancy, there are many and rapid changes occurring all the time. The two governing factors are

• The W3C Advisory Committee
• Browser Implementation

A drag and drop method may seem to be the ultimate in web design, particularly for designers who concentrate on design rather than code, but these tools are not keeping (cannot keep) up with the changes. Adobe have found out the hard way despite true web developers warning them from the start.

There are tools out there that compromise, to name a couple, Pinegrow (great for front end development) and Wappler (great for front and back end development). For goodness sake, stay away from WIX and the like.

I was taught: 'when you are on a good thing, stick to it'. Unfortunately, this is not always possible.

[marcelt2t]

I was hoping to find that nearly a year after the EOL announcement, that there would be a new front runner available to replace muse.  Since I couldn't find anything in this forum I decided to dedicate some time to the list compiled by this group and see what each (most) offer.  I did find some promising tools, but alas not a single one which was capable of what I was able to achieve in muse.

Unlike most, I didn't use muse to create wonderful websites.  Instead I used it to create fully immersive prototypes and proof of concepts for the UX field.  I only mention this to highlight the fact that not everyone cares about the governing bodies, web standards nor frameworks, since my outcomes where never intended to be consumed by the public.  Muse gave me an excellent sandbox that I was able to use to convey custom interactive idea's.  It made it much easier for me to convey concepts to my stakeholders.  Alas this ability will be gone soon without replacement, suggesting I need to take a huge step backward in my professional offerings – due in most part to greed, NOT the inability to keep up with technology.  I know first hand that muse was abandoned simply to move development resource to another 'big bet', being XD (insider info). But I'm sorry adobe, too little, too late, you should have stuck with the product which already had traction and found a way to move it forward.

Given this is an Adobe forum, I may as well summarize my findings for Adobe XD:

• NOT a webdesign tool: simply a glorified prototyping tool with a limited set of interactions (think Illustrator meets Hypercard [kuos if you get this reference]).  This prevents experimenting with interaction patterns.
• Proprietary, non-secure, output:  Projects can only be published to Adobe Cloud, and can't be protected from the public (this feature is only in beta).  This is a non-starter IMHO since who wants to prototype with all eyes watching?  Not to mention most organization have security rules preventing development on third-party servers without extensive legal agreements in place (even with password protection, which I repeat XD doesn't offer).
• To much emphasis on animation:  I'm sorry, ain't nobody got time for that.  Yes animation is nice, but it shouldn't come at the cost of bigger challenges, and adobe seems to have made it a primary focus.

Myself, as mentioned, I will likely have to take a large step backward.  From every tool I reviewed for 'my' needs, it looks like Invision Studio stands out.  It's also not perfect, but from what I see, I believe it has an excellent future.  It's integration with invision cloud make it seem like the perfect end2end solution (and its FREE).  And yes, I just poo-pooed XD for outputting to cloud, but who doesn't have an approved invision license these days? (if you are looking for a webdesign tool, Studio isn't it, hence my step backward).

Second in line is Pinegrow, but I don't relish the learning steep curve to do what I was already doing, and spend more time doing it.

.

[Peter Villevoye]

Great post, Marcel !

I liked many of your points, even your plea to have kept Muse alive (albeit after its demise...)

We can absolutely agree on the statement that Muse entered a challenging arena and did a unique and amazing job.

Making sure that websites would truly work online, was the hardest thing for the team, costing – indeed – too much developer resources. And without any guarantee that Muse would be able to keep up with every new standard, or framework, or Google quirk, or SEO gizmo...

But what I don't understand is that you were working with Muse merely for mock-ups (and have been happy with that), while 'blaming' XD for doing nothing but prototypes. I guess you're missing the slew of Muse's built-in and third-party widgets for all kinds of interactions ? On the other hand you're not happy about XD's obsession with animation, while this is becoming a very strong side of it, making it possible to create many kinds of (micro) animations and transitions. We're not there yet, but XD is very promising.

BTW: you can already secure your creations with a pass-word. The previous Share method was "public" but who'd be going to try out a randomly constructed link to peek into someone's proposal ? But they're much safer now. And that beta feature of sharing creations "privately" is intended for self-hosting, the next level in security.

Ahh... HyperCard and HyperTalk ! That was the final syntax I cared to dig into. After that, I simply lost appetite for all the others. No ActionScript, JavaScript, PHP, Python – whatever. Just gimme buttons !

[marcelt2t]

Thanks Peter,

I fear you misread, I wrote that I use Muse for "fully immersive prototypes" – going beyond anything that XD can come close to delivering – due to muse's amazing ability to customize and/or hack each elements.  I dove into the widgets, but only rarely as need be. The cherry on top was that I could use the same skills to create my portfolio site 🙂

Tap me if you wanna discuss deeper.

My thought about animations were simply about there being bigger fish to fry (priorities)

Security? Well I'll let you call my guys at the big blue company :-), but if you say self hosting, then we're onto something.  What's the timeline for that? It's the primary reason I looked away.

[Peter Villevoye]

Okay, "fully immersive prototypes" of what ? Website, apps, ticket vending machines, POS ? And how did you "hack" Muse's code, when most developers are saying that Muse's code is not very comprehensible ? But never mind – any discussion about that is getting close to a forensic report on a dead entity...

I also hope the XD team will quickly expand its animation and transition capabilities. That's soooo crucial for making prototypes feel more alive in its own specific style. The groundwork is there, the paradigm and interface is quite alright, and it's fairly complete with the basic ease-in/out settings.

The timeline for the self-hosting feature might be tracked at XD's UserVoice forum, and as a matter of fact: the feature is already available to Adobe CC Enterprise account members. You can tell your boys at the big blue company that. I bet they can obtain such an account for you.