Closing Muse ? Are you serious over there ?

[Erotokritos]

Helloooooo! Over there, are you listening to me?

I think you have to take a close look to stopping support of the Muse project.

We have spent a lot of time learning how to use Muse, we have created a large number of customers with websites through Mouse, and we continue.

If you respect your customers, you should think again.

Muse is not Flash to have security issues or its works not supported by browsers. Although the flash continues, the name is changed to Animate.

Please respect us and continue the good work on Muse.

God bless America.

Erik

[Lonnie_Kunkel]

You do know you're just giving us extra work to do that we won't get paid for, right? I'm going to have to change all my sites away from the Muse platform, which means extra hours and more work that I can't really deal with. So now I have to work nights and weekends, without pay, to redesign all the client sites I've designed with Muse. I luckily, if you can say that, have only one client using Business Catalyst and they are going to be pissed. So thanks for pissing off my clients and costing me money.

I'm a CC customer and after this I will be switching to Quarkxpress from Indesign and any other programs I can find to replace Photoshop and Illustrator.

You just lost a loyal customer.

[juchis2009]

We dont want  an Alternative, thats not the resolve. There are many of us that have spent a lot of time invested in learning this program (being in the beta testing program) as well as invested a lot of money in different widgets and templates, There are some that even have complete online business dedicated to selling muse widgets and templates. Not to mention the thousands of clients we have all sold tto us doing their sites in ADOBE MUSE, and being able to edit the sites in inbrowser editing. AND NOW WHAT, we all look like fools, unprofesional bafoons, how can we now even consider doing a site in muse if WE know it will not work or it might not work in a year or two, or how about when we get a call, that something doesnt work in a year and its because of a glitch in the program and now guess what no one is working on it, what do we tell the client "So sorry you need a new site" really in a new "ALTERNATIVE" system we don't know as well.

I have been using Adobe products since Adobe first started, yes with all the programs all of them, and for the first time in over 27 years, I am seriously considering alternatives for all, since I feel the direction you are choosing to become for web design like a WIX, or WEEBLY is not in a designers best interest, it doesn't allow for the freedom of creation, further more you are seriously in separation with your customers, you are not heearing us. And please don't insult our intelligence with saying that you are observing market trends, or that you dont know where else to take MUSE, MUSE is not yet a finished product there is so much more that it can still be added to it and grow it just like you've done with Illustrator, seriously illustrator has not changed by leaps in bounds either in many years, nor has indesign and photoshop for that matter, but they are still around.

PLEASE RECONSIDER, I THINK YOU HAVE JUST MADE MANY MANY CUSTOMERS VERY ANGRY AND DISSAPOINTED, AND THAT CAN NOT BE IN ADOBES BEST INTEREST.

[bernwa]

Excellent reply!  Very good point on other Adobe products basically staying the same for years.  Muse is the most useful app you have.  I will be exploring options and terminating my Adobe membership shortly after.  This is just appalling!

[Mark Levans]

You guys are nuts! Adobe should rethink this. Like all decisions at big corporations--it probably has something to do with the cost. If you aren't making money, then away it goes.

PLEASE RECONSIDER. For the first time (and I have been with you guys since you started) I am extremely disappointed.  Do not stop developing and supporting MUSE!!

[BednaBox]

i feel sick to my stomach! Adobe is just looking on their stock value and give a s#%^* about people! Muse is/was great product for us non-coders. Closing Muse will affect so many small designers and even big widget developers. If you would put effort and money to develop Muse you would have your money making platform! Well, shame on you Adobe! And the alternative suggestions - you have to be kidding! Spark? Instead of Spark development if you put resources to develop Muse - you would not have dispair and disdain of Adobe users. Many of us will look into other alternatives - how to be able to give up CC. cheers - NOT.

[REally twisted with adobe]

Your alternatives all suck.  I am biting the bullet to learn Dreamweaver but the total disregard for your customers here with no actual intelligent explanation sounds very mean spirited.  Please don't write crap that tells us nothing.  Muse needs to live on.  Adobe is looking like the worst company alive right now who doesn't care about causing severe financial hardship to most Muse users.  You get paid to say nothing Preran but we have to now eat a lot of money to keep our clients' sites up to date.  Again I have been with Adobe since Illustrator 88 probably longer than you have been alive.  You have a job becasue designers like me took a chance on this company.  We built your business by using your software and now you can not even give us respect by keeping a very decent web tool alive.  Shame on you. And what disturbs me the most is nobody at Adobe gives a damn.  I hope you reverse this decision. Sadly this is a product I make a lot of my living with and you have really caused me and others huge financial stress

[cloudninedesign]

I, too, have been with Adobe and remember using Illustrator 88...and this decision to scrap Muse and leave us all hanging is just low down. Really, "low down" is putting it mildly. I have designed over 100 Muse site and now am left with egg on my face with all of my clients. What do I tell them after I sold them on Muse and Business Catalyst? Adobe is effectively killing my professional reputation and I am FURIOUS. The more I think about what Adobe has done to me and my business, the more furious I become. If anyone starts a class action lawsuit, I'M IN. Every designer that bought into Adobe's lies about Muse and has to now invest considerable time and money to redesign sites and learn a new platform needs to be compensated.

[davereid]

Sorry but that is a useless set of answers. We can continue to keep using Muse after a year, sure if we keep paying for the CC subscription fees. Why would I pay for a unsupported abandoned product?

Adobe has screwed it's customers absofreakinglutely with this terribly FOOLISH decision. This business practice of releasing a product, getting people to build a business around, and then pulling the rug out from underneath them completely screwing their business, is not right, it is not ethical, and it must not stand. I have no use for apologies.

The only apology that is acceptable is sorry we made a mistake and will continue support to this product that you have been happily taking craploads of your money for. Muse was the only reason I subscribed to CC. It seems to me I am owed a refund for the last 3 years of subscription fees at a minimum.

I will never again base anything I do on Adobe because you have just told us loud and clear you cannot be trusted. I am disgusted with this decision and this way of doing business, it is SIMPLY UNACCEPTABLE.

[Beachcolonist]

And they just reported record profits.

[Lonnie_Kunkel]

A reply to Praran's message:

------------

Hi Lonnie,

I have said this on the forums, and I am assuring you here that we are capturing all feedback and sharing it with the team.

Thanks,

Preran

--------------

Muse users are livid, Preran. You are taking away a source of income and our reputations by discontinuing a product that we rely on -- that our clients rely on. Capturing feedback and sharing is an understatement. It's not enough, Preran​ -- We need some answers now.

[oscarrotten]

Adobe will be losing all of my business at this point. This isn’t how you handle a situation like this and going forward I will not put my professional eggs in adobes basket. My IT company has been dealing with the best venders in the D.C. area for 30 years and short of companies going belly up I have never experienced this before. I am glad there are so many other platforms for our creative needs today. You are doing you loyal customers a disservice and to be honest you have permanently blemished the adobe name in our companies eyes.

[CourtneyHerz]

I think it's worth realizing that when you say "third-party alternatives", that's not only a nearly impossible feat for some given the size of the businesses they've grown with Muse, but it's also another way of saying "pay more money". Sure, we can look at Webflow or other products, but in most cases, that's doubling what many of us pay for All Apps. That's....kind of the point of All Apps. It's worth it because there are so many functionalities that exist across the span of the product base.

This isn't a matter of "here are some alternatives". This is costing many people a lot of unbillable time and a lot of wasted money that will be extremely difficult to recover - if they can at all.

But here is the larger issue.

People are losing faith in Adobe. I'm fortunate in that only a small part of my business so far is on Muse, and it's easy enough for me to continue using Dw and "find alternatives", even though that's stupidly expensive when I shouldn't have to be forced to do that in the first place. But even for those of us who weren't as deeply harmed by this as others, we're scared, too. What if we wake up to find that Adobe pulled Photoshop overnight? What if InDesign just goes away?

You've got a lot of people really scared and losing faith in what we thought was a solid, secure, and reliable base of products.

Please do not simply brush us off with "here are some alternatives". We really deserve answers as to why this happened in the first place (and "because: shareholders" is not good enough for us), and I think it would behoove Adobe to have an open forum where CC members can voice concerns and get real, actual answers.

If people continue to feel that they can't rely on Adobe products to be there tomorrow, you won't have to worry about your shareholders because you won't have a company left. "Mass exodus" is not the kind of words you want to hear surrounding your products, but it's already happening.

I know that you are not personally responsible for this, but as a representative of Adobe I think it's at least worth your time to take these comments back and have a serious conversation that extends beyond "what are their alternatives."

Trust me. If this keeps up, you won't have to tell us what the alternatives are. We will find them. 😕

I really love Adobe products, but I, and so many others, simply cannot afford to build businesses that rely on programs that may or may not be there tomorrow.

Please think about it.

[Beachcolonist]

[abuse removed]

Here we have upset users, but Adobe surely ran the math before killing the product. They no doubt have execs who made the case better than you do

[abuse removed]

[CourtneyHerz]

I don't think it's overly personalized when I can scroll through pages and pages of people saying the same thing. I am a business owner, not some naive user who's mad because a product went away. I'd imagine that's also true of those expressing nearly identical concerns in the aforementioned pages of comments.

[N_A_T]

Courtney, I hear your pain (not just as a business owner but also as the systems person in all my businesses).  I received an email from Muse Themes today - they had put a note up about their new product a couple of weeks ago ... and ironically it was an alternative to Muse (not that they were moving away from Muse at that time).  As I didn't think I needed it, I hadn't investigated it further ... and today's email confirmed that it is a tool not too dissimilar to Muse.  You should go an check out their offerings to see if it suits you.  I will certainly be looking at it for my businesses (not that I want to build websites anymore) ... the guys at Muse Themes have been absolutely professional in everything they've done in the past and have a strong team of players even though they are only small.  It's called Without Code.  They say that it is a totally online product (which is not good for me because I travel a lot and don't always have internet).  Here is the link

Without Code | Code Free Website Design

[N_A_T]

No, her response wasn't long winded, nor naive, nor overly personalised ... nor was it a critique ... it was an opinion on the state of the Adobe universe.  Out of respect, I have read most of the articles in this and other threads over the last few days as everyone deserves the right to voice their pain.  Running the math and presenting a better case to the Adobe execs does not make the opinion of bean counters and analysts any more acceptable than our comments.  As a business owner, I will not take the figures as gospel when making decisions about how I go forward ... there are other factors that have an impact on the business other than money.  If you don't have the faith of your customer, you don't have a business and if you don't have marketing ... well ... you have nothing.  We are customers - all telling Adobe that we no longer have faith in any of their products to continue - they need to listen as we are all scrambling to find a way ahead without them.

Being an accountant, a systems accountant and software architect, I know that that the figures presented are often a distorted version of reality - there are very few sets of accounts that truly and accurately reflect where a company is at any moment in time and there are always ways to fudge them.  I have seen people code costs to projects to make them look less profitable than others ... and the stories I could tell you about things that I have seen in all the industries I have worked in ... but I wouldn't want to bore you. 

My guess is that somebody probably wanted Muse killed off and the HOD's want to look good in the eyes of the shareholders in future years as their projections have probably told them that it's going to get bumpy due to the costs of Experience Cloud initiatives.  When one of our airlines reported major losses a while back, it was strategically announced at the time they had issues with the unions ... they wrote down assets, wrote off debts, prepaid expenses, held back revenue, shifted money to offshore entities, adjusted for unfavourable exchange rates, fuel rebates and subsidies, etc, etc ... all technically legal, but it was strategic so that they had bargaining power with unions ... once the union issue was over with, they reversed the accruals and they were back to mega profit again (surprise, surprise).

It's time that businesses did the right thing ... that they were held accountable in all ways ... that the people put in charge have the appropriate business pedigree to be running these companies / corporations.  I can't tell you the number of businesses I know of where they don't even know how to read a Profit & Loss or Balance Sheet ... let alone understand what all of the categories mean and what the overall position of the business is. 

Please don't assume that we don't know all about business, finance and corporate decision making because we may even have a far broader view of the world than you.  Ok ... now you can tell me that I was ranting, because that's what was needed to be said to someone who decided to be critical of a person who was here in these forums feeling the pain that the rest of us are feeling.

[philipcopitch]

I have invested a lot of time and capital into Muse. Investing more time into a dying web platform is just more money and energy down the drain. 1/3 of my subscription is Muse. I think I heard that my membership was going up...seems unfair.

I have websites with hundreds of hours into building them. What will I have to give up over the next year to redo these sights?

I have lost trust in Adobe. I felt like I was part of a community. No longer.

I wish I didn't need Photoshop so I could end this painful relationship with Adobe.

Adobe has lost a raving fan.

[dannygarber]

Affinity Photo.

[michaels47679471]

Peran,

Why wasn't a migration strategy included with xd for muse developers?

[dabach]

I don’t have time for all that

I wasted way too much already. No matter how they explain it, this is not ok.

Sent from my iPhone

[dannyw94247594]

This "update to a new method" philosophy is a narrow developer-minded tactic.  Developers get bored and want to change everything.  This is exactly the way they waste consumers and professionals time and creativity.  Its the same with HD video and DSRL cameras.  Every couple years years developers make a whole new way to operate a camera and effectively toss all brain power used to learn a process into the toilet bc someone who knows how EVERYTHING WORKS got new idea and wants to change it.  Its idiotic.  Its a great way to anger your customer base.  I speak to pro users, DPs and camera operators who absolutely hate the techies bc they don't use the product and they certainly NEVER ask them how they should make a camera.  My guess is the powers that be in development don't waste their time with Muse--it's too easy.  So, they hate it and make something else that gives them wood.  Why not develop what you have into something better--in stages?  It's the nerds revenge.  "Oh yeah you're not gonna be able to use this new App--it's harder for sure"  The hours I spent making a website you just decided "too bad, thats done"  Well, I hope you don't send me elsewhere

[jazz4ever]

Dear Preran,

Apologize and alternative are not part of the solution.

I pay a subscription in USD$, meaning a plus 25% in CND$ coming very expensive.

If I loose Muse, Adobe will reduce subscription price ? Don't try to answer, I think I know it.

Muse is one of the software I use the most, so go back in the conference room and tell the team to reverse this decision.

[cgcreator]

Adobe. I may not understand your choice to discontinue your product muse. I do however feel that since you seem to be firm on your decision I have an alternate solution. Since you will be discontinuing support for the product and therefore won't be making any money off of said product. Why not release the product source code and turn it into a freeware program? Take google android, chrome os, firefox and open office for example. Because of their free nature they have become some of the most cutting edge and benefitial products out there. They have forced the competition to rise to the challenge therefore improving all users experiences.

Since you don't want to take responsibility for the product anymore, allow us to. Please submit this for us Preran

[markw88595382]

I agree with everyone else here Muse has become the most valuable tool since photoshop in my production and business please do not

discontinue this product you've taken MX Director away along with other stuff and you keep coming up with crap programmes like Spark and XD and other things that will never compete with the like's of Wordpress and other self design website crap.

Muse works really well for designers Adobe is supposed to be about designers THINK or I'll never use another adobe product ever.

Mark Wells

MA Interactive interface Computer Design.

[AlieHH]

Hi,

The above is not entirely correct. I have just spent over an hour on the abobe chat trying to renew my yearly subscription for Muse (which is the only app I use) but guess what?... you can't so actually for the unlucky few of us who's renewal date is coming up we cannot renew so we cannot continue using it. The only way to continue using muse until 2019 is if you buy that all-apps subscription which is way more expensive!

Not a happy customer here!