P: Interprets colors differently than Photoshop 2017

[alanterra]

[Edited: No one has commented on, or perhaps even read, my post below, which means that I can still edit it. So I changed the title from the more sanguine "Photoshop CC 2018 interprets Vibrance/Saturation layer differently than CC 2017."

I think that this bug is a complete show-stopper. If Photoshop 2018 changes the colors, and the effect of flattening, compared to Photoshop 2017 and earlier versions, then I can't use it. And I find it surprising that others can use it, at least on images that were edited with earlier versions.

Perhaps I am being overly shrill — I would love it if someone would check out and confirm or deny that this is a widespread bug.

My original post follows.]

I installed Photoshop CC 2018 (Macintosh, Sierra v. 10.12.6) and I find that the colors displayed in a file are different than they are in Photoshop CC 2017. This makes it impossible for me to use Photoshop CC 2018.

I have a test file with two layers — an image and a Vibrance/Saturation layer. The file is in 8-bit Pro Photo. I have one color sampler in it (set to 5 x 5 in both versions of the program). If I turn on the Vibrance/Saturation layer, the colors are much less saturated in PS CC 2018 than in PS CC 2017. There are also small differences in hue. The following table shows the differences seen:

This difference can also be seen visually, and if you show out-of-gamut (CMYK gamut) colors the areas shown are different between the two programs. And, if you flatten this image, the values shown in the two versions of the Photoshop above are "baked into" the file — which means that the difference I am seeing is not a difference in reporting HSB values, but is a difference in interpreting a Vibrance/Saturation layer.

The file, and versions flattened in PS CC 2017 and PS CC 2018 can be found at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/35yds87iocpglup/AAAd-QVKoztY2HDxonkgxXQca?dl=0

It would be great if someone else could test this bug report and see if it can be replicated on other machines.

[joshbyers24]

I have also experienced this. Images are over saturated and like you said it makes the program nearly unusable.

This first image is opened in PS 2017. The second image is what happens when I open the same image in PS 2018. No adjustments or changes have been made. It looks like that on open.

[J453]

Hi Alan, your files were helpful. I am seeing the difference in values between 2017 > 2018. I'll have the engineers take a look. Will let you know if we need anything else

[alanterra]

Well, that is fascinating, Josh. What I see is exactly the opposite — colors are much less saturated in PS CC 2018 than PS CC 2017:
This is PS 2017:

and this is PC CC 2018:


Your example suggests that the calculation of colors in general has changed, not just the Vibrance/Saturation layers.

Would you be able to post this document (a crop if you are worried about copying) somewhere so we can see the differences ourselves?

Thanks for the report. This is making me very nervous -- if there has been a fundamental change in Photoshop's color algorithms, everything I have created pre PS CC 2018 will be different if I upgrade.

A

[joshbyers24]

So, as I dove in a little deeper the color values according to info panel are exactly the same but the program is obviously interpreting that color differently. I'm looking at this on the same monitor. 

I figured it was maybe a preference switch or something but I can't find anything that would relate displaying the color differently.

Here is the link to the file I opened: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mml6ltedeer2u7w/judges-of-israel.png?dl=0

Here are a couple more screenshots for reference:

[alanterra]

Hi Josh

Thanks for the clarification. You are displaying a png file, which makes it clear (at least to my muddled mind) that your issue is different than my issue. My issue is that the same layered file is interpreted differently. The bottom image is the same, but as layers are applied (at least, a Vibrance/Saturation layer), the colors diverge between the images. In your case, there is but one layer, and PS reports the same color values, but displays them differently.

I would first look into something in the preferences being different. I wasn't 100% careful when I installed PS CC 2018, but while I thought that I clicked "keep preferences from older version" I did see some preferences had changed.

You could walk through (again!) all the preferences and see if there are differences, but what I find easiest in situations like this is to create a new user in System Preferences:Users and Groups. When you launch PS in a new user, PS should create default preferences for both PS 2017 and PS 2018. Then you can see if there is a difference in displaying your file. (Copy your test file into the Users/Shared folder to access it from the new user).

The other thing you could do is go to Creative Collection app and uninstall PS 2018, and make sure that you delete the preferences when you delete the app. Then reinstall PS 2018 and make sure you check "bring over preferences from earlier version" (not sure of the exact wording).

Anyway, I would bet (at least 25¢) that your problem is PS CC 2018 preferences being different from PS CC 2017, and that your issue is unrelated to my report.

Good luck!

A

[joshbyers24]

Hey Allen, thanks for the advice. I first created a new user and tested out the programs and the issue went away. So that assumes that it is indeed a preference issue. I went back to my normal user and scoured the preferences one by one, side by side, and visually nothing was different.
I then uninstalled PS2018 and reinstalled and the issue has gone away.

So thanks for the help! Though I still wish I knew exactly what the issue was.

Interestingly enough, when I installed 18 the first time I removed 17 at the same time. When I started having issues I re-downloaded 17. That makes me question the preferences issue as all the preferences from 17 would've been gone or carried over the first time I installed 18. Weird.

For what its worth. I tried to replicate your issue with the new copy of 18 and I could not. Hope it gets solved for you.

Thanks again.

[alanterra]

Great. Glad you could solve your problem. I think you owe me 25¢ 😉

FWIW, by default, when you uninstall 2017, the preferences are not deleted, so when you later reinstall, you get back those preferences, not the default preferences. But it depends on which buttons you pushed when you did that. (And if you are like me, you have no idea what you did 20 minutes ago, let alone 2 weeks ago).

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I agree with you, I see colors as much less saturated after the update. I need to go back to the previous version.

[J453]

Can you run a quick test for me? If you're on Windows, quit Photoshop, go to the application folder and navigate to Required>Plug-Ins>Extensions>HalideBottlenecks.plugin. On Mac, right click on the Photoshop app, choose Show Package Contents, and navigate to Plug-Ins>Extensions>HalideBottlenecks.plugin. Put a tilde infront of the plug-in's name to disable it.

Try running Photoshop and check your colors. Are they correct? 

[alanterra]

Hi Jeffrey

I had to reinstall PS 2018 in order to check.

I turned off the extension, and it had no effect on the colors.

To confirm, I'm on Macintosh and I added a tilde to the following file (not quite the same path as you indicated):

/Applications/Adobe Photoshop CC 2018/Adobe Photoshop CC 2018.app/Contents/Required/Plug-ins/Extensions/~HalideBottlenecks.plugin

Alan

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

That's a fairly significant difference in saturation you're seeing. Here on my Mac I've tried several images, including creating a graphic image with saturated colors, and I can't see a difference side-by-side, nor does the Info panel. Now I'm curious. I don't want something like that to sneak up behind my back.

[alanterra]

Hi Cristen.

Did you download my TIFF and try it? If so, did you get the same HSB values or different values?

I was quite surprised when I saw this, and I saw the effect on many images (as part of a project I am working on).

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Okay, this is just weird. Your file shows a significant difference in saturation. My own file shows no difference.

[alanterra]

Yes, I agree, "this is just weird." All I can say is that I am working on a project of photos of flowers, and in general, as I edit them, they get more and more saturated. At the end, I add a layer of Vibrance/Saturation to control that, and for most of these photos I get a big difference between PS 2017 and PS 2018. Obviously, I am working in some kind of "space" where the differences between PS 2017 and PS 2018 are manifested, and your photo is not in that space.

Of course, if I had first transformed to L*ab, I probably wouldn't be having this issue, but it would be a lot of work to redo my 2,000+ photos now. And, in any event, I don't think any user of Photoshop expects colors to shift when a new version comes out.

I suspect that Adobe must have some regression tests when they bring out a new version of Photoshop, to confirm that it interprets files the same as previous versions. (They must, right???) And, probably, their photos are like your photo, and no shift was evident.

A

[J453]

When I disabled Halide, I now get something that matches:



Did you restart Photoshop after adding the tilde to the file name?

[alanterra]

Yes, I did restart Photoshop, I'm sure I did. But I'll try again (sometime later) — it is scary how many times I have made stupid mistakes like that.

[alanterra]

I did restart PS.

What you are showing me here is that on your machine, PS 2017 is now showing the same values as PS 2018 (the same values I get for PS 2018). So somehow, you have changed PS 2017.

I get Saturation 85% for PS 2017, and 66% for PS 2018, you (here) get 66% for both.

Or was I supposed to disable Halide for PS 2017?

A

[alanterra]

To follow up, I am completely confused. I just confirmed, I get 85% for PS 2017. If you look at Cristin's screenshots, she gets different values, 66% for PS 2017, and 93% for PS 2018.

[J453]

Yeah. I'm confused now, too. I'll revisit this with engineering in the AM with a fresh brain.

[PhotoshopScripting]

Hi Alan, I've been looking into this case today. The color sampler stayed constantly different between PS 2017 and PS 2018, regardless the Halide on/off state. I had made sure to align the color policies across the two versions, since your file has an embedded profile, still the numbers continued to be different. But right now I un-installed/re-installed PS 2018, and I get similar values, to my dismay. Just wanted to add this extra-detail to the already confusing story. Thank you, we'll talk more tomorrow.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

> photos of flowers, and in general, as I edit them, they get more and more saturated.>

You're only human. Working with photos is like eating chilies. You build up a tolerance for an excess of color and contrast.

I don't know what they do. Visually, there isn't enough difference in the flower you show that most people not using numbers would be all that likely to pick it up, but what engineers might do is beyond me, though I assume to test is likely more rigorous than a visual perusal. After seeing your file, I wondered why mine didn't demonstrate it. We're missing a piece to this puzzle.

I have other issues now that I've given up on resolving my problems with Bridge—way too much uninstalling, clearing prefs, reinstalling for my liking—but it's about time I did that with PS to make sure I'm working with a good clean copy. If my results with this change after I clean it up again tomorrow, I'll report back. I'll also try with other files just to see if it isn't all over the map.

[Earth Oliver]

The files are identical for me in 2017 and 2018. Are you all sure that you're not converting to another profile without asking when you open ProPhoto?

[Earth Oliver]

Check your Color Settings and make sure neither CC is converting without asking...

[alanterra]

Hi Domnita

So, I uninstalled PS CC 2017 including its preferences, and then reinstalled it over night, and now it is showing the same values as PS CC 2018 (not the values I got in PS CC 2017 yesterday).

But the strange thing is, if I copy yesterday's preferences (from a Time Machine backup) back into the ~/Library/Preferences/Adobe Photoshop CC 2017 Settings folder, it still continues to show the PS CC 2018 values, not the values it was showing yesterday.

Don't ask me why, but I also have a copy of PS CS 6, and it is showing the values that PS CC 2017 did yesterday.

So, in summary, PS CC 2018, always, and PS CC 2017, today, show a Saturation of 66, while PS CS 6, always, and PS CC 2017, yesterday and before, show a Saturation of 85.

There are other tests I can run, but they will take some time, and, since bad luck is autocorrelated, my AT&T internet service has slowed to a crawl, so deleting and reinstalling software is taking hours when it should take minutes.

I'd love to hear what you find out, if you can figure this out better. Right now my guess is that there is an obscure setting, not in the "Adobe Photoshop CC 2017 Settings" folder, that is causing this difference. (And, I deleted the few plug-ins I had installed, just in case, and that made no difference).

[PhotoshopScripting]

Hi Alan again, 

Can you please attach the old preferences to the bug report? I hope there are some valuable clues in there. And yes, eartho, I had the same suspicion with the profile, but I could not prove it. Thank you.