Aren't "place linked" items smart objects if "always create smart objects when placing" is checked?

[dDembicki]

Hey smart people:

If the above is true, why won't the app allow me to use "new smart object via copy" on those placed and linked layers?

Specs: PS 2023 on 2019 Intel MBP running OS 13.5 (Ventura). 

I know that if I duplicate my smart objects by using New Smart Object Layer via Copy that will allow me to re-link to different artboards in the original AI file without changing all of the smart obects linked to that one placement. But the option is grayed out.

In this case, it's a linked illustrator file that I need to be in the same place on each PSD layer. There are different artboards (in AI) for each iteration. Each iteration in the AI file is the same size and placement on the artboards. Each iteration goes in the same place in the PSD, hence my wanting to duplicate and relink. The bottom layer in PSD remains the same. 

Once I have all the layers grouped and lined up in PSD, I just export as PNGs to put into ANOTHER AI doc. This ideally keeps me from placing a separate, large, layered PSD file into an AI file for each concept. 

(Why doesn't linking work like AI and InDe where you can copy the linked item and relink it to something else? Instead of changing all the layers using that link?)

What obviously critical information am I missing here that is hampering my ability to understand? I've read the user guide articles but it's not getting through my thick skull... 

Please and thanks in advance. 

[c.pfaffenbichler]

An Embedded Smart Object can be »New Smart Object via Copy«-d because it is contained in the file, creating a second embedded file being a thing happening within Photoshop’s realm. 

A Linked Smart Object is another file on disk. 

If Photoshop were to »New Smart Object via Copy« a Linked SO it would need to create a copy of that file on the Finder-level – that’s not exactly what it is intended to do. 

Anyway, your workflow sound strange to me – if the Linked SO is an ai file why export pngs to be placed in Illustrator again? 

Could you please post screenshots with the pertinent Panels (Toolbar, Layers, Options Bar, …) visible to illustrate the actual process? 

[dDembicki]

I can't post images because of confidentiality. BUT, I will make some time to make demo images. 

The reason for the pngs is to place them back into the presentation doc. I'm an art director in an in-house agency for a grocery retailer, designing private brands package graphics (for print). Here are more details on the workflow: 

1. create concept in AI file, using the dieline for the item. Each concept has its own artboard in one file. Let's call this the Concept file. The artwork is flat, as it would be on a dieline for a flat package. 
2. place a Concept file artboard 1 into another AI file that will be the presentation. Let's call this the Presentation file. This document has a layer that holds example packages for the items being created, say, a box, or standup pouch, or a bag of onions, i.e., a Mockup.
3. place a Concept file artboard onto a separate page showing what it looks like on the dieline. This shows how artwork might wrap around a package.
4. place a Presentation file artboard (the Mockup) into PSD image of shelf set taken in store (to show the client what the design would look like on shelf, next to competitors). 
5. do the above steps with each concept, which is usually duplicating artboards and then relinking to a different artboard in the Concept file, and a different shelf set image. 
6. once all the concepts are in place, save the presentation as a PDF and share for the meeting.

There are a few reasons the concepts are in their own AI file:

First, when there are changes, then I only have to make the changes once, and everything that is linked just needs to be updated. This allows for design elements to align across items and artboards, and I don't have to make the same changes in multiple files, keeping their position on all the pages of the presentation. Also, sometimes, the actual dielines are much larger than the artboard size of the presentation doc (17 x 11in), and it's important to work at 100% to get the visual proportions between design elements correct.

Second, is that page in the presentation showing how the concept looks on a dieline. If I have to lay it out for the dielline, no sense in doing it twice. The same artwork works with both the mockup and the mechanical. Also allows for consistent placement of design elements and across artboards in the presentation file. 

Third, when one of the concepts is picked and needs to go to print production, I can just save out that artboard (which, remember, is using the flat dieline associated with the item at 100%), and then the print production designer can run with it and make sure all the required content is inserted.

Regarding the PSD file with the mockup inserted (the presentation file artboard), it's usually the same in-store image with a different concept from in the Presentation file. The Presentation artboard shows the mockup, which is why it's placed into the PSD. Depending on how many concepts there are, I may have separate PSD shelf set image files.

(Hence wanting to relink, without all the links changing. The only way to do this is to copy smart object via paste, but the linked files needed to be smart objects firstm necessitating the extra step of double clicking on the smart object to change the link. PS calls linked images "smart obects" but they really aren't, if you have to perform that step yourself, despite "make links smart objects" being checked in the settings.)

Yesterday, my shelf set image had 10 concepts (yes 10!, don't ask), and I was attempting to duplicate layers and change out the concepts. Then I intended to hide/show layer groups to export PNGs, to place back into the Presentation file. Each concept was placed into the PSD four times to take up the shelf space in the image. What I ended up doing was making my four linked layers in PSD into one smart object, then copying the smart object using New Smart Object via Copy. Then I could relink, inside the smart object, to a different artboard in the presentaton file.

This worked, but to update the links I had to open the smart object first. That was the step I wanted to eliminate (in my original post) since I had 10 concepts, and each concept had to be placed in the PSD four times. By combining the links into one smart object, I only had to click into each smart object once, update one link to update all four links in the smart object. 

In the end, I started playing around with layer comps, which allowed me to batch export all comps as PNGs, and that saved some time too. I want to explore this function more, as I think it'll come in handy in the future.

It's A LOT simpler than it sounds, LOL, and a bit of an oroboros, but it works for me. When I can get screen shots made I'll update this post, I'm sure that will help explain.

[Earth Oliver]

yes, the way i've always done this sort of workflow is with Layer Comps. Once you set up your master linked psd and the file that it's placed in, automation becomes fairly quick and simple. What also would help, and we've been begging Adobe for a decade, is that Transformations be added as a "smart filter" to the smart objects. That way you could place a new SO and simply copy the transforms from the existing to the new. Adobe moves very, very slowly these days however, and this request will take at least another decade to fulfill.