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Adobe Muse EOL announcement - Alternatives to Adobe Muse?

Adobe Employee ,
Mar 26, 2018 Mar 26, 2018

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Hi all,

For those of you that haven't received the email around the Adobe Muse EOL, see the FAQ Product Announcement that tries to answer some the common questions around the announcement including the reasons behind the decision.

Before we proceed with discussing alternatives, the Muse application will continue to open on your computer. You will be able to continue to edit existing or create new websites with the application. Adobe Muse will continue to be supported until May 20, 2019 and will deliver compatibility updates with the Mac and Windows OS or fix any bugs that might crop up when publishing Muse sites to the web. However, it is quite possible that web standards and browsers will continue to change after Adobe stops support for the application.

While there is no 1:1 replacement for Adobe Muse at this stage, the FAQ link above provides some alternatives. Also, Adobe is making our own investment in DIY website creation and welcomes all Muse customers to join our upcoming pre-release program for a new format that will be introduced this year as part of Adobe Spark. Build a beautiful website—in minutes | Adobe Spark

That being said, I would like to open up this discussion for discussing other solutions and migration paths. It would be ideal if we could focus our efforts on the topic at hand.

Thanks,

Preran

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Engaged ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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For us Mac users, this looks like something I can live with. Still going to learn Wordpress.

Thanks, GAR!

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Participant ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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Just wanted to say thanks for the replies and advice I received from this thread regarding my site and test site built using Webflow.

I know I won't be popular on here, but for me, I think Webflow is the future.  All this 'learn to code' stuff seems to be a backwards direction. Embrace the tools that are there to make our lives easier!  It's a bit like refusing to use an Excel Spreadsheet just because you have a PHD in Maths!

I'm unsubscribing from this thread now, Happy Easter!

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Enthusiast ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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It doesn't make any sense to talk about Muse alternatives until we answer the ultimate question: Where is Adobe headed and what is their strategy for the next 5 years? Why is it important? Adobe is still the industry leader for the creative community. What they do, will affect many smaller businesses. Companies in the creative industry, ad-companies, one-man shows but also software companies & ASP providers like webflow.

I have done some serious research & reflection on the matter in the past day and what I came to realize was frightening! But before I share my view on this topic, I would like to ask you Peter (Villevoye), what your assessment is on the matter. You seem to be very knowledgeable on all things Adobe...

Please, let us know where you think Adobe is heading with "creative" cloud and all the apps contained within (Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, Lightroom aso.). How do you think their new strategy will pan out for the creative community as a whole? I'm really curious to get your take on it, before I will happily share mine.

We are nearing 1000 entries and it would be sad to end these discussions in technicalities. I believe there is a real interest for understanding this discussion in a more broader context.

Bring it on Bro!

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LEGEND ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Red+Point  wrote

Please, let us know where you think Adobe is heading with "creative" cloud and all the apps contained within (Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, Lightroom aso.). How do you think their new strategy will pan out for the creative community as a whole? I'm really curious to get your take on it, before I will happily share mine.

Why not share your thought anyway?

Adobe is in the business of making money for its shareholders, it is not for anything else. Yes it may make products for the creative community, but just as the EOL of Muse and BC has proven, if they cannot see a return on their investment in a product that will satisfy shareholders it will be EOL'd.

Most companies see the internet as the way forward, (not the web, they are two completely different things) but at what level of participation? Reading many of the post in this discussion all I read is about the small site builder building cheap sites for clients, but does that really reflect the Adobes future client base.

Ask yourself what you would do if you where Adobe.

I would be lying if I said I though Dreamweaver was not the product to be EOL'd instead of Muse, but when one considers how many Muse users used BC for hosting, getting rid of both Muse and BC at the same time made better financial sense, as BC itself was EOL for a few years now.

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Explorer ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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As a graphic designer of 30+ years experience i've seen technology come then for it to go. When Aldus Pagemaker came onto the scene I was told I was redundant, a dinosaur. Interestingly I'm still here and Pagemaker, long gone. CC still serves the creative industry pretty well, Muse is just one program in the suite. I like it very much, InDesign like interface which made it very intuitive and a very useful tool for smaller less demanding websites and for non tech customers who are happy to pay for their site changes.

I don't know what sort of clients many who have posted on this forum have, not very demanding I would guess. Some of my client briefs have included complex CMS zoned for access to specific departments, graphic allowing for room sizes to be entered, integrated to product range to calculate size and costs, then display visual representation. I would like to see Muse or Webflow manage, I employed a coder, no other way to do it. To say that coding is finished is very wishful thinking, a desire that the world of web is going to become less demanding to accommodate those with no technical knowledge isn't going to happen, well not at least for a very long time yet. There is no substitute for skill and professionalism, and that is no reflection on good designers who can't code or coders who can't design, hopefully not all seeking to be Jack of all trades.

On the other topic of whether Adobe should have dumped Muse, they should I think have phased it out if it had to go, over something like a five year period so that not only those with current sites had ample time to migrate and for those developing the plugins time to find new markets.

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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Please, let us know where you think Adobe is heading with "creative" cloud and all the apps contained within (Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, Lightroom aso.). How do you think their new strategy will pan out for the creative community as a whole? I'm really curious to get your take on it, before I will happily share mine.

agreed

– for anyone who still wants to sign the petition since the link has not been posted in a while –

https://www.change.org/p/adobe-systems-adobe-do-not-discontinue-muse

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Enthusiast ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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Adobe made a shocking announcement a few days ago, that Muse will soon end. Adobe offered only a very brief explanation as justification: "Trends in recent years have caused the company to evolve its strategies"! Are these trends good for us? What are these new "evolved" strategies that Adobe has adopted? Do you want to know?

Let's do some soul searching: Companies like Envato have sold millions of readymade templates for Adobe products since years and they made millions doing so. By making the lives of designers a lot easier, they have also done something huge in a much more subtly and silent way: They have slowly started to monopolize the creative realm, much like Amazon has done by taking business away from the streets. When creative people get lazy and stop to create, cloud-based technologies will happily fill the ranks.

It's been on the horizon for some time: Companies like Wix catering fast-food websites to anyone (Rest in peace Muse!); Online video magicians like Magisto, WeVideo (Rip Premiere), Animaker with animated videos online (RIP Adobe Character Animator), gazillion photo apps (RIP Lightroom and Photoshop), online vector apps and so on. The list is endless. Let's not forget, as computer processing power improves even further, server technologies evolve, and artificial intelligence has finally outsmarted us, all areas of the creative industry will be affected. This will include Premiere and After Effects users as well, even though you might still feel you still have lots of time left. You don't. Things are moving way to quickly.

To me Adobe's mid- and long-term strategy is crystal clear: ALL apps & services will eventually be service, AND project based. You will have to pay for every project that you create using their products. It will also be template based. You will also pay for that. It will also be hosted, so you will also pay for that. You will also become more and more dependent as you use their services. If technology makes it possible, which large money-making cooperation living in the pressure cooker of investors today would not? Its way to tempting.

What Adobe is effectively attempting to do right now, employing their new strategy, is to re-take income which they feel they have lost to companies like Envato, Wix and many others. Judging from Adobe's reaction to our outcries in recent days (which was zero to none), you as a creative entity have a very minor to no role to play in all this.

By making features server based and easier to use, Adobe has decided to broaden its appeal and go for the consumer directly: Consumers that until recently have been the clients of the creative industry. In fact, yes these have been our clients. By making all apps server based, with accounts tied to many other goodies, there is of course also a downside for the consumer, as the consumer becomes more and more dependent. Just like we have become dependent on Google, Facebook and Amazon. For convenience sake. Btw, who of you is willing to cancel their Facebook account, knowing you will lose access to WhatsApp (yes, it's part of Facebook). Now you know why its been free. Its not. Its the leash keeping you tied in. 

If everything is server based, all transactions and services become traceable, which in turn will greatly benefit Adobe's larger marketing cloud. It's their service that has already brought in 1/3 of revenues for Adobe. Its only a matter of time until the marketing executives paying for these services will eventually be made obsolete by them. You buy into convenience to quickly, you will get run over eventually. Muse users are feeling it right now and its never easy to feel betrayed. Muse users will smile and hand you good advice that they have heard themselves before: Move on!

Adobe's new strategy? Yes, it essentially entails the burial of your creative business! Creativity will now be sold to consumers directly and turned into a fast food product. There might be some room for Chefs cooking up the exceptional. But that's more like a handful out of a million.  

Photoshop users, video editing folks and all of you looking at Muse user's unfortunate days from a safe distant: You will be next, and your safety margin is shrinking rapidly! I understand that Muse is only the beginning of Adobe's new evolved strategy.  A bully will always turn his attention to the weakest link first. If you don't help the weak, you will be next.

From an ethical stand point I can make to following observation: Adobe is not just keeping up with an evolved world. Let's face it, it's also very tempting for a large corporation to sell features in an app every time someone uses web-based services, rather than selling those features one time to a creative community. When Apps were still software products, buying a license was good for years. Now we pay monthly. Very soon we will pay every time we use the service. Also, why should Adobe let clients in between re-sell to consumers, if Adobe has the technology and the money to do it directly?

What you will observe in the next years to come is the biggest heist in creative software history, subtly justified simply by two words "recent trends". You will see it start small (Muse) but slowly grow to encompass all apps you come to love. As we were taught in high school, if you turn up the heat slowly, frogs don't realize they're being cooked!

Trends in recent years, that phrase becomes the ultimate justification to sack our businesses. Just like Amazon has sacked so many street-based retail businesses in recent years, it's all justified to law makers as "recent trends". The downside of these trends has huge implications for many small companies, whose daily bread will become centralized in the hands of a few. Big co-operations are not creating new markets (as they should be) they are stealing ours. I don't quite see the benefit for our society as a whole in the long run. Correct me if I'm wrong! Soon there won't be any other business to turn to, since all areas will be affected. Planes won't need pilots and busses no driver.

Trends aside, the sinister aftertaste lies not solely in the fact that we as a creative community are silently being sacked, but in the fact that we have made Adobe who they are now. We paid Adobe and by doing so, we sadly paid for our own demise.

I would never dare to claim ill-intend on the part of any corporation's CEO's. They are getting paid to stir their ship into deeper waters were the fish are plenty. That they do so with lack a of social responsibility is another topic.

I do think we will see some legal and political battles ahead, as the rift between rich and poor will put a lot of pressure on breaking up (not only monopolies) but also centralized firms like Facebook, Google, Amazon and others. We are seeing the beginnings. Europe will lead the charge, I am sure. Maybe the US will follow.

Let me end by reminding us, just because something is legal, does not mean it is right or good. Neither for society or beneficial to each one of us for that matter. The common good is what has driven the Western World into the great nations they are today. Technology has become a threat to us, as technology does not understand the meaning of the words "common good". Artificial Intelligence will never understand the true meaning of these words, but it will have the tools to make their subjects go away.  

Let me conclude by broadening the context to include other fields, that most certainly will be affected as well (you may feel some sense of malicious joy now). Because it's not just us. Lawyers, especially those in defense of big corporation today, you should understand that the creation of contracts, license agreements and legal documents will be the next big hit in cloud-based services.

I am sure that as we are having this discussion right now, new AI technology are being developed that will render your legal services quicker, cheaper and more reliable than you will ever be able to provide them. And unlike a website that some will still take pride in, because it was created by a human being, no one will care who drafted up the license agreement. But it will affect ALL OF US and make us more dependent on a few large corporations.

You decide if that's a good thing. You decide if you want to accept trends blindly or help set them! The former makes us sheep, the later human beings.

Cheers.

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Engaged ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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@Red Point

Thank you for taking the time to write this, well done!

It isn't just a commentary on tech, it's the whole society.

The land, the oceans, the planet, you can say this about all of it.

There are downsides to growing old, but this is one way in which I don't mind the age I am.

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Explorer ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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well put togather. I see that not much different than you. I am happy for the new generations of creatives who give a sxxt about adobe / the majors and simply use the new (yet) independent companies and their tools. we grew up with psd 4, freehand, gilive, pagemaker. we saw wo much come and go. and while adobe survived selfconfident as they consumed their competitors like macromedia, the company became to slow and less flexible to react to trends, changes, developments. I do not understand, why they push us – they long term clients – away and treat like that. this will hurt their income in long term. from my younger collegues NOBODY uses adobe anymore (except indesign or after effects). and also those tools will get alternatives this year so I heard. as bad this decision from adobe felt this week, I am glad about it. I canceled the subscription today and my office will not use their services anymore. behance is next on our delete list … exciting times for indepence …

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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I just want to post this as my last post. I am upset about what adobe has done. But this is't about MUSE it is their business actions that they have done over and over and I am tired of seeing it happen over and over when many use it for their own business or personal doings. As I have stated in my recent post, how far will Adobe go? What will be next for them? Photoshop? I wonder how many businesses, big companies or advertisement companies will be very upset. So we need to keep fighting to have Adobe stop these actions.

Now I know I have stated in my last post that many of you seem to be dumb. I said that because it seems we are more then willing to throw up our hands, throw in the towel, wave the white flag and say you win Adobe we are happy with you screwing us over and our businesses. That is why we need to continue this fight against Adobe. But yet I do understand that technology always changes and will continue to change. The idea is, we are all on the same train. The train will switch tracks and continue to do so as along as you are on the same train. The only way to get off is at the next station which leaves you wondering around what to do now. So the choice is, either you want to remain on this train or get off. But the issue with that is that we have to still give respect to Adobe no matter what adobe does or any company or business. Either you sit down and shut up and deal with the change or get off and move on. Yeah I know sounds like being sheep, but that is how these companies want.

That is why I question some of these post that are marketing Webflow, I wonder if some of these posters are either from Webflow or Adobe using additional email created an account and doing what they can to deter people from flaming the fire that Adobe has caused. That is why I spoke up about marketing strategy that was going on, on here. They want people to move over to something that Adobe could have just continue on working on instead of giving up. I understand that adobe is in a fearing state because of all the other WYSIWYG, Drop and Drag, DIY site builders but what stands out from the rest to the creative cloud of it.

But with Spark, if a mobile device style web builder is the next best thing, then web designing career field is over because why would any business need to designer when they can do it themselves. Which is many reasons why the field is so saturated, even the cities around me. With Go Daddy web builder, Wix, Square Space, Weebly, Word Press and so on. Why do small businesses need a designer when they can do it themselves. It isn't about how good it looks, the only thing that matters that it works. People don't really care today how it works at least it works. That is why hand coding designing and developing field is mostly gone because when people have the expectation of "I want it now not later" and want it get my business out there ASAP not years or months or days. The expectation is minutes or hours. But also it is about money, would anyone who is starting up a business want to spend more when trying to run their business. That is why Spark a mobile device web designing tool will destroy the freelancer world. Even with facebook and google business end. Why do they need to spend money on someone who will promote our business or brand when they can do it themselves on face book or google business. It is coming to the point that this world is getting smaller and smaller and Adobe is going after those that don't want to spend a lot and want it very very very simple and with very very less time to do. This is my observation of all of this. I been slowly through out the years losing clients to them doing it themselves. So I know where the impact is growing from.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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@RedPoint: Strange – I received this email notification of an earlier message of you, but it's not on the forum page. Either you deleted it, or it was up for moderation. Nevertheless, I'll gladly respond to some of your questions and worries.

> It doesn't make any sense to talk about Muse alternatives until we answer the ultimate question:

> Where is Adobe headed and what is their strategy for the next 5 years?

I recall a colleague of mine doing an interview with Russel Brown, Adobe's principal Photoshop guru. He began his question "What do you think..." and Russell immediately interrupted: "Oh no, no... hahahaa, let me guess: the future question ? Don't ask me the future question, please..."

Only Adobe knows what they're planning for the very long term (and they won't tell us), and only time will tell if things will turn out that way. Their Flash hegemony (as planned before 2010) didn't work out well. Their Digital Publishing and Adobe Edge roadmaps very quickly took different turns. Photoshop was staged as an all purpose kitchen sink application, but that's also back to normal again. Three generations of mobile apps have been launched - two of them took a dive. And around 2012 there was no serious sign of Adobe Stock or a Marketing Cloud yet.

So a lot can happen in 5 years from now. As far as I know, Adobe is still very keen on "creating experiences". They are frantically building and acquiring all kinds of fun and frenzy tools (XD, Dimension, Spark, etc.) and they add useful features here and there (yes they do, come on, just admit it, it's not all that bad) and they support many exciting design projects and platforms. But in recent years they've become even more committed to measuring and analysing "experiences" – keeping track of creations and media, managing and repurposing assets.

Sometimes I jokingly tell people that the "CC" doesn't stand for "Creative Cloud" but "Counting Content".

Adobe ideally wants all published creations to be tagged, tracked, and tallied. If Adobe can't trace and analyse it themselves or through their partnering technologies, they won't support or make a tool for it. So renegade file formats and unhinged technologies like autonomous websites from Muse, self-hosted and open-source fonts, off-line ePubs from InDesign, and even locally stored PDFs and images, these are all endangering Adobe's new goals and policies. Applications that can publish content undetectable by Adobe's radar, are entering a corporate no-go area. Everything should be distributed by Adobe's Cloud (or their partners), otherwise these tools won't fly.

The Adobe MAX conventions are always a good thermometer for what's HOT (and all of the buzz will be out in the open) but for those who look further, it's also a good indication of what's NOT. E.g. at MAX 2016, Muse was already almost absent. Not a word of Muse during the keynote and just a handful of sessions (on a total of about 300) during the rest of the event. And Adobe XD stole everyone's thunder (and budget)...

> Adobe is still the industry leader for the creative community. What they do, will affect many smaller businesses. Companies in the creative industry, ad-companies, one-man shows but also software companies & ASP providers like webflow. Please, let us know where you think Adobe is heading with "creative" cloud and all the apps contained within (Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, Lightroom aso.). How do you think their new strategy will pan out for the creative community as a whole?

Adobe tools have been leading in print and imaging media, were/are relatively strong in animation and video, have always been quite weak in dedicated web and app design and development, and are almost non-existent in serious 3D. Every year, the number of competitors in every area is going up, and users are moving away from key desktop applications like Photoshop, Illustrator, and Premiere. Not in large numbers yet, but the tide is definitely changing.

But take a careful look at those numbers. Just like desktop publishing competing with old-school typesetting and lithography, new tools and new brands are not just aiming or catering for any existing 'real' designers (the conventional Adobe customer), but much more going after a quickly expanding number of new users (corporations and consumers) who need quicker and cheaper media (designing by selecting, picking, using templates and automated processes, to whip up something nice-looking). Consumers don't want tools and a blank canvas (old-school nor digitally), they want examples, templates, sample content, lots of pre-made stuff ! Corporations don't want just a designer with some Adobe CC tools, they want Adobe to help and facilitate them through their whole marketing and media strategy.

So you're right on the dollar with your observations.

https://2017.summit.adobe.com/na/sessions/summit-online/#17772

(Warning: this can be quite a boring video if you're a designer...)

Two more thoughts:

1. In the early years of my career I always thought that with each change or iteration of my tools, that would be my job for the rest of my life, until the day I'd be pushing daisies. Now I know that my career drastically changes almost every 5 to 7 years. From slaving over a Linotronic to get a page RIPped, to waiting and waiting on burning a CD ROM, from watching a 3D rendition progress line by line, to hitting browser refresh to see if the FTP upload and cache flush succeeded. Things will change, enormously, continuously. That's what we want as a society. Only old monuments and classical music remain...

2. Sometimes a bad thing happens for the better. When my beautiful VanMoof was stolen, I was furious. Not just because of the theft (which set me back quite some money) but also because the manufacturer didn't manufacture and sell that model anymore - of course. It had been upgraded to a more expensive electrical bicycle. After a few months of considering and hesitating, I bought that darned bike. And guess what ? I'm a totally happy camper now ! It's sooo good 🙂

Now, let's go where the party is !

See y'all at Adobe XD, creating folly facades 🙂

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Explorer ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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Aaah, the good old days, I owned a Linotronic. I too have been through the many changes heralded by new technologies, many with the aim of bringing design and production to the masses. They mostly failed, the same reason much of this will fail, either everything looked the same or was an appalling end user experience. Takes years to learn typography, never mind its only words and no-one notices, except they do. If you supply templates, the template will be used with some new pictures and a couple new boxes, but in the end still looks the same as the the web site before. You can usually spot a Wix or Wordpress site a mile off, or a Blurb book for that matter. Does this matter? Well that depends on how seriously you consider your individuality and brand to be. I often used an example with clients, you buy a box of chocolates in France and they wrap it in nice paper and give it a beautiful presentation, in the UK you buy a box of chocolates and you get "you wanna bag", its about pride and showing your customer how important you consider them to be.

Graphic design is not about making things look pretty it is about achieving results, knowing how to engage the customer. I liked Muse for that reason, I could design very individual sites without the horrible constraints of off the shelf web builders. I learned to code for the same reason, not because I am retrograde in my thinking as someone on this forum told me, it was because it gave me freedom from the constraints of a program that pushed me into concentrating on trying to get round its limitations rather than designing. Got that off my chest!

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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Amen... Amen... Amen...

I could not not if I even tried explian that better if I spent all year trying.

40 years in Design - and still feel restrained by this bloody web/grid/doitourway/orelse world.

nuff said.

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LEGEND ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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Hi Peter,

Thanks for the post. Regarding the web -

Adobe like many companies have slowly realised that the small local buisness site is fast becoming extinct, with the use of social media replacing many such sites. I would hazard at a guess that over 50% of questions that I have read in these forums over the last 3-5 years, often gave incorrect information when it came to what is possible, what can be used, should be used and just as important how to use. Even ACP's and Adobe staff have often posted incorrect info, or told users information that applied 5-10 years ago about the web and trends, but stopped being correct years ago.

Information was originally what the web exchanged, and information is once again what people are paying for. Adobe has simply gone back to the original web, and found that there is a lot of money to be made. Images, videos animations etc will always be a part of that information, but only when that information is relevant, in the correct format and indexable for the site owners. XD for a 'closed' back-end of a site, (along with the original MS offerings) has started, (possibly is) being used on large sites that are not open to the public, and these sites are talking in tera-bytes of information, (and charging large fees for access) most of which are using self-hosted MS/(possibly Adobe as well now) solutions to monitor what and how information is being accessed, and paying yearly fees that would make a the subscription from all Muse users look like a childs pocket money.

Adobe forums have yet to wake up to the  enterprise site though.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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Hi pziecina,

I would hazard at a guess that over 50% of questions that I have read in these forums over the last 3-5 years, often gave incorrect information when it came to what is possible, what can be used, should be used and just as important how to use. Even ACP's and Adobe staff have often posted incorrect info, or told users information that applied 5-10 years ago about the web and trends, but stopped being correct years ago.

I wonder which kinds of information have been so dead wrong all the time...

And regarding the second part of your reply:

XD for a 'closed' back-end of a site, (along with the original MS offerings) has started, (possibly is) being used on large sites that are not open to the public, and these sites are talking in tera-bytes of information, (and charging large fees for access) most of which are using self-hosted MS/(possibly Adobe as well now) solutions to monitor what and how information is being accessed

I'm afraid I don't understand this sentence correctly...

You mean Adobe and a selected number of high-profile clients are scrutinising the web and/or apps as we know them ? I don't see what's so special about that. Take any blog, publication, or report from the NN/Group (or ask them to make one), and you're on par.

I do agree that a large part of Adobe Inc. is very interested in enterprises doing data-related business, but there's still that other part doing creative stuff. And creative people shouldn't necessarily be bothered with that, if they don't want to. An Adobe rep once told me (about 4 years ago) that I should also steer my business into that Marketing Cloud direction, but I declined.

There's more than enough work to be done on the design side of media ! Maybe not with Muse, maybe with XD, maybe with other Adobe tools or even other brands. But there's no need for designers to (1) learn code (2) go into marketing and analytics and such, if they don't want to. I also hate it when managers and marketeers start doing design, because they think it's more efficient or economical...

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LEGEND ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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Hi Peter the sentence about incorrect info started with -

" Adobe like many companies have slowly realised that the small local buisness site is fast becoming extinct, with the use of social media replacing many such sites."

and the rest of the sentence was in this context.

As for the second part, I have read the leters XD so often in the last few days that I mistakenly used it for the experiance cloud, and in particular the Adobe Analytics section. (My fault for having XD on the brain whilst writing)

https://www.adobe.com/uk/data-analytics-cloud/analytics.html

Hopefully the correct info will make clear what I mean.

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LEGEND ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Peter+Villevoye  wrote

I also hate it when managers and marketeers start doing design, because they think it's more efficient or economical...

Not certain what you mean by this, or what relevance it has to the discussion?

Please clarify.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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In my opinion, advising designers that it's essential for them to learn to code is wrong. Developers should be coding, and designers should design. And if the design isn't too difficult, then the coding might be done by software. So developers can spend their precious time and intelligence on more complicated matters. I always get a bit grumpy when designers are given the impression that it's better, or more efficient or economical, when they do their own coding. It's a different job.

And about that "XD" – don't worry, Adobe only added to the confusion by rebranding their "Marketing Cloud" as part of the even larger "Experience Cloud". It's  whole set of clouds by now...

Experience Cloud.jpg

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Guest
Apr 01, 2018 Apr 01, 2018

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Peter hits the nail (again) when he reflects on the benigned advise (or even 'necessity') to designers to learn code. The same is true for marketeers using templates instead of learning how to properly design. Would a study on design be profitable to them? In a lot of cases yes. Is it necessary? No.

The 'necessity' of writing code is getting less and less (because of better software that produces code) and this hits many coders feelings to be necessary themselves. In the same manner most professional designers react on template-sellers. Psychologists call this behaviour cognitive dissonance: 'Templates are crapp because I know what good design is, and I won't admit that my true feeling is one of becoming superfluous and worthless'.

By the way: why do Dutch people always see it so clearly? Just a little joke to relieve this existential pain in another way.

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LEGEND ,
Apr 01, 2018 Apr 01, 2018

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I agree to a point but you also have to know (or ask) what designs can be coded... many great sounding design ideas are just not possible under basic html so people try weird work arounds and end up with something that only works on desktop or not in Windows, Androids etc

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Community Expert ,
Apr 01, 2018 Apr 01, 2018

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That's also very true !

I totally agree that knowledge of the basic principles of HTML and CSS is very practical when designing for web or app or anything else 'fluid'. Just like acknowledging that JavaScript can't do all the imaginable interactive and visual magic like real programming or 3D gaming frameworks can.

So a designer needs to know the gist of these conditions and restrictions in order to create valid and viable designs.

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Engaged ,
Apr 01, 2018 Apr 01, 2018

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Couldn't agree more, as a designer who cannot code but can design

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LEGEND ,
Apr 01, 2018 Apr 01, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Peter+Villevoye  wrote

In my opinion, advising designers that it's essential for them to learn to code is wrong. Developers should be coding, and designers should design. And if the design isn't too difficult, then the coding might be done by software. So developers can spend their precious time and intelligence on more complicated matters. I always get a bit grumpy when designers are given the impression that it's better, or more efficient or economical, when they do their own coding. It's a different job.

I don't think designers must know how to code, or coders how to design, but it would be nice if both took a little time to understand each other.

Most designs can be translated into a web page, (even responsive) now, and a lot of the tools developers use make what could be simple look complicated. The problem for developers and the tools we use when trying to explain them to none developers, is often one of understanding why we require them in a certain format.

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Explorer ,
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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here is our answer to Help with using Adobe Muse CC​ and ADOBE in general:

thank you for the last 20 years. and bye.
it was not me, it was you.

OUR AGENCY JUST CANCELED 

Bildschirmfoto 2018-03-31 um 16.28.41.png

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Guest
Mar 31, 2018 Mar 31, 2018

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Kündigungsgebühr...That's very interessant - I read them never before....

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