Closing Muse ? Are you serious over there ?

[Erotokritos]

Helloooooo! Over there, are you listening to me?

I think you have to take a close look to stopping support of the Muse project.

We have spent a lot of time learning how to use Muse, we have created a large number of customers with websites through Mouse, and we continue.

If you respect your customers, you should think again.

Muse is not Flash to have security issues or its works not supported by browsers. Although the flash continues, the name is changed to Animate.

Please respect us and continue the good work on Muse.

God bless America.

Erik

[bartl]

Illostraight, you know what also helps to find hidden obstacles? Try to google sth like "problems with ... xy", so in the WP context it would be "problems with Wordpress" or "problems with installing Wordpress". It's a bit time consuming but I found this pretty useful.

[Illostraight]

Thanks for your help and everyone else's! This has been a tough few days.

[W_J_T]

Lonnie_Kunkel  wrote

@Illostraight I agree -- Sparkle is as close as you can get to Muse. I also like Pinegrow. I didn't think Blocs or Webflow were user friendly. Pinegrow allows for static site CMS, and Wordpress theme design. I'm actually leaning to getting Sparkle for some projects and Pinegrow for others.

Mac users.

Yes, Sparkle has the ability for organic drag and drop and manipulation similar to a page layout app or similar to Muse.

It's similar to what FreewayPro offered with those abilities before they closed their business and then reopened. Now Freeway is supposedly being rewritten and supposedly will release a new version sometime in the unknown distant future. EverWeb is another that may have this type of drag and drop ability also but I am actually unsure. If you wish or need to go that route Sparkle is a current option, with the next version of FreewayPro or whatever it will be be called as another option.

I would still personally recommend: Blocs or Pinegrow Pro. Or even a combo of using Blocs + Pinregrow Pro , as a better way to move forward from Muse, if you can come to grips with not having the exact organic drag and drop ideal.

But the next version of Blocs (version 3) may also have some type of more organic drag and drop as the developer mentioned it briefly, it may not be at its initial release but perhaps one of the subsequent version 3 updates. I think it was also suggested for Pinegrow and certain things are already in place in version 4 to begin to allow that to happen. So perhaps at some point it too will offer more organic based drag and drop features.

Both Blocs and Pinegrow currently offer web based CMS solutions also. There are many flat file open source based CMS solutions available as well that can be implemented.

[Duncan Wilcox]

I would still personally recommend: Blocs or Pinegrow Pro.

While many Muse users will find themselves at home with either of those, Sparkle (I am a developer) has the advantage of being end-to-end visual, and we are committed to keeping it that way.

How can one tool be more visual than another? I wrote something here about just that: https://sparkleapp.com/blog/how-visual-is-your-website-builder.html

Not everybody thinks in code/symbols, visual thinkers should try out Sparkle.

Duncan

[W_J_T]

You quoted me, but forgot this portion of my statement.

• Yes, Sparkle has the ability for organic drag and drop and manipulation similar to a page layout app or similar to Muse.
• If you wish or need to go that route Sparkle is a current option

Sorry that you feel I am not allowed to speak beyond that.

Happy Easter.

[prohászkac52338044]

Hello

My developer team and I have decided that we would like to develop a MUSE compatible software, that would replace MUSE, if there is enough interest. I’m creating a petition to see if there is any.

Story time.

As a lot of you, we have built our company around MUSE partly. About two years ago we have invested time and money to develop this branch. We were stunned when we saw the news that ADOBE has announced the discontinuation of the software, that I regard as a unique solution, even if it has its own faults.

When we decided to develop this branch of the company, we have investigated different software products. Some of those has never worked quite as well as MUSE, others had restrictions about where one could keep his or her site, or they were more expensive than MUSE, or there were not enough components to choose from etc. Personally I liked the widget system very much, as a user, I liked the simplicity and freedom it offered, which were supported by MUSE as a framework.

According to what ADOBE disclosed, they are going to support MUSE for another year.

But how am I supposed to build a site with it now, if I know full well that it is going to close down. How much work will it be to move the site? How much wasted money, how many widgets will I lose?

Someone asked why don’t we build the software again? A MUSE compatible software. We have spent the following days investigating the question, if it is possible and if yes, how exactly.

Goals

• A interface that is very similar to MUSE, with very similar abilities, with a non-WEB based program.
• Being able to read files that were created by MUSE. As much compatibility as possible.
• To be able to use widgets that were created for MUSE as usual
• To be able to use templates used in MUSE as usual
• To be able to use the new software on both Mac and Windows platforms 

Non-Goals

• Compatibility with other ADOBE products (e.g Photoshop) or files created by such programs (e.g .psd files)
• Drag and drop capability from other ADOBE products
• To implement libraries, fonts, and other licenced content into our product.

Long term goals

• Expand the widget API, to help widget builders foremost.
• To create the ability for php files and http cookies to connect and manage databases. This would give the opportunity to developers to create more robust backends.

Realization, risks

• According to our calculations, we can reliably develop the software. It would take about 12 months to reach beta. (By the time ADOBE pulls support)
• After the beta, It would take another year to finish the product.
• It would take about 2000 supporters to be able to get started on the development of the project.
• We intend the start a crowd-funding campaign to cover some of the costs of development. It costs 280 dollars to pay for a year of ADOBE MUSE. For the program we intend to develop, you can subscribe for 100 dollars a year, in our Indiegogo campaign.
• The more people supports our campaign, the more resources would we have available to us, lowering the risks.
• For your information, we are a Hungarian company. The company has been founded seven years ago, and we have been developing software ever since.
  (Wesselenyi Rendszerhaz Ltd. – www.whaz.hu – the site is in hungarian)

Who should sign the petition

• With this petition, we intend to see how many serious supporters we have. If we attain 2000 supporters, we will start the Indiegogo campaign.
• Please only sign the petition if you seriously consider paying 100 dollars a year for the yearly subscription.

I hope we will have a successful campaign, and we can create a software that will replace MUSE. You can go to this address to sign the petition:

https://www.change.org/p/office-whaz-hu-let-s-make-a-muse-compatible-software-that-would-replace-it

Thank you for reading this petition. – Wesselenyi Rendszerhaz Ltd. team -

[W_J_T]

prohászkac52338044  wrote

Realization, risks

• According to our calculations, we can reliably develop the software. It would take about 12 months to reach beta. (By the time ADOBE pulls support)
• After the beta, It would take another year to finish the product.
• It would take about 2000 supporters to be able to get started on the development of the project.
• We intend the start a crowd-funding campaign to cover some of the costs of development. It costs 280 dollars to pay for a year of ADOBE MUSE. For the program we intend to develop, you can subscribe for 100 dollars a year, in our Indiegogo campaign.
• The more people supports our campaign, the more resources would we have available to us, lowering the risks.

Who should sign the petition

• With this petition, we intend to see how many serious supporters we have. If we attain 2000 supporters, we will start the Indiegogo campaign.
• Please only sign the petition if you seriously consider paying 100 dollars a year for the yearly subscription.

I applaud your initiative, but what about the risks to those people whom support / fund it ?

Macaw was a great example of this danger.

2,752 backers pledged $275,929

Macaw: The Code-Savvy Web Design Tool by Macaw — Kickstarter

Those 2,752 spent money and received a unfinished buggy product, the company sold out and ceased to exist, the supporters were left with empty promises. Not a good return on investment at all.

Wappler is another crowd funded project with unknowns, but it is backed by DMXzone so maybe better odds than Macaw.

With Muse users already not feeling good regarding the investing of their time, money and effort into and with Adobe Muse, I ask what is the assurance to them, if any from you?

Again I applaud your initiative but that aspect should be seriously considered by Muse users.

[bartl]

My developer team and I have decided that we would like to develop a MUSE compatible software, that would replace MUSE, if there is enough interest

It IS intersting, indeed. I signed. W_J_T has some interesting and reasonable points, though.

My request: do not forget a sort of inbrowser editing, or even better, CMS.

[Cy233]

@prohászkac52338044

The best thing about Macaw was that it was both free-flow in design (like Photoshop, InDesign and Muse) and yet it translated all the absolute positioning into box-model semantic code. Perfect.

Even though the Muse team managed to clean the code somewhat, Muse stuck with absolute positioning which increasingly became a complex mess that couldn't keep up with all the changes in the modern WebSphere.

If I recall correctly (?) I think Macaw allowed you to name/select classes? That's all the code anyone need perform. The user inputs an element, gives it a class name -- and/or select an existing class -- and that's it, the foundation of semantic code.

My point: I WOULD fully support a free-flow editor that produced box-model semantic code but I WOULDN'T support a new editor that was simply going to replicate the absolute positioning technique that got Muse into all of its trouble.

[W_J_T]

Cy233  wrote

If I recall correctly (?) I think Macaw allowed you to name/select classes? That's all the code anyone need perform. The user inputs an element, gives it a class name -- and/or select an existing class -- and that's it, the foundation of semantic code.

I think you are recalling correctly, concerning Macaw. You can still download it for free if you like, but its abandoned since 2016.

Pinegrow is similar to the features aspect you speak of and may eventually allow for more complete organic drag and drop and manipulations within this same workflow and in conjunction with the CSS Visual Editor. The core ground work is already in place now in the current version to head in that direction. The developer has stated that is the direction they are heading towards with such a feature, but it will be done in a correct code structured and maintainable way.

How to quickly create CSS rules in Pinegrow - YouTube

[Paul R Johnson]

I got the info about BC closing, and wasn't worried as I didn't use it - BUT - missed this Muse closure totally.

Worse still is I have been migrating TO Muse from another platform, and haven't even finished yet. I cannot get on at all with Wordpress, and have just about got efficient with my time on Muse. What do I do - stop using it now and migrate before the site is even fully functioning. Plus the 5 other sites waiting to migrate have no destination now - moving to Muse knowing I have to move away again at some point makes no sense.

This is the second time Adobe have done this. I invested thousands in a virtual studio product. Adobe bought them, integrated a tiny portion of the product into premiere, and dumped the virtual studio software, eventually turning off the authentication server so that a change of computer killed it totally. Now they have done it again. Oh sorry - I forgot Encore, which they also ditched, and they left the playing field saying it's fine - encore 6 will still work. They take the subscription, but when you have invested very heavily in a rental type product it kills you to be dumped. The hours of work they have now inflicted on everyone is inexcusable and there is nothing we can do.  I reckon it's three weeks solid work totally wasted, that will have to be started again from scratch. That's lot of money wasted and I don't know where I will find the time.

As PT Barnum said there's a sucker born every minute, and it was me!

P

[rexmaxphoto]

Any updates from Preran regarding his taking the collection of our posts to the team for discussion? Would love to hear some good news!

[N_A_T]

The silence probably means that they are under instruction to say nothing further either so that the reaction dies down or they formulate a response.  I am not holding my breath for a positive reaction to our concerns.

[Preran]

I do not have anything new to say that I have not already shared with all of you here. I will definitely come back and post here if I have anything new to say or add.

Thanks,

Preran

[Lonnie_Kunkel]

@Preran there is another thread with concerns about BC not letting someone update their Muse site. I really hope this isn't going to effect all of us who have sites hosted with BC that need regular updating.

[Preran]

I have replied to the post. There shouldn't be any issues publishing to BC until its EOS date. The user is probably trying to create trial sites, which I think aren't supported any more.

Thanks,

Preran

[Ericorlan]

Well Preran - actually, even if you're publishing to an existing site hosted by BC you now get a message saying 'Business Cayalyst hosting is no longer supported.' It will still publish but getting warning threats like this while trying publish updated to an existing site makes it feel like you're just rolling the dice with an unreliable host.

The last thing we need is added stress from a company like Adobe that has already recently made itself very clear to be unreliable and pretty hostile to its existing customers.

The fact that you are the rep Adobe chose to answer questions and but are utterly in the dark on literally everything is unreassuring to say the least and speaks volumes about Adobe's indifference.

[Preran]

In my opinion, the message must be to get users to migrate websites to another hosting provider before the EOS date. I will check with the team today and let you know if I am mistaken in my assumption.

[juchis2009]

Hi Prenann,

Just want to confirm my thoughts, since I have a couple of sites that where done in muse back in 2011/2012 and are still up and working fine, am I to understand that unless there are some mayor changes in browsers and OS, my muse program will not only still work but I will still be able to publish sites? I will just not get any new updates, but still will have customer support on the program in case there are errors due to the program? Also is there a possibility in heaven that Adobe reverses the decicion made?

[Preran]

Your understanding is correct, yes. The team will fix any OS-related issues until the EOS date as also fix critical bugs that renders the software or sites created with it unusable (for a majority of the users).

At this stage, it is not very likely that the decision is likely to be reversed. I wouldn't pin my hopes on it.

[juchis2009]

Thank you, how about after the EOS date, will there be any support if there are related to MUSE not OS?

Since this will help me organize my business, from panic mode to continuing as usual with MUSE, while learning other alternatives, or waiting to see if ADOBE itself comes out with an alternative.

[pziecina]

juchis2009  wrote

Thank you, how about after the EOS date, will there be any support if there are related to MUSE not OS?

Since this will help me organize my business, from panic mode to continuing as usual with MUSE, while learning other alternatives, or waiting to see if ADOBE itself comes out with an alternative.

Forum support is continued by Adobe for all their discontinued desktop products, for a number of years after being discontinued.

[Paul R Johnson]

Has Adobe read the material bursting all over the forums? - I've been receiving Muse email all day today from loads of sources, and I note that you are still actively promoting muse on the Adobe web site - with not a whisper that buying Muse is Caveat Emptor - perhaps, under the circumstances, Adobe should remove it from the site - certainly if people are buying it new, not realising it's been abandoned.

[N_A_T]

Thanks Preran,

When you do take our feedback to the people that matter, as you said you would, please remind them to be careful about how the marketing of their products aligns with what they project.  Muse is under the creative cloud ... they have just wasted a tonne of what many of us have "created" and by their actions, they are in turn preventing us from creating anything long term with Muse.  They call their marketing product Experience Cloud ... I certainly hope that doesn't align with the experience that we've had this week!

[welshonemillion]

Hi Preran,

My name is John - I teach in an art school.

In any group of students I've taught, there are always some who really really want to learn web programming.

And there are always some who don't.

I've been interested in Muse for a while as it appears to allow people who don't want to learn to code to create websites with what is really a very good level of control of layout / interactivity / animation etc and place their work online.

At the very least it lets people get started creating very functional and well designed websites via an interface with which they're already familiar having learned Photoshop / Illustrator / InDesign.

In some cases, using Muse provides people with the confidence to go beyond the tools provided by Muse software and learn to program websites / move on to Dreamweaver even if they wouldn't necessarily have done so otherwise.

Some people are web designers and some people just need a web presence.

And of course Muse can and has been used very happily as a commercial tool in its own right.

If Muse is to be discontinued as an application I wondered if its feature set (which is really very valuable in my opinion) could please be integrated within InDesign to expand upon its abilities as a web publishing tool ?

When I look at articles like these -

https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/indesign/how-to/self-publishing-online.html

https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/using/publish-online.html

it seems to me that at the very least some of Muse functionality would seem quite at home if repurposed within InDesign.

Thanks for your time.

Kind regards,

John