Adobe Muse EOL announcement - Alternatives to Adobe Muse?

[Preran]

Hi all,

For those of you that haven't received the email around the Adobe Muse EOL, see the FAQ Product Announcement that tries to answer some the common questions around the announcement including the reasons behind the decision.

Before we proceed with discussing alternatives, the Muse application will continue to open on your computer. You will be able to continue to edit existing or create new websites with the application. Adobe Muse will continue to be supported until May 20, 2019 and will deliver compatibility updates with the Mac and Windows OS or fix any bugs that might crop up when publishing Muse sites to the web. However, it is quite possible that web standards and browsers will continue to change after Adobe stops support for the application.

While there is no 1:1 replacement for Adobe Muse at this stage, the FAQ link above provides some alternatives. Also, Adobe is making our own investment in DIY website creation and welcomes all Muse customers to join our upcoming pre-release program for a new format that will be introduced this year as part of Adobe Spark. Build a beautiful website—in minutes | Adobe Spark

That being said, I would like to open up this discussion for discussing other solutions and migration paths. It would be ideal if we could focus our efforts on the topic at hand.

Thanks,

Preran

[Ris11]

Reversing the decision to stop Muse would be the right thing to do for Adobe!

It might not be easy, but it would reestablish the image of Adobe as a trustworthy partner in a big way!

[Red Point]

Exactly, the issue is not coding vs. design based development. The issue is that I sold the "In-Browser Editing" feature to my clients, and this feature will just disappear, so I basically sold them hot air. Many clients had doubts because of previous CMS issues they experienced, so I sold them on the fact that it was a simple solution and Adobe was big trustworthy company. That is my issue. What do I do if clients sue me now? To belittle the issues with mediocre PR tactics now is just the icing on the cake!

[Red Point]

There was a man named Jesus of Nazareth who also employed "Evangelists". Unlike Adobe he died for his followers. Adobe reversed his ideals by sacrificing us instead, for the sake of silver coins. Next time you borrow terms from history for your marketing strategies Adobe, contemplate their deeper meaning and act accordingly!

[Peter Villevoye]

Hi there, everyone. I've been quite busy last days, so jumping a bit late.
Please excuse me that I haven't read all 646 posts of the last three days.

I'm an independent self-employed non-biased web software freak.

And I hope to be of any help to you.

My first advice: stop harassing Preran or even Adobe.

Muse is out. We have to live with it and find our way again.

I've seen applications vanish from Adobe's repertoire (and others as well) and there's absolutely no point in sheer protesting against it, once the decision has been made. It's their business, these are their products, they set the rules. You buy into that, or you don't. You support it with your money, or you spend your money on the competition. Please do. Don't expect that you have any say in this.

This is how the cookie crumbles.

Personally, I liked Muse a lot. The application gave me that free-style design feeling, like PageMaker once did for print media, more than 30 years ago. But Muse didn't just mimic a sheet of paper – that would be terribly wrong. It offered web-compliant features, like the fluidity of text, responsiveness, web typography...

But we have to move on.

Some general replies and pointers from my side:

Muse will probably work for a few more years, and websites created with Muse won't go dead on March 26th 2019. So we have absolutely at least a year to get our act together. A website not needing any maintenance, restyling, or overhauling in three years, is allowed to fade away...

No, Muse will not return.
Come on, the writing was on the wall, two years ago. When Muse plunged itself into the development pitfall of becoming more responsive. I wish it had revamped and promoted its Alternative Layout solution... but that's another story. At Adobe MAX 2016 it was clear that the marketing and management budgets went already and rightfully to Adobe XD. They won't come back on that decision.

Muse can't be offered as opensource. Like with almost all commercially developed software, there are too many technical patents and licenses going on in such tools. Adobe can't legally just put that all up for grabs. That's simply a dream that can't come true. Snap out if it !

Muse was based on the idea of a designer, flying solo, creating, producing, and managing the whole website. That still seemed a viable workflow many years ago, but times have changed. Small websites are nowadays being created with simple Do-it-yourself online services (with lots of preset stuff to select from). And mid-sized to larger websites are created with frameworks, either by unicorns or collaborating teams, in which the designers plays of course an important role.

Spark Page is not an alternative. It's not a solution to migrate to at all, and I wouldn't even try to rebuild anything from Muse back into it. However, there's a new Spark sibling in the works. We don't know much about it yet, but I guess it will be something like Wix or Canva, to cater for those Do-it-yourself print and website creators. And I bet it will tap heavily into using trackable assets like penny-paid stock material. Forget being able to migrate to it. Adobe has better things to do than to worry about getting this tool to be compatible with a tool that didn't want to be compatible with anything in the first place, and which they already wrote off two years ago.

The three alternatives to consider are i.m.h.o. Adobe XD, WebFlow and the elephant in the room: WordPress.

Adobe XD, because it deals with the designing part of a website brilliantly, and it's totally geared at teamwork. Yes, it competes with names like Axure, InVision and Sketch and a slew of plugins. And yes, it's not there yet, it still needs to grow. And no, you won't build a whole website with it – that's a task for the front-end and back-end developers in your team.

WebFlow is actually a visually beefed up and technically toned down Dreamweaver. It's an online tool, based on knowing how HTML works, but without the need to code. So you can work somewhat free-form, but you do need to understand how a web page content 'flows'. It offers many benefits (lots of eye-candy, a bit of CMS, hosting, etcetera). Check it out !

WordPress needs no introduction. It's a free framework, and it offers a jungle of free and paid templates, plugins, consultancy, and the kitchen sink. But when you can't find what you need, you're in knee-deep coding, tweaking HTML and CSS to get a tilted banner on top of that automated header. So just be happy with templates like "Onyx & Marble" or "Stealth 2018".

"What do I have to tell my clients ?"

Tell them that the web is a living medium, that completely changes every few years. If they want to maintain their website, they need to invest in it, just like you have to invest in keeping up with everything. Just blame Adobe. And you know what ? Sometimes such a drastic change works out for the better, eventually. And it even helped you to earn money !

PS: please don't assume or state that Adobe investors are any bit influenced by this decision. Its stock price has been wiggling it's way up all year and will continue to do that. The value went down a few points on Monday – so what ? Do you really think this was caused by the Muse announcement ? No way. I bet it will be up again after the weekend...

[sstuart48]

The brutal truth from @Peter Villevoye.

It's 100% truth. It's time to go to Webflow (for me anyway). I'll also continue to use XD as I use it as a great visual guide when using Muse, and will now leverage it for Webflow.

Thank you Peter.

[Illostraight]

If it's out, why not sell it or open source it so developers can move it forward? No one has given that explanation.

[Peter Villevoye]

I explained why no open source: too many patents and licenses are involved.

[Peter Villevoye]

And the same is true for selling it.

Adobe doesn't want competitors to lay hands on patents and licenses involved in Muse. It's not like selling a car...

[karlkramer]

rubbish

[Peter Villevoye]

@karlkramer

Which reply do you think is rubbish ?

I've written quite a few by now...

[DesignDealer]

Thank you for Portfolio, Spark or XD but then sincerely, it's cat pee! These products are for amateurs who want to have fun with 3 or 4 photos! These 3 software have no future in the creative world!

[Zav]

Agreed, MUSE is a serious platform for designers to create stunning websites for clients who don't need CMS.. I still can't believe this, this will dramatically affect what I can offer as a self employed designer

[Peter Villevoye]

Those of you who are worried about how to "design" websites:

you should team up with a developer !

Many websites which were built with Muse have started relatively small, and we could easily design and manage them. But most websites grow larger. Clients want more features. So it often comes to a point where you have to admit: I can't handle this anymore. Do you as a designer want to implement a CMS, learn the security requirements regarding creditcard payments, take care of ever-changing laws around privacy ? I bet you don't. So in this era of expanding web applications, we need those nerdy developers to help us out.

So: the client does the marketing,

you define the design, the interaction,

and the developer does the production.

That's why we have Adobe XD.

[Ris11]

@ Peter Villevoye

Team up with a developer is the right thing to do fore some projects.

But it is not the best way to go for every project!

And yes, if you team up with a developer, you can use Adobe XD.

But Adobe is late here and only trying to catch up. There are other tools, that are already more established and used by designers. I would suggest to use one of those.

[BUSKIRKS.com]

SOLUTION BUILDING!
Blocs - Fast, easy to use and powerful visual web design software that lets you create beautiful and...

[Peter Villevoye]

@riss11

Team up with a developer is the right thing to do fore some projects.

But it is not the best way to go for every project!

You're right, smaller projects don't fit that workflow. And I'm certainly going to miss Muse to do just that.

But Adobe isn't interested anymore in developing and maintaining a tool like Muse for such smaller websites. There are many other competing tools online to do just that, and the new Spark tool will try to join that league and take a more lean approach to cater for such purposes. So for the meantime, you could consider to keep using Muse and wait for that new Spark tool to arrive. Small projects might be easily rebuilt (or even redesigned) with that tool.

And yes, if you team up with a developer, you can use Adobe XD.

But Adobe is late here and only trying to catch up. There are other tools, that are already more established and used by designers. I would suggest to use one of those.

Yes, they're late to that party (as always...) But should they just leave it then ?

And did you also notice what's happening in the Sketch vs Invision ball park ?

Many UX designer started using Sketch (Mac-only) and used plugins from various developers, one of them (and a big one) being Invision. But by now, Invision has developed their own Sketch-rival called "Studio" and try to get rid of Sketch. How's that for a fierce and fast moving strategy ? BTW, one of the key managers who worked at Adobe Edge Animate, went very soon to Adobe XD, and then left Adobe for Invision. It's a small world...

[Ris11]

@Peter Villevoye

Yes, who knows, maybe the future Spark will be a great tool. I do not doubt, that Adobe is capable to develop something great. And maybe you will be able to rebuild Muse sites with it. At the time, I rebuilt several old Adobe Golive sites with Muse, it was worth the effort.

But still, after what just has happen, I would be very cautious about getting dependent of the same company again.

Also I do not like the idea of being forced to use an online editor. I have done projects in Wix. Wix actually has quite a nice visual editor, it is not as good as Muse and somehow restricted, but it follows a similar, very design oriented approach and you are not forced to use templates. I used Wix because customers wanted to be able to "edit everything". And that is exactly what they did. And now, their websites do look somehow "different" but not in the best way, I am not happy with the results, but at least they seem to be. Also I got a lot of calls like "how can I do this?", "I have a problem with doing this and that, what shall I do?"

About XD: Of course it is okay that Adobe tries to catch up here if they want to. But after what just happened to Muse, they should not count too much on us to support them as users in this effort.

We do not need XD, we need Muse.

[Zav]

Just no. The similarity would be a web developer not consulting a Graphic Designer, and nor should they need to. Muse has a significant place.

[bartl]

Peter Villevoye, teaming up with a developer is certainly a nice idea - and certainly not new to any of us. (We probably all do it once in a while when a huge project is coming up.) Let me break the news to you: a developer costs money. So either it is less money for me at one end, or higher fees for the client on the other end ... which he is not often willing to pay.

And maybe you should indeed browse through all those 650 emails you have skipped so willingly. Because then one thing might get clear to you: it is the lack of information we receive from Adobe that makes us furious. The short notice. The de facto lack of real alternatives within their range of applications. The arrogant behavior.

Best,

bartl

[Peter Villevoye]

@Bartl:

Teaming up with a developer is certainly a nice idea - and certainly not new to any of us. (We probably all do it once in a while when a huge project is coming up.) Let me break the news to you: a developer costs money. So either it is less money for me at one end, or higher fees for the client on the other end ... which he is not often willing to pay.

Of course it's no news to me that a developer costs money, DUH !

But don't assume your client is not willing to pay for the extra costs.

And maybe you should indeed browse to all those 650 emails you have skipped so willingly. Because then one thing might get clear to you: it is the lack of information we receive from Adobe that makes us furious. The short notice. The de facto lack of real alternatives within their range of applications. The arrogant behavior.

The announcement is looking one year ahead – that isn't exactly a short term notice, is it ? I think you just didn't want to get such a message at all, which I understand. I'd also rather see Muse being continued, but I also know it's wiser not to spoil any more time on trying to turn back time. Look ahead, maybe not today or this week, but in the coming month. We have time to prepare ourselves, and a discussion like this hopefully helps to find existing solutions. And who knows what lies ahead of us, in the coming months ?

BTW, I read around 400 of the previous messages, noticed a lot of redundancy and harassment, so decided to jump in without reading the remainder. Most people just jump in here and start shouting without reading a single message...

[bartl]

Peter Villevoye,

"The announcement is looking one year ahead – that isn't exactly a short term notice, is it ?"  ... & contd.

We are talking about NOW. The current update 2018.1 is the last one. THIS IS short notice without any warning.

You are probably talking about the "technical support" mentioned in the Adobe release. They are willing (...) to give us support for one further year. I tell you one thing: if that technical support is just as shitty as it had developed during the past 1/1.5 years we can completely forget about it. ... It used to be very good before, indeed. I do not expect this quality to return. Why would they?

So you did actually browse through the messages, contrary to what you wrote before. Why did you say then you wouldn't? It is like I said: it is Adobe's behavior and arrogance that makes people furious. And we got every right to be upset.

[Lonnie_Kunkel]

Quarkxpress has an indesign import now. I have Quark and will upgrade for free to the newest version. Once I get that out of the way, I will end my CC subscription, which I have had since 2013. I will use Affinity products to replace photoshop and Illustrator. And there are plenty of decent Acrobat replacements. I will then have to redesign all the sites I have from scratch. But I will not use Dreamweaver. There are plenty of other web dev tools out there for coding.

You just lost a loyal customer.

[Peter Villevoye]

Many of you want to sort of 'punish' Adobe by cancelling your CC subscription, so you're feverishly looking for viable alternatives for popular CC applications. Okay, well, the Affinity applications are indeed flourishing ! (Trust me, any designer with a crush for elegant tools, shouldn't even try to go GIMP or Inkscape.) And even the old dog QuarkXPress flirts with you in a very tempting way...

It does require learning other applications, and some tweaking or redesigning is inevitable, but you seem very well willing to do that.

But wait, why would you toss out everything, just because Adobe forces you to to rethink your web design strategy for the better ?

You're only punishing yourself...

Judge the company by its tools.

[hunterscotty]

Yes, an Adobe are falling behind rivals in terms of the functionality/cost relationship of their tools. I've been using Adobe products for over 25 years.

Ending Muse is simply the final straw for many of us.

[sstuart48]

Peter you are bang on the money.

Despite my absolute burning fury through the many posts I have left on here.

It comes down to business.

I will continue to use Adobe CC for PS / AI / ID / Premiere / etc because I'll only punish myself.

You should've been involved in this thread since Monday, to provide the real clarity required.

I personally prefer this brutal truth compared to the pussy footing around the last 4 days.